Prince versus ginder.

[Captain Malachi]

Ok, I've noticed that there seems to be a split between the daemon players who like to have daemon princes in their heavy support, and those who prefer soulgrinders, so I've decided to start this little debate to see if we can find out why. Personally, I fall into the "prince lover" category, for me, the increased versatility of the prince is far better than the increased firepower of the grinder, think for a minute, a prince with flight, MoN and noxious touch is fairly cheap at 180 points, and wounds anything on a 2+, I'd say that's pretty hard, the S10 weapons of the grinder can't do that to everything.

Princes are also generally faster, and more survivable imo, as people will use the same sorts of weapons they would use against the grinder to kill it (high strength guns), but a base prince must be hit four times beore it goes down, at least, a grinder can go down after one.

Think about one last thing, cover. A prince, while hard to hide, is much easier to hide than the enormous bulk of the soulgrinder.

Now, don't get me wrong, the soulgrinder has its uses, hordes for example are better dealt with by a grinder than a prince, but the prince is able to be customized to beat almost anything in the game, the grinder can't do that. Hopefully someone will come along to defend the grinder (I'm looking at you OMG), so discuss. <_<

[==Me==]

I prefer Grinders typically. They are relatively cheap (phlegm and you're good to go, BS3 railguns just don't do it for ==Me==), AV13, solid in assault, very shooty, and damn good looking!

 

Princes have a ton of options, but they get expensive quick and I'm quite leery of something so expensive with only T5 and a 5+ invulnerable. If I'm fielding a Prince, it's either stupidly cheap (DP w/ Boon, 110 points of good clean fun) or given MoN/MoT. Iron Hide is a given, and after that he costs as much as a Grinder. Factor in all the upgrades and I can get 2 Grinders! I was a big fan of Tzeentch DPs for a while, but a 200 point BS5 bolt is not all that impressive, especially if he's getting torn up by bolters and hormagaunts.

 

I'd say it depends on how your army is set up and what you want to do, but I take Grinders over Princes on most days.

[rotface]

Hello fellow demons! I'm new to chaos demons but a veteran warammer player (as a side note!). I was wondering if the soulgrinder has a gun. And, how effective is it against hordes of guardsmen in CC and Ranged?

[Captain Malachi]

Yes it does have a gun, as far as I can tell the soulgrinder is the closest thing a daemon army has to dedicated fire-support, it's got 2 guns actually, both are good against hordes, and one of them can be upgraded to give it (in a sense) more guns, but I don't believe I can say what it does, If you're new to chaos daemons I suggest you check your codex. :D And welcome to the B&C, may your time here be pleasant. :devil:

==Me==, you're right, princes do get expensive, but that's because they get strong quickly too, although admittedly I may not be the best to argue for princes, seeing as my list is daemonzilla and grinders don't fit in there.

[Askari]

Grinders add something to your army that princes don't (vehicle armor). Princes, like any other monstrous creature from your selection, can be taken out with massed small arms fire but that small arms fire can't touch grinders and so the opponent will have to focus his high strength weapons on your grinders instead of your greater daemons.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Having fought a few Chaos Daemon armies, I got to say the Soul Grinder been tough to take down. But same time, my Iron Warriors Daemon Prince (warsmith) find it pretty easy to rip them apart.

 

Like other have said it depend what is in your force, etc... & how it all work out. I get a Soul Grinder for a Daemon force since they are cheaper than a Daemon (after it been all tooled up). But other thing to have a mix like 2x Soul Grinder & a Daemon Prince.

 

My own daemons, once I get them done. Will have a few Soul Grinder over a Prince, just for the reason cheap models & because I try a Daemon Prince (greatess GW model) in my Iron Warriors so want to try diffrent things.

 

IP

[eyescrossed]

I prefer soul grinders to daemon princes, because the grinder has been more survivable than the prince.

I've used it in 4 games and it only got destroyed in one against eldar because it was immobilised by terrain and my friend INSISTED it couldn't shoot on the turn it entered play (Hence the topic "5th Ed. Hazardous for soul grinders?") and even then, it survived a melta gun and 4 rounds of combat with an avatar :P

[Wolf Lord Fenrir]

I prefer princes, becuase the model is far better and they allow a greater degree of tailoring for conversions.

 

They also draw fire away from the Bloodthirster and can get in amongst the enemy pretty quickly.

[Raptor1313]

I'm into the Grinder for its durability and firepower. I feel that for the army, the DP is too 'middle of the road'.

 

If you want a melee monster, I'd take a Greater Daemon. The T6 is a major breaking point, as you're looking at the difference between the average S4 troop/gun wounding on a 5+ vs. a 6+. The Greater Daemon also has a better save (unless it's a Tzeentch DP) with a 4++, and the Bloodthirster has a 3+ armor save as well.

 

The melee Greater Daemons also wound more easily. We're looking at S6 minimum (as I think even the Bringer of Change is S6), which wounds on 2+. The Bloodthirster can hit S8 and Instant-Death most melee targets as well. DPs hit S5. DPs also have fewere attacks on the profile.

 

The melee Greater Daemons also bring Fleet to the table, or Wings (unless it's the Greater Unclean One). Daemon PRince boy has to buy his wings. Once a DP has picked up the obligatory Iron Hide and Wings, he's (off the top of my head) about 180ish points, or a little shy of being a Keeper of Secrets, who's arguably faster, and undoubtedly tougher and has more attacks.

 

For the points it takes to get capabilities similar to a Greater Daemon in melee, a Greater Daemon is a better choice.

 

For shootiness...Phlegm vs. Daemonic Gaze, or Gaze + Breath of Chaos (which runs your price up into Soul Grinder range...).

 

A Daemon Prince can at least hurl an accurate Bolt of Tzeentch, but that's about it.

 

DPs have two things over the Soul Grinder, I think.

1) In Nurgle-heavy lists, a Mark of Nurgle

2) THe ability to be a cheap melee unit with IRon Hide and strength upgrades.