Rune Priest

[Guest WG Vrox]

Ok, I know I saw this before but can't find it in FAQ or up to 3 pages back so may be in a none titled thread.

 

Storm Caller:

 

Not going to go into the cover save on the assult as that has been talked to death and this is in the FAQ. however I do have questions that fall under this topic.

 

If you are playing with SC giving I-10 on the charge (let's say house rules allow it) and the unit you are charging has frag gren do you loose the I-10?

 

If you cast SC on a Vehical does the cover save give a +5 cover or the +4 as in more than 50% of its mass is hiden?

 

Chooser of the slain:

 

If a RP has a SS and PW or FW does the CotS give the additional attack for 2 CCW at all times?

If a RP has a SS and a TH. LC, or PF does the CotS give the additional attack for 2 CCW? A: No

If the RP is in a Drop Pod and off the table does the special rule of the CotH against infiltrators still work?

 

WG vrox

[Dark Bjoern]

Ok, I know I saw this before but can't find it in FAQ or up to 3 pages back so may be in a none titled thread.

 

Storm Caller:

 

Not going to go into the cover save on the assult as that has been talked to death and this is in the FAQ. however I do have questions that fall under this topic.

 

If you are playing with SC giving I-10 on the charge (let's say house rules allow it) and the unit you are charging has frag gren do you loose the I-10?

 

If you cast SC on a Vehical does the cover save give a +5 cover or the +4 as in more than 50% of its mass is hiden?

 

Chooser of the slain:

 

If a RP has a SS and PW or FW does the CotS give the additional attack for 2 CCW at all times?

Yes, cause the SS doesn´t count as a second CCW, so the CotS works.

 

If a RP has a SS and a TH. LC, or PF does the CotS give the additional attack for 2 CCW? A: No

If the RP is in a Drop Pod and off the table does the special rule of the CotH against infiltrators still work?

No, he needs to be on the board

WG vrox

[Grey Mage]

It doesnt, because storm shield now SPECIFICLY says that it doesnt let you get a bonus for a second CCW.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

it does because chooser of the slain allows you to have an extra ccw unless you are armed with an extra ccw already.

[Grey Mage]

Wich is exactly why it doesnt.

 

Chooser of the slain makes you count as equiped with an additional hand weapon, wich normally would mean +1 A.

Storm Shield says that you dont get an additional attack- Ever- for having an additional close combat weapon.

 

Therefore even though you are "equiped" with an additional close combat weapon, you dont get the bonus attack. Not because the Storm Shield takes up a hand like it an additional CCW would, but because storm shield specificly says that you dont get the bonus.

 

See?

[Level]

Sorry Grey Mage but I think that you have it backwards.

 

the storm shield takes up a hand slot yet does not give you the attack for having a second weapon. The Chooser however then does give you the extra attack as it is flying around and acts as a weapon that you don't have to hold.

 

The chooser does not allow you to have an extra weapon but is the extra weapon in itself, the only time that you would not get the extra attack from a chooser would be if you already have two weapons.

[Grey Mage]

The chooser of the Slain states : "Rune Priests that have a Chooser of the Slain count as having an additional close combat weapon in close combat..."

 

Now, youll note that storm shields are in italics in the armory, so we must refer to codex space marine for their rules.

 

Storm shield states: "A model with storm shield has a 3+ invulnerable save. A model equipped with a storm shield can NEVER claim the +1 attack bonus for being armed with two close combat weapons in an assault".

 

Caps are my emphasis.

 

This is pretty strait forward.... Cots counts as an additional hand weapon, storm shield says that that doesnt matter.... no bonus attack.

[Level]

The chooser of the Slain states : "Rune Priests that have a Chooser of the Slain count as having an additional close combat weapon in close combat..."

 

So going by this quote you would say that if a rune priest has a chooser and an additional ccw then he would get two extra attacks?

 

sorry I don't have my dex with me to check the actual wording but I think you may have missed out some stuff at the end there.

 

does the chooser take up a weapon slot?

in which cases would a rune priest not take two weapons?

[G. A. K.]

If you are playing with SC giving I-10 on the charge (let's say house rules allow it) and the unit you are charging has frag gren do you loose the I-10?

 

SC doesn't give you Int 10 anymore. However assault grenades (frag) only work when you assault not when you are assaulted, so that means that if you charge a unit in the open with SC on you you go at Int, while they go at Int 1 (As if the target had assaulted into cover w/o frags).

However if your target is already in cover, SC will have no effect and the squads will attack each other at Int order. In effect only giving the charging unit frags for that turn (nice for temies who cann't have frags).

As powers go it isn't as over-powered as the lash, but it can still be usefull in limited cases.

[roosterpfunk69]

It is pretty obvious that the Storm Shild description ( never a 2nd attack for a second close CCW ) is meant to imply that the shield it's self doesn't act as a second CCW because it takes up the other arm). As in, " how could you get another attack if you are busy holding a shield with that hand".

 

The Choser of the Slain grants an attack as if it were another CCW so as not to give the extra attack to lightning claws, T hammers, and PF's (in other words: GW didn't want to change the base attacks on the statline).

 

I understand why one could desire to "lawyer talk" someone out of the extra attack because of GW's use of the word never in the description. But it doesn't fit the fluff, the spirit of the CoS wargear, or the meaning behind the SS description. In other words... one must TRY EXTRA HARD to come to the conclusion that the storm shield description cancels the powers granted by war gear. C'mon people... GW is often flawed gramaticly and they have little to no proof reading or cross referance with their prior products. Don't fight EXTRA HARD to exploit the flaws.

 

( now i know someone is going to say, I am not trying.... The word NEVER is right there. You also should recognise the intended meaning and error on the side of letting your buddy have the attack.... instead FIGHTing to stop him form haveing 1 attack)

[Grey Mage]

@ Level. I quoted what I beleived to be the pertinent part, the rest is just below now. Sorry.

 

Its how the rules work. The end of that quote is "this modifier does not apply if the rune priest already has an additional handweapon".

 

1) Storm shield doesnt allow another attack under any circumstances.

2) Chooser of the Slain only makes you count as an additional handweapon.

3) Stormshields are single handed weapons to spacewolves, this wouldnt have worked even in 3rd edition.

 

Im a space wolf player. Im not trying to munchkin here.... Im trying to get a handle on munchkinning that I see others doing. This doesnt work. The reason Chooser of the Slain lets you have an attack as per an additional handweapon, spirit of the rules wise?

 

Runic staff doesnt count as a handweapon. It works in all respects as a psychic hood. So you dont get the +1A. Chooser of the Slain gives you its own bonus, and lets you properly utilize wargear most runepriests should have.

 

As for my buddy.... No one else in my county plays space wolves as far as I Can tell. If they ever did, its been years since they dusted them off at any of the local gaming groups or stores.

[Level]

@ Grey Mage

 

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one matey.

 

The chooser was built to work, as you say, in conjunction with the rune staff so that our priests don't lose out on an attack because he has a fluffy psychic hood.

 

I believe that it will work in conjunction with the Storm shield too. Because it is a piece of wargear that gives you an extra attack if your hand slots are filled with things that don't give you the extra attack. I think the word "never" that is used in the description of the storm shield is in the same way as a power fist or single lightning claw will never allow you to have more than one attack.

 

If, for example, you had a rune priest geared out with a power fist and a bolt pistol, he would not get an extra attack for having a close combat weapon, however, if the priest also had a chooser then I'd say that he'd get the extra attack.

 

Storm shield would work in the same way I reckon.

[Grey Mage]

And I wouldnt... because the chooser of the slain doesnt say you get +1 attack. It doesnt say you get +1 attack as if you had a paired weapon *for lightning claws and powerfist style weaponry*, it just says you count as being equiped with an additional close combat weapon. Obviously you can decide to ignore the RAW and go for what you think it should be, I cant stop you and unless we were playing each other wouldnt even try.

 

The confusion I think comes from the part in paranthesis. That part that says (i.e. +1 attack) thats just for reference. IE is "In Example" to show the normal outcome of this rule. Does that mean you were intended to always get +1 A, no matter what the other rule said?

 

If that was the case I ask you Level, why didnt they just say that a Chooser of the Slain grants +1 A unless the Rune Priest is equiped with an additional close combat weapon? Wouldnt that have been much simpler?

 

*shrugs* On the other hand I cant claim to always follow the RAW myself. I grant my BT, DA, and BA brethren all the equipment rules out of the new C:SM. Thats certainly not RAW except maybe for DA. So Id like to be clear that Im not trying to tell you that you have to play your game my way, simply that the RAW dont support it.

 

"After all, theyre more like guidelines anyways"

[WarPanda]

Grey Mage is right Level. We could argue that Fluff wise that is what Chooser is supposed to do but that is not what it does. Not sure if you have Army Builder but that program has never and still does not allow you to get the +1 attack(chooser) using a SS or PF or TH etc... Of course I know that Army builder is not the end all be all in rules but they latest 5th edition is pretty dare bug free, and I have found no bugs with the SW.

 

Plus, I think the wording in the codex SM and SW justifies Grey Mages arguement.

[Guest WG Vrox]

Another thing, What's up with RPs not getting FWs? I am asking for fluff and balance reasons?

[Guest WG Vrox]

If you would like, please state your favorite and most effective way that you run your RP. Now I am not talking about going all out and dumping 600 points into this. I am asking how do you run your RP in lists that you field. Please give your tactics as well.

 

I am finding that CC and RP is one of the more effective combos in my list.

 

A RP with SS/FW on a SMB and WP. Joined to a 8 GH squad with 7BPs, 2PW, 1PG, 1PP . WGPL SS/PF, WP

 

Start in front large with a large spaceing, keep marching them toward an objective, RUN when you can, keep casting SC. Provides cover to not only them but those behind. can deal with anything on the board, sure they can get the crap shot out of them but, at least there is a chances for saves as well as my oppenent not shooting at some of my more tender units. If its real bad go to ground and enjoy a 4+ invol save.

 

Remember on the go to ground thing, it adds a +1 to the SC 5+ cover save. I try to only use this in extreme emergencies such as a Demolisher hit. you loose alot of your advantages if assulted.

 

WG Vrox

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

if by fw you mean force weapon they do its called the rune weapon.

 

i used mine in a drop pod with a grey hunter squad fielding 2 plasma pistosl, 1 plasma gun, 1 power weapon and 1 powerfist. the rune priest had 1 plasma pistol and a frostblade and wp with runic charm.

 

i dropped them right next to a vindicator and dreadnaught. i had planned on using the runepriest to provide a cover save however i dropped into cover and opened up on the vindie and got rid of that nasty cannon. next turn an assault squad and the dread wanted to play and the rune priest wiped the assault templars out before they had a chance and the dreadnaught got smacked around in two turns later.

[Guest WG Vrox]

lol , no meant Fen Wolves

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

wolves dont trust the mystical guys? or you dont really want to see if the rune priest can kill an alpha wolf and take over. (rune priests are rare i bet)

[chillin]

OMG you guys need a new dex !

trying to sync up your 10 yr old dex with the new s/m dex and the new rule book is ridiculous.

[Guest WG Vrox]

Anyone else smell a troll? He may have passed this way, so keep your eyes open

 

WG Vrox

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

could have sworn Snorri and his warband killed all the trolls 100 years ago. i guess its time for another great hunt.

 

 

anyway. rune priests should see another role on the battlefield. keeping your drop pod unit alive for a while that or adding his high bs to tank popping with a combi melta or plasma pistol.

[Grey Mage]

I just think a Runepriest should have a more far reaching role, or the ability to anyways. Their current scope is pretty limited, and the unit itself suffers as a result. Ive yet to take on in anything but a single friendly match because I have a hard time seeing alot of use for the normal one. 13nth co on the other hand.... but I digress.

 

Im waiting for the good ideas/news to roll in, and watching closely.

[Level]

Sadly I find that the best use for a rune priest is just for his runic staff.

 

When going up against psykers, especially chaos, then the psychic hood is incredibly important. It sucks that we only get LD 9 though as this puts us at a huge disadvantage. I've played many games where I put my runepriest on a bike with no other equipment and just keep turbo boosting him into cover at the back to keep him alive so that he can null psychic powers that would otherwise cause major havoc.

 

Also the chooser of the slain is a really good piece of gear, extra attacks aside, (and I think that you are actually correct on that one now that I see your point of view Grey Mage <_< ), the ability to counter infiltration moves is awesome. even though it's not 100% effective it is really worth the cost.

[Wolf89]

Also the chooser of the slain is a really good piece of gear, extra attacks aside, (and I think that you are actually correct on that one now that I see your point of view Grey Mage :) ), the ability to counter infiltration moves is awesome. even though it's not 100% effective it is really worth the cost.

 

I'm too lazy to find the post, but we discussed the other options that CotS provides us and we've determined it'll also stop outflanking (granted it'll only work if the outflank was attempted with the infiltration rule and not by another such as scouts). So add another thing that 10 points dish out to be awesome. ;)