Question about the CSM troop choices

[jur]

I wonder what my best CSM troop choice is under the new 5th rules for an all round army.

 

My Choices are

 

Plaque Marines: Toughness 5, Feel no Pain, Blight Grenades

Noise Marines: Initiative 5, Sonic Weapons

Khorne Berzerkers: Furious Charge, Extra Attack

Thousand Sons: Inferno Bolts, Slow and Purposeful, 4+ Invulnerable Save, Sorcerer

With access to Warptime, Doombolt or Bolt of Change

CSM: Cheap, Heavy Weapons choice

 

I’ve been reading about it on the forums and most of the times the Khorne Berzerkers are considered the worst choice, why ?

 

An other question I have is extra Armor for your Rhino. It’s 15 points for, most of the time, the change of a first turn throw of 4 by your opponent. Everything else isn’t doesn’t matter except for a 6, so why spent 15 points. A turn later he change is somewhat bigger a 2 (penetrating) or a 4 (glancing).

 

Last question, should I take special weapons or a champion in my troops. With the new to hit rules and how I must take my armor saves, those choices are much easier to kill because the save for those choices have to be taken separately.

[minigun762]

1) all the Troop choices in Chaos are awesome. They just do different things. Your best bet is to look at what you want to accomplish and go from there.

2) I run my Rhinos naked most of the time. Extra Armor is just too expensive now and only helps 1/6 of the time. Think about it this way, you can have 3 naked Rhinos or 2 Extra Armor Rhinos, which would you take?

3) Typically we want to keep Heavy Weapons out of our CSM squads. Loyalist take 1 Heavy 1 Special and we enjoy the 2 Special Weapons bonus, because you don't want to have 9 guys hang out as 1 fires off that Missile Launcher. Two Flamers for Horde, two Melta for anti-armor, 2 Plasmaguns for anti-heavy infantry/MC and a personal favorite, one Flamer, one Melta for all around. If you have to choose between Special Weapons and Champions, I tend to choose Special Weapons simply because they're so much cheaper. However I like to put Champions in all my squads with the possible exception of the 2 Plasmagunners.

[chillin]

1- The 2 best all arounder troops choices have to be PM's and undivided csm's (but not w/ a hvy weop, two special weops always. I like 2 plaz or melta/flamer (great minds think alike minigun :P ))

The other cult choices are more specialized and less "all arounders" but no less good in the right army list.

I don't know who told you that brzrkrs were the worst, but that person has A- never been charged by them, or, B - doesn't know how to use them correctly so thinks that it's the brzrkrs that are the problem. OMG the carnage they cause.

 

2 - here I disagree w/ minigun, I still think x armor is worth it. If x armor keeps 1 rino moving and able to deliver it's payload, it was worth it. I know others disagree w/ me.

 

3 - ideally take 2 special weops and a champ in your troops (talking bout PM's and csm's here, other cult troops might be different). With the new wounding/armor saving rules, with a squad of 10 csm's it's still pretty hard to kill that special weop or champ guy, PM's are T5 and fnp so they keep their special weops and champs pretty well also even at lower #'s.

In my csm's if pts are short and I have to decide between putting a champ in a melta/flamer squad and a 2 plaz squad, I put the champ in the melta/flamer squad and leave the plaz squad without a champ, b/c the plaz squad does most of their damage in rapidfire not assault, just FYI.

[Sons of Horus]

as mentioned earlier, all our troops are awesome ;) although i'd say zerkers are very practical for CC and rubrics are very practical for ranged combat. the ordinary CSM is great because well, its cheap :tu: and you can give them heavy bolters.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I'd say it goes plague marines, zerks, then vanilla marines for order of goodness. Although in some lists you can be better off with vanilla then plagues depending on the list style.

[djkest]

Really, they are all fantastic choices, and I mean it.

 

I really like the CSM squads, they are 15 points and arguably the best "marine" you can get in WH40k for the points. You get 2 assault weapons in a squad of 10, you can pick your choice of icons, you can have 2 assault weapons, and they have bolt pistols/CCW AND bolters, plus frag and krak grenades.

 

Berserkers are great, although you really do want to get the charge with them- some say a LR is a must for these guys. I'd have a hard time arguing with that. On the charge each one has 4 str 5 ini 5 attacks. The skull champ can take a powerfist or power weapon as well. These guys simply need to assault, only genestealers or maybe some high I tyrannids would pose a real threat in CC.

 

The other types are good too, but these are my favorite.

[Zealot Of Chaos]

everyone is forgetting the best troop of all, the jacks of all trades, Noise Marines, they do whatever you want whenever you want and tick all the criteria, they are frankly just awesome

[Ace of Gods]

I run squads of CSM with Rhinos and Slaanesh icons. a lord is a must with a Power fist. Some say the fist is too expenseive, but any weapon that disalows armor saves, can instant kill heroes without eternal warriorm and can go hand to hand with a vehicle so my other more "vehicle hunter" troops dont have to be nearby or worry about, is good to me. !!

[Cale]

everyone is forgetting the best troop of all, the jacks of all trades, Noise Marines, they do whatever you want whenever you want and tick all the criteria, they are frankly just awesome

 

All the criteria except not costing too much for how difficult they are to kill. Ten points does certainly get you some advantages over regular old Chaos Space Marines, but none of those advantages make them any harder for your enemy to get rid of--and that makes them not-so-good in my book.

 

Plague Marines and regular ole Chaos Space Marines are the best--and I'm not sure in which order I'd rank them. After that, Berserkers, Rubrics, and Noise Marines are all acceptable, but worse for having put lots of points towards upgrades which just don't matter very reliably.

[the jeske]

nah nm aint that good and making them both hth and shoty is a bad move .

I see it this way

zerkers/pms rule all . then csm ok but generally a mix of 2/2 pms/zerkers is better then 4 csm units . then there are the NM , they are ok . Not great , hard to use , but one can make an army build around them work . then are the 1ksons , ap3 but still only str4 and they still have to hit . devastating against meq when in rapid range , but slow and die in hth . also they cost tons of pts and really hate any mecha armies or units with treat range bigger then 24" [specially mulit shot units].