More from Jervis Johnson...

[Melissia]

Checked the costs for that army I stated above for Sisters...

 

222 models with an optimized list (actualy the army would suck, because it has no exorcists), the army would cost:

 

Total: 3945

 

Splitting it up:

HQ: 325

EL: 776

TR: 1578

FA: 756

HS: 510

 

Youch. 4000 points for 220 models, no tanks whatsoever, no long or medium ranged anti-tank, etc (I could have made the HQ portion higher by including retinues, but I think my point is made). The Sisters' capabilities for "high numbers" is a bit deceptive. In reality, despite the fact that they are CAPABLE of more numbers (up to 242 models per deployment), they probably won't have that many more than Space Marines in any competative game.

 

Space Marines pay much less for what they get than Sisters.

[benmothershaw]

Apologies for not reading many other comments. Eww thats sick, 4-6 years. No need to worry about changing tactics or models then... it may even give me chance to try out a radical list for fun... eventually.

I don't know, right now we could do with a little more hope for our army than 4-6years.

Hmm this makes me think about growing old, I'm only 17!

I'm well in for Inquisition project, heck i'll even do playtesting with forgeworld equipment etc soon as I get a good job.

Thanks for the news there jakehunter!

[jakehunter52]

I doubt that this new focus will screw with our playing style per se. I think we will still get basic PAGK with their current load or something similar to it (new shrouding rules, something to mess up daemons since instability is gone, daemons still have to test for difficult when assaulting) and probably some more to make up to snuff (frag and krak or a new grenade which acts as frag but against daemonic vehicles, get some benefit like an additional d3 penetration) or simply lower the cost and give options to upgrade. So water is still in, however when you add new units, like the Lancers under development in the Project, instead of a calm river adapting to it's surroundings, you have a high powered jet stream blasting away. Additionally, I think that this is a mixed blessing for us pure Grey Knight players because it will make us much for competitive and give us much more leeway but for those who wanted the challenge that is presented now, it will be inherently lessened. Not to say that you can impose self restrictions, it just won't be the intense underdog list it is now. Also, I wonder the fate of allies because while we have been crying for variety in our lists, I fear that if they do too well of a job, it might make us OP if they don't design it right, especially if we can take expanded sisters, but I think that will be a long shot. Once again, I think that this will be a good direction and I am willing to wait...just imagine the rumors that will come out about what we can do and the cries of cheese and OP and the plastics they will make and the White Dwarf cover (I fancy myself just a black background with a decorated I and the title in bold Gothic: The Inquisition is coming)....yeah, I can wait.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yeah, thats why its called an elite army. Models that cost more should be better than those that cost less, but have their numbers restricted, thats what happens with GKs, right . . .

*Checks Codex: DH*

*Checks new Codex: SM*

*Checks Codex: DH again*

Oh wait.

 

LoL!

 

Like Sternguard and LotD. :D

 

I still stand that all marines, DA, BA, and GK included, should have been part of the new Marine Dex.

[boreas]

4-6 years... Ugh.

 

I mailed, e-mailed, called, faxed....

 

Then I did what any WH40k player would do to stay sane: I won the local tournement this week-end....

 

With my new space marine army.

 

Resistance is futile.

 

Phil

 

ps: with the new IG dex, which is rumored to include an Inquisitor, I'll flesh out my radicals. I've got a dozen unopend boxes of cadians that need looking after.

[Eltnot]

I love the way that people jump onto something and then twist it...

 

WH and DH are part of GW's 4-6 year cycle.

This doesn't say WH and DH won't be done for 4-6 years.

GW's 4-6 year cycle is their standard plan to replace each codex every 4-6 years or more to the point, they try to do each codex at least once for each version of the game.

 

Realistically, I would imagine both codices being redone sometime in 2010. Simply keep requesting an updated FAQ and they will eventually bow to the requests, and otherwise just wait.

[Melissia]

GW's 4-6 year cycle is their standard plan to replace each codex every 4-6 years or more to the point, they try to do each codex at least once for each version of the game.

They've failed. miserably, might I add.

[Coppella]

Hmm, this thread is an interesting read. I don't have a solid opinion on the current situation. Here is my current opinion though. 4-6 years is hopefully an exaggerated number. It has already been over that many years since the last one. Also, with all the "rumors" (and lets face it, that is all they are), seem to be going in every direction. One thing that does give hope though, is the Imperial Armor update, bringing our vehicles up to snuff with everyone else. Might be a good sign. [With the exception of that horrible, absolutely broken, cheese machine called "Deathstorm drop pod"].

[Gentlemanloser]

GW's 4-6 year cycle is their standard plan to replace each codex every 4-6 years or more to the point, they try to do each codex at least once for each version of the game.

 

There is an earlier quote (you might have missed) that puts us at the end of the current 5 year (or 4-6 year now, per edition) cycle.

 

Even if you start this current cycle ealrier than the release of 5th (maybe even as far back as Codex DA...) we still have 4-5 years worth of cycle to wait for our update.

 

Then of course, being at the end of the cycle, we'll suffer the same fate as the DA. New rules, that very quickly become outdated by a new game version.

 

Fun.

 

GW's 4-6 year cycle is their standard plan to replace each codex every 4-6 years or more to the point, they try to do each codex at least once for each version of the game.

They've failed. miserably, might I add.

 

LoL! Very True!

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Gentlemanloser Posted Yesterday, 11:38 PM

I still stand that all marines, DA, BA, and GK included, should have been part of the new Marine Dex.

 

You could have fooled me. After finding the author's pet conspiracy box-out on the Grey Knights, I thought they all were part of the 'dex, I just couldn't find the list under all the Ultramarine love. :P

[Gentlemanloser]

LoL!

 

Yeah, I love that Grey Knight Box as well. :devil:

 

But back to WS6 Chapter Masters and WS5 Grey Knight Grand Masters....

[Eltnot]

GW's 4-6 year cycle is their standard plan to replace each codex every 4-6 years or more to the point, they try to do each codex at least once for each version of the game.

 

There is an earlier quote (you might have missed) that puts us at the end of the current 5 year (or 4-6 year now, per edition) cycle.

 

Even if you start this current cycle ealrier than the release of 5th (maybe even as far back as Codex DA...) we still have 4-5 years worth of cycle to wait for our update.

 

Then of course, being at the end of the cycle, we'll suffer the same fate as the DA. New rules, that very quickly become outdated by a new game version.

 

Fun.

Except GW didn't get to finish it's cycle in 4th edition due to the lack of resources (caused by the continued support of the LoTR game system). You might have noticed that with the exception of the Space Marine Codex, all of the codices lined up for updates are those still using 3rd Edition codices (Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar & Necrons). I'd wager that GW is currently finishing off it's 4th Edition cycle.

[Gentlemanloser]

Yup. ;)

 

Summed up by;

 

They've failed. miserably, might I add.

[boreas]

Except GW didn't get to finish it's cycle in 4th edition due to the lack of resources (caused by the continued support of the LoTR game system). You might have noticed that with the exception of the Space Marine Codex, all of the codices lined up for updates are those still using 3rd Edition codices (Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar & Necrons). I'd wager that GW is currently finishing off it's 4th Edition cycle.

 

JJ made it clear that DH/WH are at the end of the line. What's in the line?

 

-IG, DE and Necrons are in 2009.

-SW, DA, BT and BA

-Chaos Legions (JJ said they were coming) (1 or 4 codex(es)??)

-Nids

-Tau

-DH

-WH

 

That's assuming Orks, Eldars and SMs are already 5th ed. and won't be redone before us. So we're looking at anywhere between 10-13 codexes before we're redone. At a (very optimistic) rate of 3 per year, that's 3-4 years minimum before new WH/DH codexes. No matter how you look at it, it's bad. Especially for GKs.

 

I hoped a nice FAQ (like FW did) might be a crutch until then. Yet, GW is very obstinate about not doing that. They pretext some mish-mash about confusion caused by different documents and such. Yet, FW (and other tablet-top wargaming companies) does it. I mean, how hard is it to produce a FAQ with a publiching date and version on it? We live in a world where 99% of people who can afford playing GW games can afford access to a computer daily.

 

No matter how we look a it, GW is not doing a good job at upkeeping its rules.

 

Phil

[Wolf's Bane]

Except GW didn't get to finish it's cycle in 4th edition due to the lack of resources (caused by the continued support of the LoTR game system). You might have noticed that with the exception of the Space Marine Codex, all of the codices lined up for updates are those still using 3rd Edition codices (Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar & Necrons). I'd wager that GW is currently finishing off it's 4th Edition cycle.

 

JJ made it clear that DH/WH are at the end of the line. What's in the line?

 

-IG, DE and Necrons are in 2009.

 

Agree, so, I think we shouldn't expect nothing for next year. Even that, they are told that DE is nearly at the end of the year, so April is IG, summer is a supplement like Apocalipsis or Death City. So September / October is DE / NEcrons and the other one will be pushed until 2010.

 

-SW, DA, BT and BA

 

I think DA / BA is not going to be rebuild so soon. My 2 cents are BA being updated before us and then DA.

 

-Chaos Legions (JJ said they were coming) (1 or 4 codex(es)??)

 

Yes, JJ told that the new Chaos Codex is not as good as they would like, so the want to make that fail gone.

 

-Nids

-Tau

 

Again, my two cents are these are going to be after our updated.

 

 

So, I think we would have only IG, DE, Necrons, SW, BA and some Legions Codexes (maybe 2) before us. So I think we will have our updated at the end of 2010 or more surely in 2011 (with some luck in that).

 

By the way ... the think I can not understand is ... why do they give BA players a new WD Codex and doesn't give us the same treatment? I think we can wait perfectly until that time with a good FAQ for our army.

 

The FAQ that DH needs is a very big FAQ (not as the same WH needs), so I can understand the argument they have about mis-mash. Ok, I'm a very comprensive man so I can understand that, so, why not giving us a WD Codex? A WD Codex has no a posible mish-mash and can update the old rules we have.

 

Really, I see less BA players thant DH/WH players, so ... why are they so special?

 

No matter how we look a it, GW is not doing a good job at upkeeping its rules.

 

Phil

 

True as hard as life! :)

[Elenaria]

*nod*

 

Well. I really like the focus on Inquisitors and such. It made it a very much more "personal" army to play, which I really like. Your command squad is really the main object.

 

One'll see what happens, I suppose.

[Melissia]

I don't. I just see as the Inquisition portion of C:WH getting in the way of them properly expanding the Sisters of Battle like they should have done in the first place.

[Inquisitor Fox]

But it's such a NEAT distraction.. and the focus of what a lot of us like about the hobby..

 

Don't get me wrong, I am All For Sister battlefield enhancement.. I just hope I get to keep my flufftastic Inquisitor and her retinue, since she's the entire reason I have a 40K army at all... it was a reason to finally have a little bit of everything that I thought was neat.

[Melissia]

Sure, I'm not advocating removing them entirelly now that they're in. I actually plan on using an elite inquisitor that "counts as" an "Adepta Sororitas Advisor" to my inducted guardsmen, and lets me take valkyries.

[Mal]

Except GW didn't get to finish it's cycle in 4th edition due to the lack of resources (caused by the continued support of the LoTR game system). You might have noticed that with the exception of the Space Marine Codex, all of the codices lined up for updates are those still using 3rd Edition codices (Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar & Necrons). I'd wager that GW is currently finishing off it's 4th Edition cycle.

 

JJ made it clear that DH/WH are at the end of the line. What's in the line?

 

-IG, DE and Necrons are in 2009.

-SW, DA, BT and BA

-Chaos Legions (JJ said they were coming) (1 or 4 codex(es)??)

-Nids

-Tau

-DH

-WH

 

That's assuming Orks, Eldars and SMs are already 5th ed. and won't be redone before us. So we're looking at anywhere between 10-13 codexes before we're redone. At a (very optimistic) rate of 3 per year, that's 3-4 years minimum before new WH/DH codexes. No matter how you look at it, it's bad. Especially for GKs.

 

I hoped a nice FAQ (like FW did) might be a crutch until then. Yet, GW is very obstinate about not doing that. They pretext some mish-mash about confusion caused by different documents and such. Yet, FW (and other tablet-top wargaming companies) does it. I mean, how hard is it to produce a FAQ with a publiching date and version on it? We live in a world where 99% of people who can afford playing GW games can afford access to a computer daily.

 

No matter how we look a it, GW is not doing a good job at upkeeping its rules.

 

Phil

 

From what I understand they are already looking at Orks as a potential new dex... As an Ork player, I really hope they leave it the frak alone.

[Wolf's Bane]

From what I understand they are already looking at Orks as a potential new dex... As an Ork player, I really hope they leave it the frak alone.

 

Unbeliable!!!!! How is this possible?

[CelestialSon]

The same way that DE have had to wait what seems an eternity for a new dex. GW has flip flopped on everything every new addition. 3rd ed dire avengers and shinning spears were not very good, now they are everywhere. Assault cannons were bad in 3rd ed, 4th ed made them insane. Scout bikes were hardly ever used in 4th ed, 5th makes them tricky bastards.

 

All attempts to make you buy new junk. GW runs by the numbers, marketing research and all. You're lucky DHs were even created to begin with.

[Skyhawk]

Sad. Really sad.

Oh well. We'll have to make do with what we have.

I personally think we have an outstanding dex (though outdated) compared to the new C:SM for instance, wich lacks a lot in feel, layout, fluff and graphics. Sure, the SMs are powerhouses right now but I'll take my GK's over that any day.

 

*goes back to painting ISTs*

[Utsujin]

I have a decent feeling they might just do a WD codex just to satisfy our needs. I would certainly be happy. Drop the outdated and useless special rules, and drop the points to 21 points a model or something would be just A O.K. by me. Making a Grand Master weapons kill 6 or even 7, and a brother captain 2 wounds for like, 20 points more, and weapon skill 6. That's all we need.. really...

 

Regardless, it feels great to play the underdog and the other player is like, ok, what's your weapons kill, 5? no, on all of them.. Haha, even beating new space marines is fun.

[Mal]

Well if anyone is aware of the immense cost that is required to create a single sprue for plastics then im sure you'll agree that its unlikely DH/WH will be getting plastics any time soon.