Is an all Khorne Daemon army viable ...

[Isiah]

Two issues [and please forgive my naivety here]:

 

• As the title says – is an all-Khorne Daemon army viable to play? I've recently bought the Daemon Codex and an army of red all-charging daemons appeals to me on the most basic of levels and has fuelled my imagination. But as I'm not yet totally up to speed on Daemons capabilities (only actually faced them twice), I would imagine concentrating on just the one God would create serious shortfalls elsewhere in the list??

 

• The reason why I ask is that in the preamble in the Codex it's mentioned that the various Gods only very rarely join forces as they spend a lot of time fighting each other – seeming to preclude more balanced 'mixed' Daemon lists. Would I be right in this assumption – or did I just read too much into it (no page ref sorry, I'm at work and relying on my defective memory). So, I'm asking if a one-God Daemon army is actually more 'Daemon' fluffy?

 

Cheers

I

[Wolf89]

I run a mono-god Khorne list, but to be effective you either have to use soulgrinders, or max out on monstrous creatures to be effective, since your anti-tank is limited.

 

Otherwise yes, fluffy is mono-god, rare fluffy is mixed, but they do come together for common goals....

 

I always thought they should hinder those who don't go mono-god, such as each turn each unit needs to take a Ld test to see if they move towards/attack/whatever another faction if they're within a certain range, either that or they need to stay like 6-12" away from eachother at all times or something.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

In the WD literature related to this army, the designers intended mixed god lists. That being said, certain gods made off a little better than others in the versatility department. The only rule that enforces cult lines is the, Daemonic Rivalry rule that states that IC’s of a certain god cannot join the units of another. No Khorne Heralds hooking up with Daemonette packs.

 

That being said, this really does contradict the vast majority of GW fluff surrounding Chaos to date. Oh well, they did the same thing to Chaos Marines so why not Daemons as well?

 

Of the 4 gods, it’s MHO that Khorne has the best shot at being viable as a stand alone figuring that you are going to have a Soul Grinder (or 2 or 3) in there as well. They are actually unaligned daemonic entities fluff-wise but derive from the 4 powers (as odd as that is) and give you the fire support you need to get your ground troops into assault range.

 

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. :P

 

-OMG

[Captain Malachi]

Of all the mono-god armies, Khorne has the best shot, but as Wolf89 said, take a good few monstrous creatures, I'd recommend 2 soulgrinders and a prince, with 2 'thirsters leading the charge (maybe only 1 if points are tight).

[Isiah]

OK all thanks for the replies. Time to reread the dex and sit down with pen and paper and flesh out the ideas. Glad to know I wasn't barking completely up the wrong tree there though.

[Lord Eltor]

I'd recomend you the following:

 

In a 1000 points army list, one Blood Thirster should be enough, I think two blood thirsters are too much if you want fluff.

So get one Blood thirster, some Blood letters, Bloodcrushers, Grinder, Daemon-Prince and make a 1000 points list.

 

Then play a few games and you will see if it works for you. To get some more variety and power, you might continue with a second 1000 points army of demons, i.e. nurgle.

 

So: A Bloodthirster, Bloodletter, a Soul Grinder and Blood Crusher are always a good choice. It won't be a waste of money!

[Iron Lord]

the (awful) Eye of Terror novel does have Khorne and Tzeentch greater daemons teaming up.

 

Daemons got off lighter than CSMs fluffwise- who can put Khârn the Betrayer at the head of an Emperor's Children squad if they want to.

[Wolf Lord Fenrir]

I use a pure Khorne legion and it's nice to place on the table. Took an absolute pasting though, which is more due to faults in the codex, rather than by taking a single god.

 

It'll make its second outing later, so we shall see.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

What faults in the codex are you referring to? -OMG

[Wolf Lord Fenrir]

The deep strike everything mechanism is all very nice, but can make for some horrible games. You have to have first turn - if not, the enemy can zip forward and force you to deep strike roughly where he wants. Then you can't do anything when landing. He opens up with decent firepower and reduces the unit to a few members, then moves onto the next lot. A 5+ inv save only goes so far. You'll often face a full 1500 points with about 750 points worth.

[OwlandMoonGuy]

The all deep striking army is the boon/bane of the army. Your use of the term, “fault” doesn’t sit well with me. Even given the situation you raise above, there are still mitigations to the problem.

 

It’s a subtle distinction but according to the Daemonic Assault rule, C:CD pg 27, “At the beginning of your first turn, divide the army into two groups that must include, as much as possible, the same number of units.” You don’t have to pick your desired half until after your opponent has made their opening move.

 

Given some adequate redundancy in your list, you should be able to select starting units that can make a mess of those who dare to venture too far down table w/o proper support.

 

Can you better describe the specific situation in that game?

 

-OMG

[Wolf89]

The deep strike everything mechanism is all very nice, but can make for some horrible games. You have to have first turn - if not, the enemy can zip forward and force you to deep strike roughly where he wants. Then you can't do anything when landing. He opens up with decent firepower and reduces the unit to a few members, then moves onto the next lot. A 5+ inv save only goes so far. You'll often face a full 1500 points with about 750 points worth.

 

I have yet to face someone that has given me grief for going second or first, I regularly go second as my dice suck. Even a full mech SoB army didn't accomplish what you were talking about... figuring a 4' x 6' you'll have plenty of room. Only thing is still having the chance of loosing my MC's to a mishap... but there's a reason why there's things like icons and such.

 

Also take risks, just because you THINK he/she pitted you in a corner or somewhere unfavorable, who's to say you can't drop right in front of them, or something and take that chance? Nothing in 40k is certain, there's always the dice rolls... why not play the game with dice? ;)

 

Also let's say you are mono-god, which god? Khorne is probably the best for this role, biggest reasons is tough troops, great in combat, great characters and options, more resilient than slaanesh, quicker than nurgle, somewhat of a balance I like to believe.

 

If you wanted to play it "safe" then why not go nurgle? yes you'll NEED all the turns of a game (which trust me, in a tournament there's times where you only get to turn 4) to be effective, but at least you'll survive.

[Captain Malachi]

Actually, I firmly believe choosing to go second is best for a daemon player, it may give them a free turn to position, but no army is that fast, and it also gives them one less shooting phase.

[Wolf89]

it also gives them one less shooting phase.

 

Right you are... also a chance for them to "spread out" more and weaken their defenses.

[Raptor1313]

I think that the worst thing the enemy can do is spread out and let you take him piecemal. Given our ability to focus our troops, I'd be more than ahppy to see him split up and try to force me into a 'scattered' deployment.

 

I'll take my flank and nibble on it, too.

[GrantDaKiller]

I go for several units of bloodletters lead by skulltaker, and Skarbrand with a pair of khorne princes for backup. Works well for me, except when playing tau, who just chicken out and hide.

[Wolf89]

I go for several units of bloodletters lead by skulltaker, and Skarbrand with a pair of khorne princes for backup. Works well for me, except when playing tau, who just chicken out and hide.

 

Against tau (at least a pretty standard list I think I face... (3 broadsides, hammerhead, pathfinders, drone unit, 2 devilfish, 3-4 firewarriors, 3 suits, 1 commander, something along those lines)) I find that giving them the juicy bone "bloodthirster, DP what have you" really early while screening behind are some bloodletters are a real challenge, taking big risks and some flesh hounds make short work of tau.

 

I STRIVE for multiple assaults against tau, so flesh hounds really come in handy, and packing closely together helps achieve this... then once they catch on and start spreading out again, you know what to do. :huh:

[RandomGuy]

Mono god lists are very very fluffy and great if you can pull them off but I almost feel that by doing it you end up with a different brand of cheese. 2 Bloodthirsters, 2 Princes and a Soul Grinder is not exactly fluffy is it? Yes an all khorne list is feasible, but to make them competitive you almost need 3 HS choices just for some shooting.

 

The only mono god list I would ever try to take to a tournament would be a Tzeentch one. In my opinion you just can't win a game without shooting and tzeentch is the only deamonic source of it. Obviously if you just want a fun list then go for it. It will be more of a challenge than normal because the codex is balanced with all choices in mind, not with people taking mono-god lists.

 

Random Guy

[Captain Malachi]

RandomGuy, could you show me a mono-tzeentch list that would do well? I'm not saying you're wrong that it could work, it's just that in the same way khorne specialises too much in combat, tzeentch specialises too much in shooting, and CC is better than shooting overall as there are more combat phases a game than shooting. As you yourself said, for mono-khorne to be competative you must take 3 HS choices to get some shooting in, but it's the same with mono-tzeentch, you have to take 3 princes/grinders to get any CC power in, but they aren't as good at it, whereas taking 2 grinders in a khorne list gives you the best shooting in the daemon army, and the last choice, the prince, bumps your CC power up to ungodly levels.

[Wolf89]

Mono god lists are very very fluffy and great if you can pull them off but I almost feel that by doing it you end up with a different brand of cheese. 2 Bloodthirsters, 2 Princes and a Soul Grinder is not exactly fluffy is it? Yes an all khorne list is feasible, but to make them competitive you almost need 3 HS choices just for some shooting.

 

The only mono god list I would ever try to take to a tournament would be a Tzeentch one. In my opinion you just can't win a game without shooting and tzeentch is the only deamonic source of it. Obviously if you just want a fun list then go for it. It will be more of a challenge than normal because the codex is balanced with all choices in mind, not with people taking mono-god lists.

 

Random Guy

 

I'd have to also ask for your Tzeentch list, trust me I played around with the idea before I started Khorne daemons (mainly picked Khorne for 2 facts... I LOVE assault (hence space wolves, blood angels, world eaters player), and I already had juggers, bloodletters (granted I've got 60 of the new bloodletters as they're shorter than the older ones and I need LoS! :tu: ) some daemons princes and some bloodthirsters.

 

I was trying something with Fateweaver, two heralds on chariots (with some beefed up powers), a few flamers (I think 5), lots of horros (one with changeling), 2 squads of screamers, and some soul grinders as fillers.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

No Khorne Heralds hooking up with Daemonette packs.

 

Lol.

[Wolf89]

Of the 4 gods, it’s MHO that Khorne has the best shot at being viable as a stand alone figuring that you are going to have a Soul Grinder (or 2 or 3) in there as well.

 

Actually I just had one of those head-aches with a picture... :tu:

 

It's even fluffier to have a mono-khorne list than anything else, considering it happens more often than others. Examples come in the form of Tzeentch "tricking" khorne into having him muscle his way around here and there... it's always appealing to be worshiping a god that can't resist a fight no matter who it helps.