Non-Dec transport and deployement

[King_Pash]

Hey guys,

 

Quick question: can a unit deploy inside a non-dedicated transport? eg. can a squad of tacticals deploy inside a Land Raider Crusader or do they have to waste time embarking in the first turn?

[greatcrusade08]

Hey guys,

 

Quick question: can a unit deploy inside a non-dedicated transport? eg. can a squad of tacticals deploy inside a Land Raider Crusader or do they have to waste time embarking in the first turn?

 

A unit can only start the game inside their own dedicated transport. But a unit can use any transport vehicle during the game, so the answer would be they have to embark on the first turn

[nighthawks]

there was a lot of discussion about this recently, but I'm not in the mood to search it out.

 

short answer is that most seem to agree that you "should" be able to start embarked upon a non-dedicated transport, but there is no rule specifically allowing it, so no. many argue that related rules suggest that you can, though.

 

chat about it with your opponent pre-game.

[Skoby]

I would say no it's not in the rules but fluffwise is entirely reasonable, but talk to your opponents most people would agree it is reasonable to allow it but it's better to be honest and check first, even if they say no it's better than them thinking you're unfairly twisting the rules.

[Mordekiem]

The rules do not explicitly say you can, however, there are many inferences that you can. And pretty much no inferences that you can't. IMo it is one of those common sense things that GW felt they didn't need to explicitly spell out.

 

If you want all the arguments there was a thread recently about this.

 

I believe this was the thread...

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...mp;hl=transport

[rekrulcinam]

This is actually not that difficult of a problem...

 

Pg. 94, BRB, under Preparing reserves:

Similarly, the player must specify if any transport vehicle in reserve is carrying any of the infantry units and/or independent characters in reserve.

 

This would indicate that infantry may arrive from reserves inside of a non-dedicated transport.

[nighthawks]

the OP wants to know where the rule allowing deployment inside of a DT can be found. the problem is that there is no explicit statement, such as you have found for reserves, that allows it.

[rekrulcinam]

the OP wants to know where the rule allowing deployment inside of a DT can be found. the problem is that there is no explicit statement, such as you have found for reserves, that allows it.

 

Actually, there is. If you'll read the entry in the rulebook discussing deployment, you'll find this out.

 

A unit cannont be deployed in, or come from reserves in, another unit's dedicated transport. Period. During the first turn, you can move them into it. It's all in there, you just have to read it.

[Falafel]

Yes well I'd like to stick my command squad and vanguard veterans in my (heavy support slot, not dedicated transport) land raider. Seems common sense to me they don't walk for miles up to the starting line because they can't embark before that. They may just as well have left the damn raider at home and bring some more mates along for some good singing on the march. "MICKEY MOUSE, MICKEY MOUSE!"

 

Since the rules on deploying in dedicated transports and transports in reserves are clear, I'd say it's so obvious GW omitted to write it down.

 

I'd let you.

[nighthawks]

the OP wants to know where the rule allowing deployment inside of a DT can be found. the problem is that there is no explicit statement, such as you have found for reserves, that allows it.

 

Actually, there is. If you'll read the entry in the rulebook discussing deployment, you'll find this out.

 

A unit cannont be deployed in, or come from reserves in, another unit's dedicated transport. Period. During the first turn, you can move them into it. It's all in there, you just have to read it.

your quote is for reserves, NOT deployment. yes, reserves do "deploy" when they arrive, but that is "arriving from reserves" which you will notice has a large heading in the BRB. pre-game deployment has no mention of a unit's ability to arrive embarked upon a non-dedicated transport. at all. the ability to come on within a dedicated transport is covered in the transports section, not deployment.

 

until officially clarified, there is no allowance for a unit to start the game on the table in a transport unless it is their dedicated transport. though most players will allow it as it makes sense.

[Mordekiem]

until officially clarified, there is no allowance for a unit to start the game on the table in a transport unless it is their dedicated transport. though most players will allow it as it makes sense.

Not true. A FAQ is not needed to make a legitimate argument that you can start units in a non-dedicated transport. There are many many inferences that you can and no real clear cut statement that says you cannot. So a very valid argument can be made from a RAW perspective. It is just grey enough area that someone can make an argument either way.

[nighthawks]

inferences do not a rule make.

 

there are inferences to a single marine with a bolter taking down whole hoards of [insert most hated xenos here] but you'd be hard pressed to wipe out so much as a unit of Eldar guardians with one marine within the rules. remember that it is a permissive rule set, and that while everyone agrees to allow for transports to be used a the start of the game, it's not ACTUALLY and official rule. so what I said IS true.

[greatcrusade08]

Heres what i have garnered from this discussion so far.

 

A unit cannot deploy in another units dedicated transport (wife jokes not welcome :lol: )

 

But the questions people are skirting around are as follows:

 

a : Can any unit (example command squad) deployt within a non dedicated transport (example land raider)

In the new codex LR's are listed under the HQ section as well as heavy support, so it does seem to suggest you can start HQ's in a HQ transport, but again without the words dedicated transport we have to follow RAW.

Although under terminator sections you can take LR's as a dedicated transport and you can attach an IC before the game.

 

b : Can a unit with a dedicated transport deploy in a non dedicated transport (i.e land raider)

Im not sure on this as the transport and the unit have to set up together, how can they do this when the unit is not in the table!

 

GC08

[rekrulcinam]

I didn't skirt the subject at all. If you'll read the portion in the reserves section where it talks about the organization of reserves, you'll see that it clearly allows for units to deploy in non-dedicated transports. Nighthawks is just side-barring by saying that it's in one section or the other. Look in reserves. It's there.

[nighthawks]

Rekrulcinam, by this logic you can choose to shoot in the movement phase. the rules for reserves are NOT the rules for deployment.

 

GC08 - the "understood" answer to all of your questions is yes. the RAW answer is no. (unless they are in reserve)

 

and as you noted, a dedicated transport may only ever deploy with the dediacted unit inside it or empty, no one else.

[greatcrusade08]

Rekrulcinam, by this logic you can choose to shoot in the movement phase. the rules for reserves are NOT the rules for deployment.

 

GC08 - the "understood" answer to all of your questions is yes. the RAW answer is no. (unless they are in reserve)

 

and as you noted, a dedicated transport may only ever deploy with the dediacted unit inside it or empty, no one else.

 

Thanks Nighthawks that how i saw it too.

Ive found that deductive reasoning has become prevelant of late on the B&C for discussing rules. Its my opinion that unless you are in a freindly game and both sides couldnt care then all rules should be RAW, if there is an obvious problem or ommision with the rules then we could probably badger someone into an FAQ.

Of course this still leaves a lot of room for interperation as some quotes can contradict others or be misleading.

Remember if you want to use a rule you could be asked to provide a reference, if all you have is common sense and reasoning you wont get far.

Please dont think im being rude or im telling you what to do, this is just an opinion, but it would make 40K a lot easier to play if everyone played by the same rules dont you think?

 

GC08

[maniclurker]

Oh, jeez. Attention to detail, I do not have it... After scanning the rulebook, I'd actually have to agree with nighthawks, it doesn't say anywhere that you CAN deploy in non-dedicated transports. I was getting reserves and deployment mixed up. (Sorry, I was underway, without a rulebook)

 

However, if you'll read the box on page 67 entitled DEDICATED TRANSPORTS, you'll see that they describe a dedicated transports only limitation is that it can only deploy with the unit that it was selected for inside. This indicates a few things:

 

What is it a limitation to, if non-dedicated transports cannot have units deployed in them? In this case, it is most certainly NOT a limitation. In fact, it would be called an advantage to be able to deploy units in them.

 

As such, I'd have to disagree with nighthawks that you can't deploy units in them by RAW. Because, if you read the entry, it definitely indicates that you can deploy units inside of non-dedicated transports. It just doesn't come out and say that you can.

 

Also, I'd have to refer back to the reserves section as a little support for this stance, as the book relates deployment and reserves very closely.

[Hexx]

Again (as in the other topic mentioned)

 

I (and most players I'd assume) would never stop anyone from edoing it. But nothing, absolutely nothing-in the rules *says* you can do it.

 

The only argument anyone can put forth to support the idea is based on interpretations and ommisions from other rules.

 

It's actually a fairly simple question

-Is there a rule that allows you to deploy your units in a non dedicated transport at the start of the game?

No.

 

 

Did GW intend there to be? probably

Will it be faqd in? I'd assume so.

 

But-as it stands there is not a rule. So yes, your opponent can legitimately deny you the ability to deploy this way at the start of the game.

(I'd suggest a punch in teh head if they do so.. but that's for you to decide)