Pimp my GM

[Cedric]

Being a returning SM player from 3rd ed, I miss the olden days where leaders and sarges acutually had a proper armoury to choose from, rather than todays standardised wargear.

 

As luck would have it, Daemonhunders are still a remnant of the 3rd ed. era, thus giving me my treasured armoury back.

 

How would you equip your GM's and/or BC's when you take them into battle?

[Gaz1858]

I have a GM with NFW(S6 and uses best Force Weapon rules so no one is immune &its free!!), Psycannon( so i can shoot 3 S6 AP4 shots on the way to the enemy or if playing a horde army,nids for example, can still provide a fair bit of firepower) Psychic Hood(Projects over whole board but isnt entirely neccessary), And either Holocaust or hammerhand depending how i feel. Sacred Incense is generally in there to as it is very cheap though not always useful when it is useful it kicks chaos butt!!!

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Nemesis Force Weapon, Power Sword, Hammerhand and a Holy Relic. Promptly proceed to kick ass with 6 Attacks charging or (for one turn) 6 Attacks without charging.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I own one unit of Terminators that when being a standard elites choice contains the following:

 

BC w/ thunderhammer, psycannon (utilizes free thunder hammer/storm shield swap, pay for psycannon to replace storm shield), 1 termie w/ NFW and psycannon, 3 termies w/ NFW and storm bolters

 

As a HQ choice I typically swap the thunder hammer for a daemon hammer (its only 5 points difference as the HQ doesn't get the thunder hammer/storm shield swap), then I utilize destroy daemon, bionics, grimoire of true names, sacred incense, unguents of warding. I find the GM to be a more effective HQ than the BC, and I DON'T use the NFW on the Grand Master, I continue to use the daemon hammer.

 

I like it, but I'm a little non-standard :wallbash: He chews up daemons though like no tomorrow...

[Cedric]

Nemesis Force Weapon, Power Sword, Hammerhand and a Holy Relic. Promptly proceed to kick ass with 6 Attacks charging or (for one turn) 6 Attacks without charging.

 

 

From what I read, you don't get an additional CC attack for combining 2 different "special" CC weapons.

 

A Nemesis Force Weapon and a power sword would both fit under the category special, and have different rules/effects, thus counting as different.

 

Or have I misunderstood the 5th ed CC rules?

[benmothershaw]

I usually choose a Grand master, then give him: Grey Knight Terminator retinue + Incinerator (can no longer be picked out), Hammerhand (great against walkers), Maybe incinerator on him.

Thats all really.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

Cedric Posted Today, 06:14 PM

From what I read, you don't get an additional CC attack for combining 2 different "special" CC weapons.

 

A Nemesis Force Weapon and a power sword would both fit under the category special, and have different rules/effects, thus counting as different.

 

Or have I misunderstood the 5th ed CC rules?

 

You are probably right, but this combo was born in 4th. ed, so thats what I refer to. Its one of the problems of not being able to buy basic CCWs for Terminators. Then again, the NFW is a Power Weapon+ , so I could try the hardcore RAW trick and say they don't both have effects that the other doesn't. Anyway, the combo still stands regardless of Attacks since i'm not about to dismantle my heavily-converted GM.

[number6]

I almost always give my GK Hero a psycannon. It's points well spent, all the time. Of course, I rarely slot my GKTs/GK Hero as a pure assault unit, so the shooting boost is definitely welcome. If you're packing your GK Hero with a retinue into a land raider ... you don't need the psycannon. (Though it still wouldn't hurt to have it.) A psychic hood finds its way into most of my lists now, too. Either on the GK Hero or onto an Inquisitor Lord. Thanks to codex uncreep, we have the best psychic defense in the game. If I have a few points to spare, sacred incense is also a good choice.

 

I've long since soured on the GM, and each successive 40K codex only serves to reinforce my opinion of the model. Too expensive for too little; he just doesn't stack up to the modern era's HQs. I'm not talking about named characters, either, even just the vanilla HQs from recent codexes are significantly more potent per point than the GM. I stick with a BC exclusively, nowadays. But if I were to field him, just for fun (like in Apoc games), I'd give him a psycannon, a psychic hood, icon of the just, and sacred incense. Nothing more is needed.

[Wolf89]

Nemesis Force Weapon, Power Sword, Hammerhand and a Holy Relic. Promptly proceed to kick ass with 6 Attacks charging or (for one turn) 6 Attacks without charging.

 

 

From what I read, you don't get an additional CC attack for combining 2 different "special" CC weapons.

 

A Nemesis Force Weapon and a power sword would both fit under the category special, and have different rules/effects, thus counting as different.

 

Or have I misunderstood the 5th ed CC rules?

 

Yes you are Correct Cedric, you wouldn't get the extra attacks. I also don't like wasting a NFW on giving him a power weapon, what's the point? just give him either a standard stormbolter to keep things cheap, or psycannon if you need the extra shooty. ;)

 

As for my build, it's usually cheap and if anything the only thing I add to what he already has is a psychic hood if I'm using them in a tournie, or some psychic power maybe both, but keeping my HQ's cheap is something I do for my wolves as well.

[Tauren]

Dirt cheap... Psycannon unless mounted in a land raider. Psychic hood, and maybe incense and/or holy relic.

 

Nothing like revealing, at least from what I hear, the holy relic to have your terminators slaughter stuff either on your turn or theirs.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I've long since soured on the GM, and each successive 40K codex only serves to reinforce my opinion of the model. Too expensive for too little; he just doesn't stack up to the modern era's HQs. I'm not talking about named characters, either, even just the vanilla HQs from recent codexes are significantly more potent per point than the GM. I stick with a BC exclusively, nowadays. But if I were to field him, just for fun (like in Apoc games), I'd give him a psycannon, a psychic hood, icon of the just, and sacred incense. Nothing more is needed.

 

I think he stacks up pretty well. I mean, he can force-weapon anything, packs all the GK rules onto him, and comes out less than a Terminator Epistolary (who is very similiar, given that 'Might' turns him into a -2A mini-Grandmaster).

 

I have two builds; one for killing mundane targets, one specifically for smiting Daemons;

 

Grandmaster, NFW, bionics

GKT w/NFW+incinerator, GKT w/NFW+storm bolter, 2 x GKT's w/TH+SS

(354 points)

 

Load them into a Crusader, dump them into enemy lines. I don't plan on spending much time shooting, just a quick volley of storm bolter+incinerator then into combat.

 

Grandmaster, NFW, daemonhammer, sacred incense, grimoire, 'Destroy Daemon'

GKT w/NFW+incinerator, 2 x GKT's w/TH+SS

(358 points)

 

Lose the vanilla dude to pay for the Grandmaster's toys. Grandmaster scores a wound on Daemon, stuns it, allows the rest of the unit to slap it silly until it dies.

[Skytear]

Nemesis Force Weapon, Power Sword, Hammerhand and a Holy Relic. Promptly proceed to kick ass with 6 Attacks charging or (for one turn) 6 Attacks without charging.

 

 

From what I read, you don't get an additional CC attack for combining 2 different "special" CC weapons.

 

A Nemesis Force Weapon and a power sword would both fit under the category special, and have different rules/effects, thus counting as different.

 

Or have I misunderstood the 5th ed CC rules?

 

Yes you are Correct Cedric, you wouldn't get the extra attacks. I also don't like wasting a NFW on giving him a power weapon, what's the point? just give him either a standard stormbolter to keep things cheap, or psycannon if you need the extra shooty. ;)

 

As for my build, it's usually cheap and if anything the only thing I add to what he already has is a psychic hood if I'm using them in a tournie, or some psychic power maybe both, but keeping my HQ's cheap is something I do for my wolves as well.

 

I dug this up - I think it's possible to get +1 Attack on your GK Hero, with the - two of the same special weapon rule - in the BBB.

The Nemesis Force Weapon counts as an Energy Weapon, so if it's used as in conjunction with his force sword. I actually think that it gives +1 A, under that rule.

 

 

What do you guys think? Sure 15 Points for an extra force weapon attack at ST6 is some points, but I think it works.

If I'm horribly wrong however, enlighten me :)

[revnow]

Why spend 15 points for a power sword for +1A when you can just take a Storm Shield for 10 pts and you get +1A and a one shot +4 invul?

 

My loadout is Psychic Hood, Sacred Incense (this will come in very handy against Daemon Princes as C:CSM grows increasingly popular), Storm Shield and Melta Bombs.

[number6]

As noted, power weapons do not allow a GM to gain an extra melee attack in 5th edition. None of the one-handed weapons in the DH Armoury would allow for it ... except possibly the Storm Shield. The rules don't explicitly say that it "counts as" a one-handed weapon, and it's not an offensive weapon like a pistol or CCW. But at the very least, there is an argument to be made that a SS would allow the model bearing it to benefit from an additional melee attack.

 

RAW being what it is these days, I could also see arguments being made against it.

 

I would personally allow for the SS to allow +1A, seems fair and within RAW to me ... but that is no guarantee that anybody else would see it that way. As with many things where the DH and RAW are concerned, be prepared for disagreement.

[Lord Cornilius]

I've long since soured on the GM, and each successive 40K codex only serves to reinforce my opinion of the model. Too expensive for too little; he just doesn't stack up to the modern era's HQs. I'm not talking about named characters, either, even just the vanilla HQs from recent codexes are significantly more potent per point than the GM. I stick with a BC exclusively, nowadays. But if I were to field him, just for fun (like in Apoc games), I'd give him a psycannon, a psychic hood, icon of the just, and sacred incense. Nothing more is needed.

 

Really! Wow, I think just the opposite, especially compared to the new Space Marine HQ's. I mean a vanilla Space Marine Captain with Terminator armour is 140 points and lacks a nemesis force weapon, GK special rules, an attack, and the biggest bonus of all The Retinue Rule which turns The Man into a extremely hard to kill IC. I find that the GKGM has become an extremely good value and has only let me down once, when he whiffed all 5 attacks against a Warboss.

[honersstodnt]

I usually pack my GM as such...

 

Grandmaster

 

Sacred Incense

Icon of the Just

Hammerhand

 

totals at 190 points... but can threaten anything!

[revnow]

As noted, power weapons do not allow a GM to gain an extra melee attack in 5th edition. None of the one-handed weapons in the DH Armoury would allow for it ... except possibly the Storm Shield. The rules don't explicitly say that it "counts as" a one-handed weapon, and it's not an offensive weapon like a pistol or CCW. But at the very least, there is an argument to be made that a SS would allow the model bearing it to benefit from an additional melee attack.

 

Could you clarify on this number6? I'm fairly sure the rules do explicitly say that a power weapon counts as or is a one handed weapon.

[number6]

The problem is that 5th edition is that unless you are wielding two of the same type of CCWs, you are (often) not allowed to gain an additional melee attack. The issue comes up when the model is wielding anything other than a "simple" CCW. (Which pretty much covers only mundane CCWs and power weapons.) For example, if you have a power fist, the only way to get an additional melee attack is by being equipped with a 2nd power fist. Being equipped with a bolt pistol as your 2nd one-handed weapon no longer gives you that benefit. (Sorry, Black Templars!) The same rule applies to 1 lightning claw (must have a 2nd to get a bonus attack), a single force weapon, etc. A GK Character's NFW is considered to fall under this "special weapon" category, only it is impossible to equip a GK Character with a 2nd NFW. So there is virtually no way to give the model a bonus melee attack without "house ruling" or a bit of RAW interpretation ... as I mentioned with respect to Storm Shields.

[Narthecium]

Can someone clarify to me why the GMs force weapon can't be avoided with it's instakill? Doesn't the rule eternal warrior trump the definition of the weapon? I mean despite codex overruling rulebook (as GW has stated before or hinted at or w/e) is that really going to fly? I don't see where as it would and if I tried to pull that at my local store I guarantee they'd freak.

[Grand Master Iapetus]

Standard:

- Psycannon

- MC NFW

- SI

- GTN

 

Optional:

- Psychic hood (If I am not running one on a =][=)

- Holy Relic (mixed effect - you can only use it on a turn you haven't moved)

- Icon of the Just

 

But the most important one? The one I always run even if I don't add anything else?

 

Retinue...

[Grand Master Iapetus]

Can someone clarify to me why the GMs force weapon can't be avoided with it's instakill? Doesn't the rule eternal warrior trump the definition of the weapon? I mean despite codex overruling rulebook (as GW has stated before or hinted at or w/e) is that really going to fly? I don't see where as it would and if I tried to pull that at my local store I guarantee they'd freak.

 

I can see it both ways, but I tend to land about 75% on the side that it will remove any model if you pass a psychic test.

 

"Instant Death" is a specific rule in the 5e rulebook which refers to weapons where "Strength is Double the Toughness"

 

However, you have some weapons or attacks that are given the ability inflict "Instant Death" with no regards to strength or toughness. Force weapons in the 5e book reference this caveat specifically on both points.

 

"Eternal Warrior" specifically negates the "Instant Death" rule.

 

All 3 references in the 5e book are consistent.

 

Our codex never references the specific "Instant Death" rule AND never references toughness vs strength. It simply refers specifically to wounds being removed. (However, almost all the other wording is exactly the same.)

 

I would love to believe that GW planned it this way and is trying to balance an outdated codex until they can do an update, but I just think it is another oversight that leads to a really grey (pun intended) area. If you check out some of the other forums and sites, you will find them polarized both ways: pro and con.

 

I think there is an extremely plausible case to be made, especially when you consider all the other challenges a Daemonhunter army faces. GWs 5e FAQ and several entries in the 5e book reinforce the idea that the codex trumps rules (Smoke Launchers are a prime example).

 

All that being said, I really wish we could get a more inclusive FAQ for our codex so that we can throw down on the gaming table with our models instead of our opponents...

[Hinti]

I support this 100% !!!!!!!

 

@Topic:

My GM usually goes with:

MCW

and as written allways with Retinue!

 

What the Hell is Psychic Hood?

[Auedawen]

Yep, the smoke launchers is pretty much the biggest reason to go with the rulingthat our Force Weapon is somehow special and different, and insta-gibs models. However, if your opponents disagree (and you can't come to a conclusion with in store referees) then it's not all a lost cause. There are some rules that our outdated codex is lacking in, Thunderhammer/stormshields is one (and this is becoming a bigger and bigger deal now a days). I'd say overall it's best for us to use the codex > rulebook method, however all isn't lost when someone disagrees.

[number6]

Yep, the smoke launchers is pretty much the biggest reason to go with the rulingthat our Force Weapon is somehow special and different, and insta-gibs models. However, if your opponents disagree (and you can't come to a conclusion with in store referees) then it's not all a lost cause. There are some rules that our outdated codex is lacking in, Thunderhammer/stormshields is one (and this is becoming a bigger and bigger deal now a days). I'd say overall it's best for us to use the codex > rulebook method, however all isn't lost when someone disagrees.

Agreed, but I think it's fair to insist on consistency of approach. For example, if your opponent is dogged about RAW and Codex >> BRB, then they have no leg to stand on with respect to DH Force Weapons. They will automatically slay any model in the game ... that's the RAW in this case.

 

It is, of course, perfectly acceptable to house rule that DH Force Weapons cause Instant Death instead yet leave all other Codex RAW rules in place as is. But that needs to be agreed upon before any dice are rolled.

 

It's worth noting that the 4th edition game mechanic of resolving rules disputes via a die roll no longer exists! In the 5th edition BRB, that has been replaced with a specific rejoinder that Codex rules always override BRB rules. So what's new is that the default is not random chance to resolve agreement, but RAW alone. Obviously, you could agree to resolve rules disputes via a die roll, but that mechanic itself needs to be agreed upon before any dice are rolled, as that is now a house rule and not part of the actual game rules!

[Bulgrim]

Yep, the smoke launchers is pretty much the biggest reason to go with the rulingthat our Force Weapon is somehow special and different, and insta-gibs models. However, if your opponents disagree (and you can't come to a conclusion with in store referees) then it's not all a lost cause. There are some rules that our outdated codex is lacking in, Thunderhammer/stormshields is one (and this is becoming a bigger and bigger deal now a days). I'd say overall it's best for us to use the codex > rulebook method, however all isn't lost when someone disagrees.

Yes, but how do you pull that trick? (And please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just catching up with my DH in 5th.) Smoke launchers, and force weapons, are clearly viewed in BRB. How do you make them work under USR rules of any codex specifics takes precedence?