eyescrossed Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 up to 16 attacks on the charge with mark of Khorne 16? 3 base attacks, +1 from MoK, then +1 from charging, then 12 if you roll lucky on the dice. That's 17 attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1888825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artangel Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 My mistake you are correct 17 attacks on the charge which = Total carnage or death for yourself on the roll of a 1 on 2 dice:). I have actualy had a Khorne lord kill himself on 3 rolls of a 1 on his demon weapon who says Khorne does not have a sence of humour:). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1888877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Luckily you can only ever take 1 wound from it in a single turn - you can take 2 with the Tzeentch one! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1888887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother gibson Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 abby is great when you can get 12 attacks if rolled right with some terms at his side but he is slow to get into combat i dont know much about Khârn cuz i dont use him much Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1890075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 You know, Abbaddon may be expensive, but give him a squad of Chaos Space marines and stick them all in a Landraider and you will have an attack force that is all but unstoppable. People look at it all wrong. They see Abbaddon and see his points cost and go "that is far too much!" but they forget that a Chaos Lord or Daemon Prince etc costs about half (or a little less actually) than him. You still need to put points into Chaos Space Marines and HQ choices, so the only extra cost is the 150pts extra for him. That is 1 squad or a vehicle. What you get is a model that will dominate any part of the board he is in. Against close combat themed armies you take the advantage as he will win combat against everything bar a big squad of Genestealers, and even then you can just shoot them! Assault armies will struggle to avoid him whilst in a Landraider in the centre of your lines. Against shooting lists, they will need to concentrate on your attack force with Abbaddon or else have an unstoppable model in their lines. This gives you an advantage; as you can predict relatively accurately what your opponent will target, leaving your other units free to get about their business... Can you honestly say that an extra 150pts on your Lord is not worth the fact you have a charcter that can own any game its in? Able to kill anything in the game one on one (perhaps not including the Nightbringer)? Able to wipe out entire units of Ork Nobz on his own? Able to dominate an opponents actions just to avoid him? With my loyalist force, I would much rather face a traditional Chaos list with 2 Daemon Princes and Obliterators etc than a list that includes Abbaddon in a Landraider! Mechanised units are immune to Lash, Daemon Princes can be dealt with by shooting and Obliterators are slow moving shooting units and easy meet for my fast moving assault troops, so I'm not scared of them like a Landraider that is difficult to stop (AV14 in 5th edition rocks) with a monster that I just can't beat in close combat! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1890860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cursed11 Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Put abbadon in a land rider with 4 slann bannered termies and its instant win, unless you ;) up and die with your LR. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1891248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Can you honestly say that an extra 150pts on your Lord is not worth the fact you have a charcter that can own any game its in? abadon unit cost . abadon + LR + squad for him . normal HQ cost DP with lash . Lord with wings + squad . DP with rot . Lord in LR with squad . the only one that cost more or less the same is the lord in LR rush build but that the 150 pts am not spending on abadon mean I can buy an extra lord for the other LR zerker unit . thats a huge buff . because two lords can cover more ground , are meta game against counter units + they kill more then abadon just because they will fight in double the number of hth phases [or should I say twice in every hth phase ??? ] . No unless it gives some big buffes no hth character with a treat range of 12" is worth 250 pts . [or 600+ for the whole set up] Able to dominate an opponents actions just to avoid him? If your run in to lash , or chaos with oblits/termis he will "dominate" one thing , priority target for 2 turns [or 4 if its lash] he will never see hth or kill one squad , max two squads and even then those are going to be non scoring units . this means max you will get out of it is 13/7 and a game like that may well mean lost tournament. Daemon Princes can be dealt with by shooting and Obliterators are slow moving shooting units and easy meet for my fast moving assault troops, so I'm not scared of them like a Landraider that is difficult to stop (AV14 in 5th edition rocks) with a monster that I just can't beat in close combat! how many points do you play , because am having problems with how its is possible to counter 6 oblits 4 rhino squads 2 DPs and 2x3 termis with loyalist force even , if they combat squad . sure oblits die and prince die too[unless your opponent dies real fast] , but when they do the loyalist player has around 1 or 2 scoring units when the chaos player has 3 or 4 . + if you playing against abadon with a mecha sm army why dont you just turbo boost/board rhinos and drive away from him ? I mean there is no fog of war in w40k after set up you clearlly see where unit X is going to be on turn one and two . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1891439 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I agree with Jeske entirely about Abby. Btw I played with Khârn last night and it was quite fun. He at first was joined with zerkers in a LR (duh), but then when I disembarked Khârn and the zerkers were both heading a different way: Khârn slaughtered an assault squad which had only 5 man left, next assault phase the chaplain of that same assault squad. Then in my own turn he slaughtered a bike squad too! Sure it wasnt great play of the other player, but I really like the fact that he can slaughter things on his own. But charching a full squad which has a fist in it, probably isnt the wisest thing to do. I also thought about joining Khârn with a thousand sons squad in a raider. Note: I dont care about fluff, not even a little. The 4+ invulnerable save helps against his Betrayer rule, the sons can use his assault qualities quite good, cause normally sons are in big trouble against MC's and Walkers. Any thoughts about this one? sure it isnt great, I can see that, but can it work a little? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1891552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 The fact that TS are as slow as dead hippos makes it not such a good idea.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1891553 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 If your run in to lash , or chaos with oblits/termis he will "dominate" one thing , priority target for 2 turns [or 4 if its lash] he will never see hth or kill one squad , max two squads and even then those are going to be non scoring units . this means max you will get out of it is 13/7 and a game like that may well mean lost tournament. Lash is not that good in 5th edition. Over powered in 4th edition, but with large numbers of transports and 5th edition survivability the units inside are immune until they disembark. In last years GT, in 6 games I only lost any Rhinos in 3 games, as opponents were focused on tackling my other units. I never lost a Rhino before it put it's squad in the right position (except once but we all have bad luck eh). How is Lash going to affect Abbaddon if he is in a Landraider until he charges? The answer is he isn't going to be affected. Incidently, I faced a Lash list last year and the guy never chose to use it once, as there were no opportunities for it. In 4th edition where Space Marines were largely footsloggers then yeah I can accept that Lash was great, but it's not so overpowered right now. how many points do you play , because am having problems with how its is possible to counter 6 oblits 4 rhino squads 2 DPs and 2x3 termis with loyalist force even , if they combat squad . sure oblits die and prince die too[unless your opponent dies real fast] , but when they do the loyalist player has around 1 or 2 scoring units when the chaos player has 3 or 4 . + if you playing against abadon with a mecha sm army why dont you just turbo boost/board rhinos and drive away from him ? I mean there is no fog of war in w40k after set up you clearlly see where unit X is going to be on turn one and two . 1,500pts. Easy, Landraider with some sort of assault unit, Rhino borne Tactical squads, 3 Dreadnoughts and anything else that takes my fancy. On a 6'-4' list there is only so much space to back away from anything, and objectives dictate that backing away results in losing the game. Besides, you just proved my point, if you do back away from Abbaddon then you are reacting to the opponents moves and allowing him to dictate the game on his terms - hence the value of the Abbaddon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1891621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 eyescrossed it makes no sense to call tousand sons as slow as dead hippo's, cause if you transport them in a LR, they can disembark normally and if you want to charge something in cover Khârn has to throw for diffucult terrain too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1891751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 if you browse the loyalist boards from time to time you'll see plenty posts with people asking for advice about how to counter abaddon and also mentioning what a pain in the ass he is to face, so he can't really be that bad eh? ;) However, I think best special character altogether would be Abaddon the game breaker. I've killed him twice, ever. I used to play against Chaos all the time and I managed to kill him the first time by having my entire Dark Angels force shoot him at once (with support from the Imperial Guard) and even that was close. Only other time was a complete fluke involving an assault against a venerable dreadnought with no CCW. Never seen so many 1's come up for armor saves... etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1891997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 Very good point. It is often that you overlook the positive strengths in your own army lists and only see the short falls, since it is the short falls you have to deal with while you try and minimise the strengths of your opponents. If you were to face Abbaddon you would find he isn't as weak as you assume. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1892113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artangel Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I dont think anyone would consider Abby weak he is the best H2H character in the whole 40K universe that you can legaly field. I think most of our problem with him is the cost of points he costs. If you take him on his own and run him up it will be turn 3 before he can do anything so he will have to kill 275 points of troops in maybe two turns thats alot of Ork, Gaurdians, IG even standard Marines he has to plow. You could use a Land Raider to get him up in maybe 2 turns with a squad of terminators thats 635 points assuming you give the terminators nothing special at all more likely to be 700 ish points with a mark and some hard hitting weapons thats 700 points for 5 people and a transport that will be toasted as soon as you get 12 inches away from a Multi melta. You dont need to kill Abaddon to win two thirds of your games are gonna be controling objectives and if your blowing half of your points on 5 people your going to lose every time. I find players put way to much faith in pricey HQ choices I field a Master of the forge for 100 points on my Imperial fist army leaving me lots of points free for troops and six Dreadnoughts:). I have allways found when I have fielded Abaddon he normaly does not perform for his points or he dies to mass bolter/sniper fire 2+ save is fine but if your rolling a bucket of dice for saves your gonna get those four one's at some point. Abby is Great but give me 2 Demon princes with wings or 2 Lords anyday they just cover more ground. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1892177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Why do you need to give Abbaddon an expensive bodyguard though? People think they do because GW photos him with such units, but if you stick one of your scoring units in there with him you have save on those expensive escorts for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1892277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyescrossed Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 eyescrossed it makes no sense to call tousand sons as slow as dead hippo's, cause if you transport them in a LR, they can disembark normally and if you want to charge something in cover Khârn has to throw for diffucult terrain too. Assaulting out of the Land Raider, they need to take a difficult terrain test, and if the sorceror's dead, they all move 1D6 a turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152162-abbadon-and-kharn/page/3/#findComment-1892284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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