The firepower of a Land Raider

[minigun762]

On paper, taking a Land Raider for its guns seems silly, especially considering the mixed nature of its weapons. However many people (myself included) take them to ferry Troops around the battlefield, but once they are delivered, they turn into semi-mobile bunkers and unleash death.

So my question for the group is, whats been your experience with using Land Raiders as bunkers and gunships either before or after their transport role is complete. Does that AV14 stop you from getting shaken/damaged where as a Predator would keep getting stun locked or destroyed? Do you ever wish you had taken more guns on it ,like a Havoc Launcher?

[chillin]

I'm lucky if my LR lives long enough to drop the assault ramp. And rarely does it live long after that.

So rarely do I get any benefit from the "fire power" of the LR. IMO the "firepower" is unimpressive anyway, 1 TL'ed LC (or HB) if it moved 6", 2 TL'ed LC's and a TL'ed HB if stationary. And as you said the LC's and HB are a poor combo anyway.

The LRC is such a better assault vehicle that you can't even compair the 2.

[Sons of Horus]

my LRs always make it out alive. they are definitely a great way of getting troops from here to there much faster. oh and don't forget, now that it's 5th ed, you can ram other vehicles with AV 14!

[the jeske]

agree with chill unless you run a LR hvy build [but then its an assault army , so LR wont do much pew pew] , its not really worth to use it . it costs tons of pts and unlike the loyalist version we dont have access to the ok versions of it [like the crusader] . also all good players run meta against it , so the chance that its going to die is really high .

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Got a player around here who runs four Crusaders in tourneys. I think it works ok. I have a lot of mobile meltas in my force, so if I play my Chaos list he might be in trouble. But Crusaders have great capacity, fine firepower, and add mobility. I like them.

[Hellios]

I think Land Raiders work better in saturation although they are vulnerable to certain armies such as eldar and dark eldar with lots of lance (Unless your BT with blessed hulls.). Crusaders and Redeemers are better for troop transports because of low strength or shorter range weapons which means you can move or you have to be close to use your weapons anyway. The problem with the standard land raider is that is that its two roles can't both be carried out to maximum effect at the same time.

[minigun762]

The problem with the standard land raider is that is that its two roles can't both be carried out to maximum effect at the same time.

 

Yeah... :wacko: I know this but I'm grasping at straws, trying to find some alternative to mounting my troops in Rhinos, and Land Raiders have some potential for that.

[Muskie]

I ran a single Landraider at West Coast Mayhem in a 2000 point tournement. There was one other army with two landraiders, no IG, and a single flying pyramid. My landraider was destroyed only once and it took some snazzy Eldar gun, it was damaged only in one other game by the Avatar himself.

 

Frickin' Eldar

 

Anyway it probably should have died, I'm used to it dying, but I would say the new -2 to glancing hits is huge for the landraider. I used it purely as a gun platform. It performed swell. It is intimidating and provides tactical problems for your opponent, plus you can load up a unit and move 'em 12 inches.

 

It worked so well at West Coast Mayhem I'm thinking of painting a second one, I don't know at what point value I'd run two in the same army, but I'm tempted to throw a havoc launcher on one, instead of the almost useless combi-bolter.

 

A combi flamer might be amusing but the havoc would up the number of shots at range and I don't have a problem letting it lose on infantry especially infantry like Heavy Destroyers or enemy terminators. The fact every gun is twin linked is golden. I don't possess mine. The lascannons are usually good for two kills a turn plus say another one from the Heavy Bolter, sometimes the heavy bolter seemed to work better. Three dead guys a turn is nothing to sneeze at, over a seven turn game that is like two squads of Marines and even in a five turn game that is 1.5 dead tactical squads, so if you can find some better targets it might actually pay for itself.

 

I'd take one just for the intimidation, plus you can hide something behind it, such as your lord or deamon prince. Though it can get in the way of the rest of your army and can be hard to maneuver on terrain heavy tables, maybe on my next more expensive raider I'll go with dozer blade, I'm starting to think death rollers are worth it on battlewagons, but I'm not sure if the new kit will have one...

 

So yah Landraiders can totally be worth it as a bunker, sure it can be killed in a single shot but only by certain guns and they often still only have 3/36 or at best 6/36 chance of doing it, that is after they actually hit, so assuming BS 4 so 3/49 for a strength 8 weapon and 6/49 for strength 9. Those are back of an envelope calculations FYI.

[the jeske]

i dont know but dreads drops shots with mulit melta or a siege dread with a melta or double tap the rider with two deep striking oblits or tap it twice with attack bikes and you have a fairlly good chance of doing something to a land raider .

[AkiraCho]

i personally dont like LRs their firepower never really brings the points back for me..250 pts can buy me 2 predators and then some. 2 vindicators have a lot more fire power, or i could mix and match... land raiders = not worth it.. why not buy lots of razor backs? LOTS of firepower since they are so cheap, and there are lots...

[Sheff]

i personally dont like LRs their firepower never really brings the points back for me..250 pts can buy me 2 predators and then some. 2 vindicators have a lot more fire power, or i could mix and match... land raiders = not worth it.. why not buy lots of razor backs? LOTS of firepower since they are so cheap, and there are lots...

 

If only I could use razorbacks ;) , thankfully my Landraider shines when I play. I play against mech Black Templars and Ultramarines a lot, and so I mostly use my Landraider as bait.

[CelestialSon]

Lr always works out for me with possession and havok launcher. I use it as a fire bunker for anti-tank or anti-infantry depending on what happens. It always survives and every so often i use it to hold a scoring unit at the end of the game and save them the risk of small arms death

[BrainFireBob]

The LR can work quite well as a gun platform, IMHO, but you have to realize that one of two criteria needs to be filled:

 

1) You take multiples LRs. Two more than doubles their punch, and three are awesome, if expensive. Most armies can easily take down one. More than one is a struggle.

 

2) I've used my chaos one- singular- to great effect as both transport and gun platform in a single game. The trick? It's a superb defensive tank when taken singly. Use it for late-game moves and blasting. Early on, maybe do some sponson sniping, but generally hide it. Sprint it forward with a counter-assault unit if/when necessary. Once you've eliminated the few major threats to its survival (make no mistake, it is likely there are only one or two)- their Russ is dead, that annihilator was nailed by your Havocs, their Broadsides fell to the might of your raptors- you plunk that bad boy in the dead center and start ripping up. You have to save it, though. It's a big target, and it looks threatening. So if you bring it out early, it will take one for the team- and go down fast and furious. But if you save it for late game moves, when their firepower is depleted, you'll find it often a game-winner.

[the jeske]

land raider 250+ pts . counter unit ~250 pts[unless an IC is there too then its more] . playing 3 turns without 1/4 of the army , because your hiding a huge model to make counter attacks ? very very bad . a lord on a steed or with wings , can do counter just a good for 1/4th of the pts.

 

as the sniping goes , first of all there is no sniping in the 5th[not the way it was in the 4th anyway] , second paying 500+ pts for 2 lascanons is way way over the top . its 6 oblits and they can "snipe" more and better with different weapons , can deep strike etc etc .

the truth is unless you playing on a city board with loads of LoS blocking [and I really mean a lot] or against an army that just cant deal with land raiders , then the LR is a waste of pts .

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I've always viewed the Land Raider as a transport first and a tank second, so as a transport, it's got very nice firepower. As a tank, it leaves a little to be desired. I use it as a big armored bus to deposit horrible things like Khorne Terminators onto people I don't like, and after that it just runs around and makes a nuisance of itself. I don't field it like I would a Predator or Vindicator at all.

[CelestialSon]

I'm suprised that firepower is really the issue. LRs are expensive because of their A14 all around, transport capacity and assault ramp. Preds, obilts and anything else that doesn't transport or have all around A14 is bound to have better firepower. If you're not interested in transporting or a really tough tank, why are you even using a LR?

[Mal]

My personal biggest use of land raiders is 2 godhammers in my GK army, I play water warrior style so the crusader is out as thats fire warrior which means aside from anti-tank and sniping command squads (gotta love people who pump points into a FNP command squad and you then shoot 4 twin-linked lascannons at it) the primary role of my raiders is a heavy transport, its sole purpose is to keep my troops alive from barrages of incomming fire, and I have to say, the raider works wonders for that... BUT they are not nearly as hard to destroy as people seem to think... a little tactics and some well equipped squads (you dont need to throw points at squads, meltaguns/meltabombs are more than enough, plus they are cheap!) and the raider doesn't stand a chance...

 

In all the games i've played against raiders only once has my opponent kept their raider alive... and in that game I had NO melta weapons.... kinda says it all really....

[CelestialSon]

Just wait until you play a tournament and someone runs a scoring unit of 1 man in his raider up on the last turn.

[Brumgert Da Mad]

For me I play pure thousand sons. I love the twinlinked las cannons because of my lack of antitank. Also it gets my Rubrics into range. All in all I never leave home with out my Land raider.

[minigun762]

Alot of people keep mentioning thats its a Transport first and foremost.

 

I think the majority of people are aware of that and the reason they're paying for it is to ferry Troops around the board.

 

The question is more, once its done its job, do you find the firepower it can bring helpful, or totally forgettable?

 

If its not moving, it can put out more firepower than a pair of Obliterators which ain't bad. The amount of shots is actually semi-close to what a Dakka Predator can through out (8 shots vs 5 TL'd) and while it might be the best weapon combo, there are targets like Monstorous Creatures or Terminators where the Heavy Bolter isn't totally wasted.

[chillin]

Just wait until you play a tournament and someone runs a scoring unit of 1 man in his raider up on the last turn.

 

That's a trick, like my girlfriend's 5 year old daughter hiding behind the corner so "we don't know where she is" is a trick.

 

Seriously, has that ever worked for you ?

Or against you ? :lol:

[Mal]

Alot of people keep mentioning thats its a Transport first and foremost.

 

I think the majority of people are aware of that and the reason they're paying for it is to ferry Troops around the board.

 

The question is more, once its done its job, do you find the firepower it can bring helpful, or totally forgettable?

 

Well I dont know about you, but its rare my GK's leave the side of my trusty raiders, if an enemy with anti-MEQ weapons is getting too close (GK's are too expensive to throw away needlessly) then I hop them in the tank and concentrate fire until the unit or the weapon at least is dead, then hop out and open fire at any advancing units who thought to take advantage of the fire, so in other words, my raiders job as a transport is not over til the game is.

[Sheff]

Alot of people keep mentioning thats its a Transport first and foremost.

 

I think the majority of people are aware of that and the reason they're paying for it is to ferry Troops around the board.

 

The question is more, once its done its job, do you find the firepower it can bring helpful, or totally forgettable?

 

Well I dont know about you, but its rare my GK's leave the side of my trusty raiders, if an enemy with anti-MEQ weapons is getting too close (GK's are too expensive to throw away needlessly) then I hop them in the tank and concentrate fire until the unit or the weapon at least is dead, then hop out and open fire at any advancing units who thought to take advantage of the fire, so in other words, my raiders job as a transport is not over til the game is.

 

When I'm using my Land Raider on the attack I do the opposite, I'll usually drop off my terminators and then go tank hunting. Even if I'm just blocking LOS against a Vindicator for a turn, I prefer to protect my troops by taking out their biggest threats.

[Mal]

thats one way to do it, i'd rather snipe the vindi from a distance with a pair of TL lascannons.