Big Shiny (Chaosy) Space Marine Stuff

[Hilhog0]

Ok guys, with the new Space Marine Codex out I was wandering if Chaos can take stuff e.g. Thunderfire Cannons and Drop Pods.

My viewpoint is that any thing Space Marines can do, Chaos can do better! But I would like others opinion. Is it unfluffy? Any special homegrown rules? Do you think they would work well in a chaos army? I personally think that some khorne bezerkers in a 'pod would be awesome. :lol:

[Samael-TheFallen]

Well, the rule I've got with the guys I always play with is: As Chaos Player you can take everything out of codex: space marines, also newer units (maybe the chapter just became renegade), and the unit has the same rules as described in codex: space marines, BUT (very important) you need to add a certain amount of points to the normal point value (you should talk with the people you normally play with what they think about your idea).

[chillin]

Well like Samael sz you can do whatever you gameing group lets you do. But barring that the answer to your Q is a big FAT no. Chaos can not take stuff from C:s/m's.

Unless you use the C:s/m to represent your chaos army, but then of course you can't have actual chaos stuff. Very few people would let you use stuff outta 2 dex's, unless you're playing apoc., then anything goes.

[cathar the great]

I don't want to offend you, but you sound a little like my six-year old nephew leafing through Lego-catalogues "I want that thing for Christmas. And that one. And that big one with the other bigger one, too."

 

You chose to play Chaos Space Marines. You have loads of options for your army lists and tactics, use them. Use the "Counts as" - Rule and your imagination.

 

You can't use Space Marine stuff in the same way you will not transport your Berzerkers in an Eldar Falcon.

 

Even though the bits are interchangable, Chaos and Loyalists are still two different factions of 40k.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Play Apocalypse for mixed armies IMO. Otherwise, one detachment, one dex.

[Seahawk]

Someone I knew made a huge stink because he wasn't allowed to have Dark Eldar and Eldar units in the same army (this was before Apocalypse).

 

My opinion rests with cathar's.

 

You want Chaos Renegades with modern toys? Play Codex: Space Marines. It represents newly turned traitors better than the Chaos Codex anyway.

[Sons of Horus]

i agree that anything loyalists can do we can do infinitely better ;) although this doesn't seem true for the TT anymore :D i wish we were as good as before.

[Night Stalker]

its crying shame that chaos cant employ drop pods. We are *THE* drop pod force ... :/

 

And yes - old time legions use drop pods - so Seahawk is not correct.

 

Drop Pods are not modern toys, no matter how hard you will try ...

[Jarulek]

its crying shame that chaos cant employ drop pods. We are *THE* drop pod force ... :/

 

And yes - old time legions use drop pods - so Seahawk is not correct.

 

There was this section in WD saying non-codex chapter could use them, shame they didn't for Chaos. I want to use that FW dreadclaw without using apoc rules.

 

Edit: I think he was referring more to the Thunder Cannons, Ironclads, different ammo types etc.

[Askari]

I'm ok with taking home-grown drop pods, but other than that no. By taking units from other armies you take away all of your weknesses. hell, do you want tau to have crisi suits with plasma cannons on them or world eaters in ork battlewagons (AV 14 front armor and open topped with a transport capacity of 20 models so they can assault a maximum sized squad of berzerkers or terminators out of the front for half the cost of a land raider.) Armies are given the units an weapons they have to balance the game. there's a reason why rhinoe's aren't open topped.

[Seahawk]

Jarulek is entirely correct on what I meant. Drop pods and Dreadclaws were both in service pre-heresy, but drop pods won out because they had a pure machine spirit. Etc, whatev.

 

The point I made before is not a rant, but an honest observation that Codex: Space Marines has actually always been a better representative of recently turned traitors (known as renegades) since their more modern equipment hasn't yet unfixably broken down.

[chillin]

The point I made before is not a rant, but an honest observation that Codex: Space Marines has actually always been a better representative of recently turned traitors (known as renegades) s

 

Then what is "chaos renegades" dex we have now good for then ???

There are certainly no Legion rules in it ;)

 

I agree with the others here, that we (chaos) should have drop pods as they are certainly pre-heresy, and there is no fluff reason for us not too.

. But we don't and we never have so :P ....

[Seahawk]

Then what is "chaos renegades" dex we have now good for then ???

 

Are you asking a serious question here? :) :P

[chillin]

Then what is "chaos renegades" dex we have now good for then ???

 

Are you asking a serious question here? :) ;)

 

Just making a joke b/c when J. Johnson was ask about the widespread disappointment in the last C:csm's, he replied that the last dex was really supposed to represent renegades more so then the chaos Legions.

So if the s/m dex is better to represent renegades as you say (and I don't disagree), and the chaos dex doesn't represent the legions (and now according to JJ was never really supposed to), then what is it that the chaos dex actually represents ??

Just a little joke at the expense at JJ and Thorpe and Cavarore (the writers of the C"csm's 4.0) :P

[Seahawk]

Heh, I knew your punchline and inserted one of my own. No problems :RTBBB:.

[Hilhog0]

I also don't see why chaos can't have drop pods. I understand about newer stuff but I see no probs with drop pods seeing as they have been in service of the (false) Emperor since the beginning meaning that quite afew might have seen come over to the right side, surely?!

[Hilhog0]

*BUMP*

[Night Stalker]

yeah thats why i paint my chaos drop pod right now :P

[Playa]

Hey,

 

I also don't see why chaos can't have drop pods

 

For the same reasons that your list can't "have" anything that isn't in their Codex - opponents.

 

I see no probs with drop pods seeing as they have been in service of the (false) Emperor since the beginning

 

The problem is convincing the overwhelming majority of players that they're all wrong.

You may as well ask what happened to *all* of the "Renegade" Marines' Loyalist gear:

 

How did their backpacks all instantly morph at the first hint of heresy?

What happened to their Scouts, Skimmers, Plascannon, etc?

Where can I get a Viking hat? In space? At this hour?

 

The questions are legion (hur!), and the answer is - "fluff ain't rules".

 

 

Playa

[chillin]

Where can I get a Viking hat? In space? At this hour?

 

:lol: :)

 

definately the most important thing to consider before selling your soul to the dark gods.

[Night Stalker]

But majority is wrong. Every single legion/chapter have acces to drop pods.

 

About renegade codex - there is no good official codex to represent them. There is no good unofficial codex to represent tham either.

[lord arkon]

I wouldn't unless you play a renegade warband which would have had access to the Imperium's armoury before their break. Traitor legions would not since they have slightly outdated technology and have to scavenge new armour most of the time. But if your opponent is cool with it I don't see any problems. But if your not aware Chaos do have dropods called Deathclaws I think which are just slightly older versions. I'm thinking of buying the new pod set and converting it.

[cathar the great]

I am usually very open minded when it comes to the hobby and I love bending the fluff to suit my fan fiction and chapter ideas. I know there are borders, but the line that I draw includes stuff like the deleted legions and female marines. I am cool with that and will play any player who has taken time to think about his army's fluff.

 

Now with rules, it is a completely different thing. If you want to play Chaos Space Marines, you use the codex, wether you think it does not represent Chaos Space Marine the way YOU see them is not my problem. I don't mind armies with Chaos Models using the Codex Space Marines. The "Counts as" Rule is one of my best friends (rules-wise, I do have other friends).

 

And even though I hate absolutes, YOU CAN'T MIX CODEX SPACE MARINES AND CODEX CHAOS SPACE MARINES! They are two DIFFERENT races in this game. Even though they should have similar wargear, GW decided that in the rules, they don't.

 

But enough of the harsh words, here is a fluffy explanation why Chaos Renegades don't have the funky stuff:

 

They just can't keep it functioning. Who says that when a Chapter falls to Chaos, the Technicians supporting them do so too? The average Space Marine, though superhuman and all, is not able to keep Thunderfire Cannons and other Gadgets working long enough, that's just it. In the beginning (when you can use Codex: Space Marines), the equipment will still work, Dreadnought still obey, the Commanders still have tactical uses for Razorbacks and Drop-Pods.

But after a couple of hundred years, the complex equipment will fail, the Dreadnoughts, driven by their new desire to kill will have become insane and storming at the enemy in Rhinos is enough tactical complexity for the Commanders decaying brain. Now you can use Codex Chaos Space Marines

 

This explanation is of course generalised and doesn't apply every time, but it's as good an explanation as any other.

 

Fact is, you can't mix codizes as you wish, if you start doing that, next thing you know you just randomly position minis on a battlefield and flip a coin to decide the winner O.o

[Night Stalker]

... or create new codices - it's better thing.

 

Point is - GW just give us guidelines - not set of rules write down in stone - we are free to modify it :D

 

Well, i do not count rushed game with random opponent - it should defnitely obey the rules. But in cool game with your buddy, when all that count is fluff, chaos should have access to drop pods :>

 

To quote Gav T hint:

 

In the earliest days of GW, it was pretty much essential that players were willing to give anything a go, and the idea of a 'core' rules system was virtually non-existent - everything was in constant flux with WD and expansions changing the games and army lists. 'Official' was never really a concept that entered players' decision-making. The creation of a stable miniatures range and the introduction of Codexes/ army books have certainly altered the way the systems are perceived and brought many benefits to those starting out and providing continuity for existing layers, but has it also brought about a 'officialdom' attitude that stifles creativity? Have recent developments such as Cityfight and Apocalypse, and WD articles, demonstrated the GW-held belief that the 'official' rules should be viewed as a started point and not an end?

[Captain Malachi]

Just a quick thing to add on to Cathars point about techmarines not falling to chaos as well. Techmarines spend years on mars, and so they would have to not only break their oath to the imperium and the Emperor, but also to the omnissiah if they fell to chaos, not something that is likely to happen, especially with all the bionics in their brain programming them to stay loyal.