Faith of the Sisters.

[Melissia]

Don't forget that the Space Marines love to say things about loyalty and duty and all that, but that doesn't stop them from falling from grace, so the idea of fallen sisters cannot be refuted on the ground that they are 'faithful and devout'.

No, it's refuted by "only one Sister has ever fallen". Meaning, none since her have fell, either. Do whatever you want in your fan-fiction, but I consider it non-canon and going against the grain of the codex. I apparently consider the Sisters to be a lot higher quality than you do, which I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on because I'm not budging on this-- their intense, unbreakable faith (it may be shaken by catastrophe-- for example, the novices who survived the battle on Armageddon-- but in the end it is never truelly broken) is their calling card. It would be as if we were to change the Marines to not be descended from the primarchs anymorel, but from a monkey.

[Tauren]

This is you're fault...

http://epguides.com/CaptainSimian/cast.jpg

[Coppella]

I think the main problem comes from when people want to make a "Fallen Sisters" army. It is impossible to justify that by fluff, and the rules for such an abomination simply don't exist. You would be better off making a Chaos army (with chaos codex) and convert a Slannesh lord into that 1 Sister of infamy. My main compliant is the same as Melissia's, every time a new fan fiction, or whatever comes around, it always seems to be about Sisters falling from grace. It gets just as annoying as trying to read through some of the space marine books. The ones where you are constantly being reminded that they are super human genetic gods of battle butt-kicking lords of everything while cooking the best BBQ you've ever tasted, and own the house you live in, blahblahblah.

Sisters are the embodiment of faith. They stand out because of how zealous, pious, and devout they are. Taking away their faith is the same as taking away their lives.

 

 

Edit: lol, Tauren.

[Tauren]

It's mostly because they are the only "all female" force in the game. A majority of the men just want to dig their nails in and slap a slaanesh onto it for the hilarity that ensues...

[Lady_Canoness]

No, it's refuted by "only one Sister has ever fallen". Meaning, none since her have fell, either. Do whatever you want in your fan-fiction, but I consider it non-canon and going against the grain of the codex. I apparently consider the Sisters to be a lot higher quality than you do, which I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on because I'm not budging on this-- their intense, unbreakable faith (it may be shaken by catastrophe-- for example, the novices who survived the battle on Armageddon-- but in the end it is never truelly broken) is their calling card. It would be as if we were to change the Marines to not be descended from the primarchs anymorel, but from a monkey.

 

You're right, and it would seem like we are at an impass here that cannot easily be crossed.

 

So that you know where I stand, I see the Sisters to be the 40k equivelent of the knights of the 1st crusade back in (what year was it?) shortly after 1100 ad? They were a particularily devout, zealous, and rutheless bunch who deserved the title of crusaders above all others who followed after them. They held mighty ideals and did much of what we imagine the faithful in 40k to do: carrying relics into battle, approaching the holy city barefoot, incense swinging galore, smiting with prayers and song on their lips, and slaying absolutely everyone who was deemed a heretic (and I mean they spare no one.)

That is how I see the Sisters: devout, fanatical, but still mortal in every sense of the word. When they lose in battle they pray for forgivness that they may be absolved of whatever their sin that displeased the Emperor, and they do not fear death for they know that in death they shall be delivered.

To me they are ordinaty women with strong convictions and beliefs, though this does not grant them any supernatural abilities that they wield like a sorcerer would weild his powers.

I also take the view that like Satan and his Fallen Angels, even the best Sister is capable of becoming disallusioned by the Imperium because of some precieved flaw in either herself of the dominion she serves. A fallen Sister is not one who consciously turns her back on the Emperor and curses his name - any Sister would rather die than do that - but like the romantic Black Knights, she finds herself beset on all sides, lost, and confused so that she no longer can see the light. A fallen Sister is a figure of sorow, for they walk in darkness and continual pain, knowing anger and dispair unlike any other. She does not rejoice or revel in her darkness, but is maddened by those who have wronged her and too afraid to give herself up. She doubts everything - even herself - and cannot bring herself to trust anyone, for if she believes that her Emperor has forsaken her, then why should she put her faith in anything else?

One who is fallen is very different from a traitor, for while a traitor will turn against their former master and side with his enemies, a fallen lashes out against everyone, wanting nothing more than to be left alone.

 

So that is where I'm coming from. Hopefully this will clarify matters, and maybe we can make this thread a constructive dialogue rather than a battle of will and fluff.

 

Now, Coppella, I can see why you would say that (after all, when you do hear about Fallen Sister armies, they are generally Slaaneshi) but I think that is an extreme generalization. First of all, I haven't seen any serious fiction other than my own concerning a fallen Sister, and if you had read mine, you would know that I'm not doing it for the "Cool! I want a corrupted Batttle Sister!" effect.

My reasons are as stated above, and for the record, no I do not think an entire army of Sisters could be corrupted -to me it is only on exceptional levels with single individuals. If you still find my stance on this to be unacceptable, then I'm more than willing to talk about it.

Also, I would like to leave the 2nd ed Codex out of this: 40k has grown as both a game and a universe since then, so I think that anything from 2nd ed is more than a little dated.

 

-L_C

[Tauren]

The Black Templars would have a conniption at being glossed over for the sisters as "crusading knights"

[Coppella]

L_C: I read some of your on going story. I sadly haven't been able to sit down and read much of anything lately. I understand your point of view. Your not trying to create a whole army that serves chaos. Its the bullshyt where people want to make an army of lecherous, hedonistic slannesh slaves, or ravening cursing witches of khorne, and call em traitor Sisters that really bothers me. From what I got out of your story so far, is that 1 woman now under the influence of Khorne, is trying to manipulate a Sisters army. It is your story, but there are a lot of red flags that would of usually ended your story before it got to where it is, had it been writen by following fluff. I'm not putting your story down, I enjoyed what I read so far. I just don't see it as canon. Sister's organization has a lot of catch-all nets in it. Especially since its directly connected to the Church and Inquisition.

Just to touch on another bit of Sister stories. "Faith and Fire" was a decent read, it didn't do half bad on the fluff end, but still had its pitfalls. That can be said about all the 40k novels though.

[Eddie Orlock]

Also, I would like to leave the 2nd ed Codex out of this: 40k has grown as both a game and a universe since then, so I think that anything from 2nd ed is more than a little dated.

I still cite documents from Rogue Trader as particularly note worthy of defining the setting. Indeed, many later articles are poor reflections of the earlier, mightier, tomes. Just 'cause they've changed the game doesn't mean the old information isn't still meaningful. It's where a lot of 'new' things like conversion beamers come from. It's also the source of trivia like the fact that by the fluff, not all crosii are neural disrupting power weapons, most of them are just mundane sticks. It's just that chaplains favour the ones of alien origin when fighting.