Which Land Raider?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

But it's funny how often, once you get into the game, the limitations of the other list become apparent. And defiance against the odds is what has marked heros through the ages. Don't you want heroic games? I can't say I've ever enjoyed a walkover. The struggle IS the glory.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't mind persay playing against 2-3 Landraiders at 1,500 points (I play Tau as my other army so taking them out isn't too big a problem), it just makes for a very unconventional battle.

 

If you brought the right tools for the job (ie what I listed before is pretty common), they're not a problem to crack (if you pop smokes they're untouchable but then you can't shoot, so it's kinda helping me out :) ), and then it's basically clean-up of your remaining Troops. If you don't have the right equipment (best example is probably Tyranids, who will have their Flyrant cut down by your God-hammers, and then have basically nothing except Zoanthropes that can threaten you), then it becomes a bit of a turkey shoot. 90% of his firepower (in most armies, not just Nids) is useless (and smokes only prolongs the agony), along with probably over half his army (especially horde armies, who invest in a lot of Troops to win through), who basically have to sit there and take it while he tries to kill you with his anti-tank specialists. The upside for large armies is that each Landraider doesn't have a lot of firepower, in terms of raw shots (I'm speaking of normal LR's here, not Crusaders). God-hammers are awesome but against a 20-30 strong mob of charging Orks they are not going to make much difference, neither is that twin-HB in the hull. You then are faced with the choice of disembarking your precious cargo to shoot them down, or just driving backwards and laughing.

 

So what I'm saying is that depending on how skilled your opponent is, it's going to be a one-sided battle either way.

 

I'd be interested to see how you update the 'Water Tactica', given the changes we've seen in 5th edition.

[Marid]

 

There is a difference between making a list for pick-up games and making a take-no-prisoners list. You won't make a lot of friends with the following:

 

BC

6 IST

6 IST

6 IST

LR

LR

LR

991 points

 

It's totally legal, but if someone pulled that army out at my local shop without fair warning, I'd pack my army up before the first die was thrown. I personally would not feel comfortable playing two LRs at less than 1,500 points.

 

It's funny how perspectives change. When I first started playing my GHLR lists, I was mocked, as Rand Raiders were almost "untouchables" in the minds of many players, and taking them was a sign of being a "noob". Now, a list that stacks Raiders of any type is viewed (by many players) as cheesy and overpowered.

 

This kind of prejudice (and that's what it is) hurts everyone. It hurts the other posters in this thread, because your scorn/distain/whatever shuts down creative thought and experimentation. It hurts other gamers, because people who adopt your view may say unpleasant things to them or refuse them games. And it hurts you because it stifles your growth as a player, and programs you to feel that surrender without effort is acceptable. To paraphrase Mr Hurbert, "prejudice is the mind killer".

 

Now, I don't mean to say that I never have a sinking feeling as I stare across the table at the well oiled killing machine across from me and think "Dear gods, what have I gotten myself into?" That's normal, and healthy. But it's funny how often, once you get into the game, the limitations of the other list become apparent. And defiance against the odds is what has marked heros through the ages. Don't you want heroic games? I can't say I've ever enjoyed a walkover. The struggle IS the glory.

 

Just food for thought.

 

-Silent Requiem

 

Well, to be fair, I took the argument to the absurd. For most players in friendly games, three Land Raiders at 1,000 points would be most un-fun.

[march10k]

I wouldn't call lascannons "reliable" at killing land raiders...you have to hit, then get a 6, then get a 4+...they threaten land raiders when you take a half-dozen or more. Not otherwise.

 

Three land raiders in 1000 points is a bit absurd, but only because it takes up 75% of your points, meaning that the precious cargo inside is useless. And the idea of an enemy being equipped to "handle" THREE of them before his antitank ability is destroyed at the 1000 point level is laughable.

 

But in a larger game, three land raiders with full PAGK squads inside should be quite a powerful army without being unkillable, since what pops out if you manage to destroy the tank is a threat, rather than a joke, while at the same time, the enemy can afford a decent counter to AV14. I know well how effective three land raiders packed with deathwing is at the 1750 point level, I can't imagine the PAGK equivalent being much worse...

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm thinking of trying the new ForgeWorld Twin Linked Psycannon sponsons, over the Traditional TLLC version. I'm not finding Lascannons to be of much anti Tank use.

 

The only Tanks that really need heavy wepaons to bust are opponents Land Raiders, and for AV14, you really need Melta Weapons or 2d6 AP rolls.

 

Other Tanks can either be side armour hit with Psycannons, or assaulted on low rear armour with NFW.

 

Land Raiders have become so much more durable in 5th, which is why I think the change from;

 

It's funny how perspectives change. When I first started playing my GHLR lists, I was mocked, as Rand Raiders were almost "untouchables" in the minds of many players, and taking them was a sign of being a "noob". Now, a list that stacks Raiders of any type is viewed (by many players) as cheesy and overpowered.

 

When I first started playing, LR weren't worth it. Cost too much, and there was far too much in the game that could easily destory them (even if it's a lucky 6 on a glance).

 

Now, they are durable, and a force to be reckoned with. So when an opponent faces two of these behemoths, that thier Lascannons bounce off, and thier Plasma Cannons have no hope of hurting, they scream 'Cheese' and 'Overpower'.

 

Personally, I can't see myself dropping LR from any GK lists. We need the Transports, and while specialised anti tank can drop them, they are a royal pain in the rear to deal with. ;)

[honersstodnt]

well, I usually never play games lower than 1.5k points... in games of 1000 points or lower I usually prefer dreads.

 

but at 1500 points, you can comfortably have 2 pagk squads, a squad of GKT, and 3 land raiders :)

[benmothershaw]

Well i'm in the Ok seen as I use 2 Land Raiders, one of each. In 1500pts

Although I do use a LR in 1000pts.

 

The thing that made me convert my LR to a LRC was the fact it wasn't mobile and efficient, but with the new POTM rules thats no longer true.

 

Imo Lascannons suck against Heavy Armour, with a twin-linked lascannon it's something like 1:20 chance of a destroyed 5-6 result.

Lascannons are great against armoured infantry armies like SOB because they can take their transports down with ease.

Probably the strongest thing is survivability, people will waste shots on this baby.

 

The Multi-Melta has about 1:6 chance of killing a AV 14 vehicle which is fairly respectable within 12".

[pufnstuf]

While regular LR's are good if you want to sit at range, i tend to be agressive, and the crusader performs that roll better. Keep in mind with it, you can mvoe 12", fire 6 TL Bolters, and a MM or AC, where as with te regular LR its one lc or one AC. AND the LRC's mm/ac can attack a different target than the bolters, so i soften up the enemy with the bolters, charge the GK's, and pop the tanks with the ac or MM.

[krewl]

I prefer (For 1700 points which is our standard level of points we play on at the club and tournaments in the Netherlands.) 3 landraiders and of those I use at least one LRC and one LR.

 

Currently I have 2 tactics with this pure lis;

One where I rush a part of the enemy's field with 2 crusaders and

one where I use the 4 TLLC's of 2 godhammer patterns to destroy ant tank threaths asap and then advance.

 

Both work reasonable well, (Badd dice rolls will remain painfull with those super expensive 3 eggs in 3 expensive baskets).

I feel that the choice for a first landraider will largly depend on your playingstyle and your local set of enemy's.

 

Facing guard, orks or other horde armies will naturally point you to the LRC's, more armoured opponents will guide you to the second LR with LTTC's.