Plasma weaponry on vital models . . .

[Battle-Brother Wags]

I'm currently struggling with the weapon load-out in my Grey Hunter squads. I always have the problem of spending too many points with all the kick-butt gear that is available, but an even greater problem just assaulted me a moment ago. When you run two power weapons and two plasma pistols in a predominantly bolter/ccw squad, should you put the PPs and PWs on the same models? If you do and you are charged, you can get the +1 assault attack if you pass your leadership for the counterattack move. That'd be nice to have 6 total power weapon his even when assaulted, but what about the chances of your plasma weaponry killing your own models and taking the power weapons with them?

 

What do you guys run? Which way do you think is better to outfit your Grey Hunters?

[Spacefrisian]

Drop the Plasmapistols all together, you spend way to many points that way.

[G. A. K.]

I came up with a decent solution to this problem in fourth ed. When I use two PPs in a GH squad I put one one a PW the other one w/o. That way if I get an overheat, I can put it on the non-PW guy and in CC I get at least one extra PW attack.

[Wolf89]

Plasma pistols are totally worth it, I'd always recommend at least one in the squad.

 

I usually kit it out like 2x pp/ccw , 1x bolter/pw, 1x bolter/pf, or swapping the PF for a PW or something depending on the rest of the list you might want that PF in there.

 

The reason to mix things up is simple, wound allocation. ;)

[Battle-Brother Wags]

I came up with a decent solution to this problem in fourth ed. When I use two PPs in a GH squad I put one one a PW the other one w/o. That way if I get an overheat, I can put it on the non-PW guy and in CC I get at least one extra PW attack.

 

While I understand the wound allocation deal, I think this way of doing things is mighty sketchy. Since they are equipped differently, you should roll specifically for each model with plasma pistol, seeings how it *will* affect the game based on who dies and who doesn't. I'm not meaning any offense, but I think this way of doing it is very unsportsmanlike and against the rules.

 

@Spacefrisian - I definitely agree that PPs can be dropped when you're looking for extra points, but I would agree with the others that they are definitely worth their points if you plan on using them. 4 plasma shots at BS4 will cause some serious damage to the enemy when you're jumping out of a rhino or drop pod.

 

@Wolf89 - Do you split it up solely for wound allocation, or is the PP possibility of blowing up and killing it's carrier also in your reasoning?

[Wolf89]

Obviously not killing a special weapon carrier is a benefit, and it does play a factor, but wound allocation is amazing in 5th and can really keep units alive much longer. I try my hardest to mix and match as much as possible and it's always fun to see one GH get nuked by plasma fire than 2+ GH's just because your opponent decided to shoot a hail of bolter fire at them as well. ^_^

 

My WGBG are solely allocation, everyone HAS to have something different, no exceptions... also nice to have those fenrisian wolves to allocate to. ;)

[Guest WG Vrox]

It all comes down to how many GHs are in the squad and how many of those models have special weapons. I never go beyond a 1 to 1 ratio of basic equiped GH to special weapons including PLs and HQs if added.

 

Example: running 10 GHs with 1PL and 1HQ I would run 6 basic GHs and 4 GHs +1PL +1HQ with special weapons.

 

Only time I bring more than 1PP in my GHs unit is if they are in a DP, otherwise I find the points better spent else where. DPing will usually net you a real good chance of using the PP on something that you will get the points back.

 

WG Vrox

[TheLastHuzzah]

It depends on how I am running my packs. BC never get plasma weapons, GH on the other hand often do.

 

I am, however against two special weapons on 1 model.

 

I would recommend leaving the Ppistols at home in a Bolter/cc squad. If you are using them as an assault squad (BP, CC); I'm all about them.

 

In my lists I like to have a role for each squad; in my current 2k list, I have 3 GH packs:

 

9 GH- 8 Bolter/cc, 2x PW, 1x Pgun

WGPL- TDA, SB, WP, PF

Attached WGBL w/ AC, FB, WP, TDA

 

A fire base to hold a home objective, and/or advance steadily.

 

9 GH- BP/CC, 2x PW, 1x Mgun, 2x PP

WGPL- BP, WP, PF

 

In a rhino for assaulting things (main opponent plays BA)

 

6 GH- 2x PP, 1x Pgun, 3x bolters in a HB/PMSB Razorback

 

supports previous GH, and/or LRC Bloodclaws, occasionally used put a hurting on a particularly nasty unit before they meet an untimely end.

 

-Huzzah

[Wolf89]

Not sure why you're hindering yourself huzzah, I truly think that plasma pistols in a bolter squad fit perfectly, especially if they have a transport of sorts.

 

You're looking at a unit that strives on getting in that rapid fire range, why lessen your chances by using plasma pistols only in your CC squads? The bolter GH squads are by far the strongest troop choice for us and plasma pistols will never let you down in their hands.

 

A drop podding GH squad ALWAYS should have plasma pistols, a rhino/razorback GH squad ALWAYS should have plasma pistols, the only time where it's a toss up is if they're either in a land raider (not sure why you'd put them in there) or sitting back holding an objective (here they should have them anyways since your opponent will be sure to try to take the objective from you, and he'll/she'll get close enough to that range for sure).

 

Trust me, start trying them out in your bolter squads. :)

[Battle-Brother Wags]

Hmm, interesting replies. I think the "general" concensus is that PPs are definitely worth it. I agree. Now how about the use of Power Weapons in those same squads (meaning Bolter/CCW squads.) I usually either go drop pods or mechanized, so the goal is always to get in that rapid fire range and then receive the charge. I always assume I will get charged. So I guess that is the first question.

 

Is it right to assume we will take a charge when executing the rapid fire maneuver?

 

And if we assume this, should we rely on PWs or just the fire power to wittle the enemy down so that basic chainswords can finish them off?

[Guest WG Vrox]

Thats easy, Power weapons always all the time, except maybe in a small hold objective pack and even then I usually run a Power fist in case a nasty surprise drops in

[OnlyInDeath]

And if we assume this, should we rely on PWs or just the fire power to wittle the enemy down so that basic chainswords can finish them off?

 

Both. Rapid firing a ton of bolters, a pg and a pp or 2 will whittle down any unit quite well. With PW's or even the odd PF in the squad will kill most units that charge them after you get done unloading. In my drop pod lists, the units I know will get in the thick of it have 1xmg, 1xpp, 1xpw and 1xpf. I know not everyone agrees with this setup, but I find it makes them able to handle just about anything that comes their way. Swap out a PG and add another pp for heavy infantry killing drop pod gh's (3+ save or better).

[TheLastHuzzah]

Man, tough crowd.

 

Given the packs that I listed, It comes down to feeling that I have "enough" firepower in the slogging squad (at full strength 11 bolter shots, 20 at rapid fire) and 4 AC shots. They can shoot and are just as dangerous in melee. It also gives me 30 points to do other things with.

 

That being said, perhaps I will try a few Ppistols in my next game with the slogging GH; at the moment I think they are a tough sell with what I would have to give up to get them, but I'm sure I can find the points.

 

-Huzzah

[Lord Ragnarok]

I don't mix plasma weaponry on my models which also have pw/pf. Too many eggs in one basket. For my WG and combi plasma....they all have terminator armor and runic charms. As I run a DP army, this fire power is paramount for me.