Shiodome Posted December 11, 2008 Share Posted December 11, 2008 Khârn is more fun. Simple. And jeske is being silly regarding Khârn and lash... he's immune to all psyhic powers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1804248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 check what happens if Khârn is in a unit and the unit gets hit by lash . if he is alone ...well... then he just gets fryed without lash . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1805025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Terminator Nero Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I enjoy playing with both abbadon and karn. abbadon may be expensive but with the possibily of 10 dice in the assault phase is worth the weight in points and karn attach him to a 10 man squad of berzerkers its a blood bath i fight vallahhans and dark angels on a regular basis and they both take heavy losses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1805643 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain ChonkE Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Khârn is just... well the living avatar of the Blood God in Astartes form. He is cool. I love Abbadon and he can lay some serious hurt but like Shiodome said, Khârn is more fun and more cost-effective. When my Templars come around and the Emperor's Champion sees either one of these guys and is obligated to try and take them out. Well, he is generally never happy about that one. Ever. Although he is a little less impotent in 5th ed than he was in 4th ed. I've had Khârn roll up 75% of 2 18 man Crusader squads. Then again Abbadon has bashed in 2 of my 3 LRCs in a game. Killed the squad inside the first one :devil: Yeah, neither one of those guys are very nice. And when you field Khârn, just get him into CC and watch him work. Start babbling burn maim kill over and over and your opponent will fail his morale check and panic, sending too many units to kill this beast. Not that the attention isnt well deserved :wub: edit:spelling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1807268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromril Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 check what happens if Khârn is in a unit and the unit gets hit by lash . if he is alone ...well... then he just gets fryed without lash . if Khârn is in the squad the squad doesn't move because it moves according to the slowest model: Khârn does not move -> the squad does not move instead if the lash is casted by daemons the squad/Khârn alone will move because the lash is not a psy power (as written in demons codex) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1808393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 if Khârn is in the squad the squad doesn't move because it moves according to the slowest model: Khârn does not move -> the squad does not move read lash again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1808399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Khârn slaughters everything near him (even allies). he's great since he doesn't cost much points and will most likely kill up to 3 times his points or more. he chews up any unit type that tries to stop him with ease. he's basically a no-brainer for any WE army. ABADDON isn't as practical if you ask me. he's way too expensive and will most likely attract A LOT of unwanted attention. he usually dies early because of all the firepower he attracts. he's like a titan in a sense that he WILL be the main target. although the good part about him is that when i said he's like a titan, i meant even power-wise (a bit exaggerated). he CAN kill almost anything in the game ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1809611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromril Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 if Khârn is in the squad the squad doesn't move because it moves according to the slowest model: Khârn does not move -> the squad does not move read lash again. lash of submission a psyker may use this psichic power in the shooting phase instead of using another ranged weapon. Pick any non-vehucle enemy unit visible to the psyker and within 24", and the take a psychic test in order to use the power. If the test is successfull, the target is moved 2d6" by chaos player. This move is not slowed by difficult terrain, but dangerous terrain test are taken as normal. Victims may not be moved off the table into impassable terrain or within 1" of enemy models. after this the affected unit must take a pinning test. Faq codex chaos q: can you use lash of submission to move models around within a unit and re-arrange them? Can models be moved out of unit coherency? Can a unit be moved outof combat? If a unit is moved into dangerous terrain , do they have to test? If jump infantry are moved, are they assumed to be using their packs or walking? Can a unit be shoved right off the table, or into impassable terrain? a:the move created by this power is axactly like normal move, except that it's not slowed by difficult terrain. It follows that, for example: the 2d6" distance rolled is the unit's maximum move, as normal, and models in the unit can move up to that distance or less. models cannot be moved out of combat dangerous terrain test must be taken as normal jump infantry may choose to move either with their packs or on foot (moving player's choice) uniys cannot enter impassable terrain, leave the table or be moved closer than 1" to enemy models at the end if it's treated like a normal movement, my squad do not move, because the slowest model move to 0", and you cannot move only the squad because Khârn is parte of the squad as target of the power Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1809692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 at the end if it's treated like a normal movement, my squad do not move, because the slowest model move to 0 does faq no where says about minimum move of a unit , it also doesnt adress the fact that some units of mixed troop types [like the coming IG sential /IG mixed squads]. it does say about maxium movement . as long as Khârn stays 2" from the rest of the unit moving it around is fair and legal . because if you go the must move the rolled inches way , then its impossible to use lash or it takes hours to move an ork/nid unit legally . there is also no official ruling on table wide psychic powers that affect Khârn and his unit and unless something changed most GT go with the "if the whole unit doesnt have it , it doesnt work". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1809856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromril Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 at the end if it's treated like a normal movement, my squad do not move, because the slowest model move to 0 does faq no where says about minimum move of a unit , it's written in the black book: moviment phase, and repeated in the accident terrain if I remember right but we are going out topic! p.s. often at GT are used rules in a differently way compared to Heats and otherwise, so play as you like, as we do here <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1810807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haakon Ironheart Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Abaddon. Most people complain about his mobility. Ha. Plant him on an objective in the enemy deployment zone. Chuck in a squad or two and giggle as they bounce harmlessly off of you in the meatgrinder that is melee with Abaddon. That's exactly my intention. Take the fight to the enemy.Even if he dies he will have served his purpose well enough. Supported by two cheap squads of terminators and/or oblits I think he will shine. My troops choices will focus on securing the nearest objectives and if the situation allows, support Abbadon's attack element of the army. I let you know if my plan works, because plans rarely survive contact with the enemy... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1887797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artangel Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Abaddon owns everything in combat but I boubt he will ever kill more than his points worth and then you have to endure everyone mocking you for bringing him on. Khârn I find just plain sucks compared to a Demon prince or a slanesh Lord with a (blissgiver) deapon weapon last fight my Marine army had vc Chaos Khârn killed 2 of his terminator retinue on rolls of 1 to hit he was my Man of the match:). Truth of the matter is that most of the named HQ for Chaos just suck. Huron and Khârn are probably the worst, Lucious and Fabious can be quite good used well but compared to Demon princes that are eternal warriors and Lords with terminator armour with demon weapons that give up to 16 attacks on the charge with mark of Khorne or 10 attacks I6 that cause instant death with a mark of Slanesh why would you choose Khârn?. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1887874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have never anyone pick a khorn lord with a demon weapon over Khârn . while it is true that the chaos specials arent that great , I would say Khârn is the best of them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1887920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haakon Ironheart Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Abaddon owns everything in combat but I boubt he will ever kill more than his points worth and then you have to endure everyone mocking you for bringing him on. Why should someone mock me for using Abbadon in a tournament environment? Is Yriel or Ghazghull less cheesy? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1887938 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democratus Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I think the mocking will be because he is so points-ineffective. Not because he is cheesy. I'm going to start playing Abbadon in the near future. But it will be for campaign play, not tournaments. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 i disagree with him not "making his points back" and i'm not a fan of counting how effective a unit is by how many points it kills. Abaddon will kill as many points as you deepstrike him near, THEN he'll take a hell of a lot of fire before him goes down(depending on you getting him back into close combat if anything is within range) and will probably save a good few points worth of your own army that remains uncontested. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuGGzy Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Or use BOTH Lucious and Kharne? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Abaddon will kill as many points as you deepstrike him near moving 12" ? unless you play it against a gunline list [and those suck in the the 5th edition] or someone who doesnt know the rules for abadon it may work . but it no way work against a good opponent . He can end up almost dead to double taping units and dont tell me your going to charge him in to a unit with a power fist when he is standing on 1/2 wounds . he wont wipe the unit in one turn and next turn he dies to either counter units or the squad fist . You could put him in a land raider and give him a body guard , but then his freaking unit cost 600+ pts . abadon does nothing against mecha eldar/tau . nothing against against necron , nothing against lash builds , nothing against khan builds , has problems with even basic sm built that run around with gate or drop pods . He is ok against orks [as long they play nob biker builds] or gunline sm . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888365 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redbaron997 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Abby is a god, but an expensive arse god. The key to taking him in a list is to make sure you have a very points effective list for him to go with it. You can do it, but just like any list you have to ask yourself, "If abby and his termiantor body guard get blasted and never see combat, can you still win?" If yes, go for it if you really want, if no, forget it. A Regular Chaos Lord with Termi Armour & Daemon Weapon is much cheaper and still very effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 i use him fairly often in friendly games of 2000+ points and he always performs well, so by experience i say you can make him work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artangel Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I have never anyone pick a khorn lord with a demon weapon over Khârn . while it is true that the chaos specials arent that great , I would say Khârn is the best of them. I'm not normaly that brave to go for a Khorne Lord with a demon weapon rolling two dice and crossing fingers that neither is a 1 is pushing my luck. I will allways pick a Slanesh lord with a demon weapon ini 6 and instant killing 99% of named characters if you give them just 1 wound not to mention a 2+ save with terminator armour vs Kharns 3+ and he wont kill his own troops. No brainer for me they cost the same points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artangel Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 i disagree with him not "making his points back" and i'm not a fan of counting how effective a unit is by how many points it kills. Abaddon will kill as many points as you deepstrike him near, THEN he'll take a hell of a lot of fire before him goes down(depending on you getting him back into close combat if anything is within range) and will probably save a good few points worth of your own army that remains uncontested. I love Abaddon (in the Horus heracy) and I have used him a few times and he has never gotten into combat fast enough to do the damage. Deepstrike is just asking for trouble if you deviate you can A) die or :P be placed by the enemy in a position where you can do nothing usefull for 4 turns. If you land close enough to charge next go you will die as his whole army will open up on you with everything it has Abby is hard but not THAT hard:). I still beleive that he will not live up to his points value but still think he is the best HQ in the whole game just a tad pricey. Just my 2cp if you get a better result with him them cool:) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 that's why you deep strike him using a csm squad with icon being screened by a unit of lesser daemons ;) apply force in numbers, of coarse deep striking him blind into the middle of the enemy won't yield great results... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artangel Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 That will mean you will need to get the CSM squad where you want/need them taking maybe a couple of turns leaving abbadon 3 turns to get 275 points of kills to make him pay for himself providing he can actualy get the roll to come in on reserve anyway the amount of times my Termy squad has not made it down till turn 4+ is just not funny). Perhaps a Land Raider will work with a Termy retinue but as Jeske has allready said that 600+ points and thats just way to much to be effective in a battle. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 the bulk of your army should be csm squads so not really a problem and means you can place them were it suits you whenever you roll for reserves. your hoping they come down on the same turn as a unit of daemons that can assault and buy Abaddon a turn before he piles in, i'm not gonna claim it's a sure fire winner and works 100% of the time but it can work more often than not, honestly ( because i've done it several times) it's all very well coming up with theories but each and every game is different, things can happen that work in your favor and equally go against it. i pride myself these days on trying things that a few years ago i wouldn't, playing the same army list every week got boring and now i try to think/play differently to keep things interesting and thankfully the rest of my gaming group have adopted the same outlook. games have become more fun as a result and it's great to actually see some of the less popular units actually on the gaming boards and yielding ( from time to time) some surprising results. so much so we've starting calling them "wildcard" choices and has become somewhat of a competition between us to see who can be the most inventive ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/2/#findComment-1888668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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