Doctor Thunder Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 I'm a fan of the missing primarch idea, already mentioned above. Here is an idea of how/why they got removed from Imperial history w/o going Chaos. It obviously still needs some work, but I thought it makes a good starting point. Maybe someone else can help me refine it. I'd suggest going the DaVinci Code route. The only thing that would justify the Missing Primarchs being deleted from all records while the traitor legions remain in the records is if that deletion was necessary to place the 12 Lords of Terra in power. Follow me on this one: Rogal Dorn and Roberte Guilman approach The Emperor on the subject of succession, assuming they are to be named his successors, but are shocked to discover that is his intention to name an heir to take the throne after him, transferring the bulk of his power and wisdom to that child upon his death. Enraged, they storm out, but before they can decide on a course of action, the Heresy occurs. After Horus is slain, Dorn finds The Emperor's broken body and sees his opportunity. The Emperor's body is imprisoned in the Golden Throne, ensuring that he cannot transfer his power to Either of the Female Primarchs, both of which are carrying The Emperor's child at this point, and in an act of treachery as dark as any committed by Horus, The two female legions are annihilated to the last person, and deleted from all records. Guilman then rebuilds the Imperium in his image, along with the other 12 Lords of Terra that participated in the Emperor's Betrayal. Dorn does not receive his seat on the council, and only relents upon threat of annihilation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1775741 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 We'll attempt to keep on topic, but a quick question: The Emperor's body is imprisoned in the Golden Throne, ensuring that he cannot transfer his power to Either of the Female Primarchs, both of which are carrying The Emperor's child at this point, The female Primarchs (if there was any) would be a kin to the males of their family, so sisters. So they would be the Emperor's Daughters, having the Emperor's child...now that is dark! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1775819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 We'll attempt to keep on topic, but a quick question: The Emperor's body is imprisoned in the Golden Throne, ensuring that he cannot transfer his power to Either of the Female Primarchs, both of which are carrying The Emperor's child at this point, The female Primarchs (if there was any) would be a kin to the males of their family, so sisters. So they would be the Emperor's Daughters, having the Emperor's child...now that is dark! And in this episode of Jerry Springer... Seriously though, I think Sister Kyrie's idea is better than pregnant incest. I'm a fan of the missing primarch idea, already mentioned above. Here is an idea of how/why they got removed from Imperial history w/o going Chaos. It obviously still needs some work, but I thought it makes a good starting point. Maybe someone else can help me refine it. At the start of the Great Crusade, the Emperor takes all his marines off to wherever to get started. The legion in question gets a call for help from their homeworld/one of the planets in their home system. They ask for permission to go help. Emperor says no, cuz the planet is a lost cause. Unable to accept this, the primarch takes her legion and prepares to head off. The Emperor tells her that if she leaves, he'll disown her and make it as if she and her legion never existed. Primarch figures she can patch things up w/"Dad" after she gets back and leaves. Some disaster occurs while they're away to prevent them from returning to the Crusade fleets, things never get resolved, and the Emperor follows through on his threat. Voila, missing legion, no fall to Chaos to hide, but still fits the "forshadowing" of the Horus Heresy in that they rebelled. How'd some of them end up in the 41st millenium? The Warp does strange things... I also second Dr. Thunder on these points: In my mind, a Female Marine would have less physical strength then her male counterpart, and would also be shorter. She would also be quicker, have a higher pain threshold, longer lifespan, and superior ability to track multiple threats simultaneously. None of these differences would be great enough to require stat changes, but the presence of a trade-off in abilities makes it feel more in character with the fluff. **Edited to Quote Sister Kyrie** Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1778835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kittenofdeath Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 We'll attempt to keep on topic, but a quick question: The Emperor's body is imprisoned in the Golden Throne, ensuring that he cannot transfer his power to Either of the Female Primarchs, both of which are carrying The Emperor's child at this point, The female Primarchs (if there was any) would be a kin to the males of their family, so sisters. So they would be the Emperor's Daughters, having the Emperor's child...now that is dark! I remember reading an old version of the emperors coming in to being (I don’t know if its still cannon and all that) where all of the shamans and psykers on earth foresaw their own extinction (they were no longer able to reincarnate themselves), and decided that in order for their will and power to survive, their best course of action was to commit a mass suicide and focus all of their souls in to one being, thus the emperor was born, so you could get around that pesky inbreeding part by saying that it was and immaculate conception Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1779877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 We'll attempt to keep on topic, but a quick question: The Emperor's body is imprisoned in the Golden Throne, ensuring that he cannot transfer his power to Either of the Female Primarchs, both of which are carrying The Emperor's child at this point, The female Primarchs (if there was any) would be a kin to the males of their family, so sisters. So they would be the Emperor's Daughters, having the Emperor's child...now that is dark! Not really... the emperor geneticly engineered the primarchs, theres nothing that says he used his own genetics for them. Nor can I recall anything that says they were geneticly as close as brothers for that matter. They refer to each other as brothers for they are all creations of the emperor and serve under him. Foster brothers still call each other brother... but if one of them knocks up his foster sister its not geneticly incest, its just sex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1779964 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Technicly, it's like an adopted brother and sister having sex. It's still incest in most peoples' minds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1780496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeker Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Origination Idea - Templa Sororitas - Bionic Sororitas (using BT codex) fight along side a "sponsor" chapter of "regular" marines. Overview: Sororitas "Auxillaries" to a Space Marine Chapter (probably Iron Hands Successors) "empowered" with Bionics to become Female Marines (actually, in keeping with their fervent zeal, Female Templars is probably better from a game point of view). Some time in the past, an Iron hands successor chapter was nearly annihilated defending their home world, which was also home to a Sororitas convent. In order to speed up the regrowth of the defence force, the chapter masters orders his tech marines and apothecaries to implant the surviving sisters with bionics, bringing them up to the (game wise) level of the male marines. The Sisters distinguished themselves fighting along side the Marines for many years as the two forces slowly rebuilt their numbers and their home. After several generations had elapsed, the enhancement and training of Sororitas alongside Astartes became routine to this chapter, with the Sororitas forming an Auxillary company to the marines regular force, sometimes fighting alongside, sometimes fighting by them selves on Ordo Hereticus business. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1780645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeker Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Technicly, it's like an adopted brother and sister having sex. It's still incest in most peoples' minds. More like dad and adopted daughter, who've been estranged since almost after she was born, so she wasn't raised to think of him as "dad" - he is just another adult that she knows, as an adult. This happens - even with biological parent and children couples. Viscerally, it feels oooky, but whos to say what is or isn't right (as long as inbreeding is controlled) if neither partner is abusing their powers Course, if its the Emperor of mankind, then there are plenty of powers to abuse.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1780652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 And it's also commanding officer having sex with subbordinate as well, whichi is a no-no in military terms ;) Origination Idea - Templa Sororitas - Bionic Sororitas (using BT codex) fight along side a "sponsor" chapter of "regular" marines. I like this idea personally. Looks promising. Might end up using it myself... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1781058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joeker Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I like this idea personally. Looks promising. Might end up using it myself... By all means. I sketched up an army list today... using a BT Marshall's rules for the Canoness, the Chaplain to represent a Missionary/preacher type, the Champion as a (weaker?) version of the living saint. There are many other identifications between the two armies - i felt I had to eschew Terminators and Dreads as maybe pushing the idea too far, and the BT don't have as many flamers or meltas to fit my image of the Sisters, but the change in armaments could be chalked up to adopting a more codex style based upon working with the astartes for generations. Damn... now I've got a 16th company for my hypothetical chapter... Atleast this story lets you use essentially unconverted SoB minis. Joe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1781168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I came up with a couple of basic army lists for them myself, but I preferred to just use the new C:SM instead, for simplicity's sake. I'll play around with army builder using the BT codex later. Unfortunately, they had the same issue of not having enough melta or flamer weaponry for standard infantry, but I likewise chalked that up to them working with Marines for generations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1781216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor The Great Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Couldn't you use Female Marines that have some of the organs but not the Gene seed?that way they would be Strong,fast and the Male Marines might not be so hostile towards them?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1782562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 I doubt taht's even possible, given the nature of the organs, and it would be hella hard to replace losses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1783195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flameseeker574 Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 Honestly if I ever did a female space marine chapter (*shudders*) I would have them be enhanced with super steroids and other similar stuff. Like what the Imperium did to Luther and the other order knights. They would start out as SoB and then get enchanced to the point where they are close enough to space marines to use their rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1787902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 People have tried that. In real life, in fact. Failed miserably by the way. It destroys the normal human body within a decade, in fact, it will often destroy the body and cause cancer within a few years. Or other disorders, including mental ones. Even with advanced biological knowledge, it is likely that without using the Astartes' methods, it would be physically impossible-- nevermind that all SIsters are adults and do not appreciate such things (altering the human body? HERETIC! *burns alive*). The Sisters do not become Sisters until they have graduated from the schola progenium, which makes them young adults-- meaning, if you were actually able to do this experiment on Sororitas without being burned alive and having your family declared heretics to be burned alive as well (not likely in the first place), then you would not be able to achieve the results you want. If you want to start interfering with the training of commissars, stormtroopers, and sororitas at the schola progenium, you'd have extra political hurdles to jump over. Nevermind the fact that even still, using drugs alone, it would be essentialyl impossible to create a mentally and physically healthy group of soldiers using "super-steroids", especially given that such things typically do not react the same way to the female body as it does to the male body. The fact is, the best way to have something get to the level of an Astartes? Use the same methods as one would use to get an Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1788411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Those Super Steroids thoughts have given me an idea that involves a current 40k drug: Polymorphine currently used by the Callidus Assassin Temple it allows mainly (there is canon that indicates at least one male Callidus - 2nd Edition Assassian Codex) female Callidus to change their form and adopt beyond human abilities (ie carrying a Child around safe in your stomach, being able to take the form of an Ork - which involves extra muscle mass + surgical implants). Now consider an altered form of Polymorphine that allows a female to bulk up to Space Marine proportions, sure they wouldn't have many of the SM abilities but they could be as physically strong... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1789053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Why do they have to be Marines? Cant you be content to have them represented by Marine rules but something else entirely? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1789542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissia Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Why do they have to be Marines? Cant you be content to have them represented by Marine rules but something else entirely? Sure I can. See the "bionic enhancements" idea, which could be feasible on a small scale. The "super steroids" idea however, just doesn't work. But unlike any of these, a re-keyed geneseed would make replacing losses easier, relatively speaking. The human body is not like the Ork or Marine body, it's a bit fragile-- ergo, the bionics may end up being wasted due to a biological failure. The reason people want to go with them being Astartes is because there are few other ways to justify the increased strength, durability, and speed that even the basic Marine has. For example, an experienced Celestian will more than likely be able to match a Marine in speed and possibly exceed them in skilll, but they still have the human strength and durability (or one should say, the lack thereof). Counting them as Marines without a fluff justification is something I will not do. I play this game for the fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1789554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Why do they have to be Marines? Cant you be content to have them represented by Marine rules but something else entirely? All my suggestions have been in that vein. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1789994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 It gets old after awhile. No, there are no female Marines, if you want to play with the Space Marine Codex by all means, but come up with another explanation because they are not Space Marines. All these conspiracy theories about the Emperor doing things that would make the mutants from the Hills have Eyes blush is weird and a little insulting. It has been established there are no female marines and all these threads do nothing more than beat the chunks of dead horse left over from its last beating. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1790212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 This thread is not here for debating the merits of female marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1790234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 You know that there are paper minis from the early days of this game? That if my friends and I agreed we could play with nothing but paper mins we made ourselves on photoshop and printed out? Female marines isnt an insult to anyone else.... its a fun idea, and I thank the people who are writing in this thread for their good ideas. My cousin megahns been wanting to do this for a while, but as a liber chapter has been wanting good fluff to go with her well painted minis. This has been a gem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1790472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Thunder Posted November 30, 2008 Author Share Posted November 30, 2008 My cousin megahns been wanting to do this for a while, but as a liber chapter has been wanting good fluff to go with her well painted minis. This has been a gem. And that is the whole point here. To create a resource for people who already want to make female marines. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1790481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 What does paper minis have to do with female marines? Are you insinuating that we can do whatever we want with this hobby? If so, then yeah sure, but if I told you I was going to use the Second Primarch as my Chapter's Master and he had decided that his geneseed would be better if mixed with Custode and Grey Knight Geneseed, you would laugh in my face and pass it off as another kid who wouldn't understand if you tried to explain. Thats what female marines are, the second primarch which I believe Doctor Thunder actually wanted to use... Please consider the rest of use who don't like female marines. Is it not too much to have marine-like females??? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1791479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I think Sigismund has it right - this topic isn't the best place to discuss the various merits of female Space Marines. There's a thread for that in the Librarium Discussion forum. There are plenty of Liber-ites and B+Cers who dislike the idea of female Marines. I'm one of them. But there are other people who like them, and this topic is to help them create them. Leave them to it! Drama doesn't help anybody. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/151800-female-marines-article-discussion/page/2/#findComment-1791489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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