Abbadon and Kharn

[Haakon Ironheart]

Have you ever played using Abbadon and/or Khârn? Whats your opinion on them gameswise?

[Bloodstorm]

Abbadon is good but too expensive, and slow to get into combat, Khârn is just insane, he usually carves up whatever side of the battlefield hes on, hits on 2's, wounds on 2's usually, i think its 7 attacks on the charge...

[King Tiger]

Abby is....average, and Khârn, well he's just a pushover for some reason

[CelestialSon]

Khârn is gross. There's nothing stopping you from using him as a lone wolf to slaughter your enemy without the bother of his betrayer rule.

 

Abaddon is a little harder to justify. He is very expensive, but few things in the game can take him down. Just think, it's a close call, but he can take down a wraithlord before it even swings.

[the jeske]

one is slow and costs a lot of pts and the other one is just slow . Khârn is better because when compared to other khorn HQs he may be even called ok .

generally both are rather on the weak side .

[Cornelias]

unless your playing apoc or gams between 2000-3000 points then both can be fun. it's probably not the best use of points but i have used abbadon with a termie squad in a land raider a few times. generally they'll either kick up a storm or take most of the heat from the rest of your army for a few turns.

 

although as i normally play between 1000-1850 points games i don't get to field him often. ;)

[Sheff]

When I've used Khârn he's always been able to kill more than his points. The best he's done is taking out a Land Raider after cleaving through a pf Terminator squad.

[CelestialSon]

I agree, i can't see how Khârn is bad. There's nothing terribly game breaking about him, but for his cost and pure gut stompiness he's almost a broken model. Some tournaments frown upon mr Khârn's ability to take apart HQs, squads and tanks with equal ease. Some ban him, some you'll take a comp hit. But then again, its borderline impossible to make a chaos list without someone complaining about you trying to win.

 

I can't complain about Khârn or abaddon, they both kill their points back each game. My criticisms of each is that Khârn is a world eater, thus boring IMO, and abaddon is just silly in lower point games. 1800+ i'd consider either in a heartbeat

[shadelance]

Khârn all the way. He is just brutal in combat, and his story is just better than Abbadon. Abbadon is a character to respect for sure, but he will always live in the shadow of Horus, no matter how you slice it. "Horus was weak, Horus was a fool. He had the galaxy in his hands and let it slip through his fingers" blah, blah, blah...like you could've done better.... Stop making excuses for why you lost and have yet (in 10,000 years) to conquer the one measly system in your way(Cadia). Cadia is powerful yes, but has managed to resist the onslaught of Abbadon and his united (somewhat) traitor space marine legions most every time.. In 13 attempts, he has only managed to by-pass or contest Cadia, not very impressive for the supposed clone son of the War-Master.

 

Khârn cares not for conquest or glory, he simply wants to add as many skulls to Khorn's throne as he can, nothing else. He cares not for personal gain or image, only for the amount of carnage he can cause in Khorn's name, it matters not if its imperial or traitor, as long as heads roll. So, in my opinion, Khârn beats out Abby any day. Sure, Abby will snuff Khârn out most of the time in a one-on-one but for the points and shear bad-assedness, Khârn is the clear choice.

[Askari]

Khârn's better in my opinion because he's easier to use because you can use him as you would a normal Khorne HQ. Since the bloodfeeder is so frustrating to use, a lot of khorne armies use him to get a lord with a daemon weapon. Once he gets in combat he's a monster and will most cetainly make his points back. He's a minitature daemon prince really.

 

Abbadon: so much potential but too expensive for non-apoc games. His main weakness is how hard it is to move him around. You have to ither take a huge points sink landraider=termie squad to accompany him or deepstrike him with termies which ill then be sitting ducks for all the ap2 templates that a lot of armies now have.

[Zealot Of Chaos]

last apoc game I played abbaddon deepstriked, primed a void grenade, threw it and it scattered back onto him and his pimped term bodyguard >.<

[Cornelias]

use Abbadon in apoc games with a renegade libby with gate :(

[CelestialSon]

Abaddon single handedly owns big bug lists. Even souped up ninja-fexes cower before him.

[Spacefrisian]

I would go for Khârn. And in Apoc he even gets better when paired with a Chaplain.

[Archnomad]

To be honest, both rock socks. Sock rocking socks. Abaddon. Most people complain about his mobility. Ha. Plant him on an objective in the enemy deployment zone. Chuck in a squad or two and giggle as they bounce harmlessly off of you in the meatgrinder that is melee with Abaddon.

 

"Ok Abaddon's attacks" *rolls*

"how many, 9 again? ugh ok...." *removes models*

 

Khárn I have used a lot more often. He is, as has been said, a machine. He will tear through anything. Especially with a squad with him. Killing on average 5 people a turn. Awesome =P

 

I would usually take Khárn in an undivided list, and Abaddon in 2000+ occasionaly. Abaddon I use more often if I know I am playing a combat dedicated army. :)

[Azza007]

I have never used Khârn but Abby yes. In fact I used him in 1000pts, that was fun, he won the game for me. Yes he may be slow to get into combat, but when he does it is great. Played an Apocalypse game with the C:CSM just being released and he took down almost everything he faced in one turn, from a Carnifex to squad of Termagants.

[Primarch Naogedd]

Well, I'd have to say that Abby doesn't work very well. If you footslog him, he will get his face eaten by pretty much every heavy weapon in the army. If you put him in a Land Raider, that makes a gigantic waste of points and again, will be the target of every heavy weapon in the army. Plus, that's more than 500 points in a one-shot unit. Land Raider drives up, unloads Abby, Abby massacres the target, then gets his silly ponytail blown off by six lascannons. As well, if Abby dies (very likely) you've just lost a large part of your force.

 

Khârn, on the other hand, works quite well. With base strength 5 and Furious Charge, he will be hitting on twos and probably wounding on twos as well, all of which count as Monstrous Creature hits. Khârn will also only kill an average of one of your own guys a turn, and will be dishing out at least four wounds a turn. Khârn is also fluffy; while it doesn't really make sense for the Warmaster to be sitting around killing guys in a 1500 point game, Khârn doesn't care where or who he's killing, maiming and burning. Also, if you're trying to make a fluffy Khorne list and don't want to risk a Bloodfeeder, he's an excellent replacement for not too many points. But the best thing about Khârn, is that unlike Abby, you don't have to centre your army list around him. With Abby, if you take him in anything less than Apocalypse, a full Abby-delivery and support system is approximately half your army. With Khârn, you just stick him in a squad, and in Angron's words: "Just look at the little guy go..."

 

The real kicker: If Khârn dies, it doesn't matter because his skull will still go to the Blood God.

[Oor_Mate_vlad]

I've not seen Khârn in action yet (still waiting on him coming in the post). As for Abaddon, I played an 2k game against a list with him in it. He took every heavy weapon my guard army could throw at him in his stride, charged into combat then got sliced to ribbons when my Callidus Assassin appeared in my turn and promptly charged (if I remember right the rolls were 4's and 5's with no saves allowed)

[MuGGzy]

I am seriously thinking about adding Khârn to my EC army and just making up a sweet converted Melee character to "count-as" Khârn. I know it's not fluffy but if anyone complains I would happily refer them to the GW customer opinions dept. Not like my ECs have much melee anyways so he shouldn't be overpowered, just a fun diversion I assume.

[Haakon Ironheart]

I am actually experimenting with a tournament list which contains both Khârn and Abaddon. Abaddon in a land raider with a plague marine squad(taking advantage of their high surviveability), Khârn in a rhino with a PM squad too( when they disembark they choose different targets, asquad of bersekers in a rhino and a CM squad in a rhino too (some times replaced with a vindicator). Whatever my enemy chooses to aim against he will receive pain in assault...What do you think of my idea?

[the jeske]

you play a mirror match . lash lash oblits burn both squads [lets say they even killed something before]. Khârn and abi move 6" +d6 run . lash lash they are 2d6" pushed back and oblitized . etc

both are slow and while Khârn may be an improvment considering other khorn HQs [but only because khorn hqs are really really bad] and can ride with zerkers in a rhino . abi is both slow cost tons of pts [his unit is 600+] and its not even sure , if those 600+pts actually do something .

[Haakon Ironheart]

I really appreciate your comments jeske.Really helpful.My recent tournament experience(I qualified in the first 20 in heat 2 with a khorne /nurgle list) taught me that I need sth to counter those wraithlords of doom(oblits and DP are not enough) and that you must be very lucky or your opponent very unlucky to defeat well-played orcs. So I am willing to take some risks with this all assault or nothing mechanised army. Have you got some better ideas?

[Leethal]

Want to make your opponents cry?

 

Abby with Slaneshi Termie Ret with all Lightning Claws, AND Khârn with full Bezerker Ret. Aim, and fire.

 

Oh, and carry lots of annoying things too. That will screw up anyone's day.

 

Abby with IoS Termies with TLC's is mean. :lol: No standard Marine can stop them.....In all honesty, nothing except a maxed Genestealer squad with a Broodlord has a chance at denting that thing in CC.

 

Shooting at it...well that's a different story.

[Grimfoe]

I'm thinking of fielding both. I'd like to, anyway, not sure if I can spare the points for Khârn. I already have Abaddon with his retinue and I'm thinking of putting them in a Land Raider. I know this'll be 700+, but I'd like to figure in Khârn to ride with the berzerkers.

 

My hope is the lesser daemons can be used as cheap marines that will allow this to work within one army. I imagine that I'll be stuck without taking Khârn or deep striking Abaddon. Personally, I like the hard hitting expensive units as a rule. It seems people are ill prepared for them.

[doctor_wu]

Abbadon is just really expensive. Sure he is an insane monster in close combat. Khârn however is also great. He is a little overkill but still great. i would take Khârn above Abbadon.