The Emperor's Champion Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 I'm just reading the spoiler bits and I'm not remotely surprised by any of it. Honestly I'm constantly amused by how everyone constantly underestimates just how freakishly awesome his mad skills actually are. The exchange between Dorn and Malcador heavily implies that the 2 lost Legions are not destroyed, but rather locked away somewhere. It truly does make me wonder what in the world it is that they did..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1791602 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Or did or went somewhere inaccessible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1791699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalfedan Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Or did or went somewhere inaccessible. I know it's a long-shot, but maybe the empy was massing around with his webway portal thing, sent those 2 legions in and then lost them, that could explain the legion of the damned in a way. (I think) My copy of Mechanicum came today but have to wait till christmas to read it, it's one of my pressies. EDIT: spelling Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1792237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAtrox Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I don't understand how the Emperor is St. George...where are we getting this from? Oh right...dragon slaying... :) Wasn't Saint George born in Bithnyia, Turkey? Same place the Emperor was born? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1794472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted December 3, 2008 Author Share Posted December 3, 2008 The Impression I got was that the St George myth goes back to Lybia, that was why it fitted. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1794825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I'm going to assume that getting this and Titanicus for £15 for Xmas was one of the best presents I could have asked for. Not reading the spoilers, but this sounds very interesting. As for the 2 Lost Legions - my money is on a Webway cock up, or possibly Necrons? After all, it took about 5 Chapters, one of which was destroyed to stop a Single Necron vessel. They've laid waste with limited numbers. Perhaps they awoke a Platinum Tomb World, and paid the price... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1794842 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Of Sparta Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Finished Mechanicum this morning, now I feel like crying, no more Heresy goodness til next year now :D It was a great book though, and the ending was fantastic! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1795063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ansgar Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 **Spoiler** Who took the book from the dragon room!? **Spoiler** Really good read. Can't wait for the next book, but at least it gives me time to read through the first nine again! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1795204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Beetle Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 The exchange between Dorn and Malcador heavily implies that the 2 lost Legions are not destroyed, but rather locked away somewhere.It truly does make me wonder what in the world it is that they did..... I got the same feeling, as though Dorn could just make a phone call and ask for their help and they would come running. That they want to be a part of the big picture but are not allowed. Great read. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1797566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 I'm enjoying it, I really am. McNeil's really done well with this one. The anticipation is killing me, and finals are coming up so I don't have much time. As you all might (or likely didn't) notice, I haven't been on in a few days, and just slogged through 26 pages of View New Posts... And as with all the Horus Heresy series, it's got those moments, you know, when you know what's happening ten thousand years later that makes what's happening on the page so damn significant, ironic, and/or sad... I mean, when we saw Khârn I kinda felt like I got socked in the gut, because I knew what he would end up as. And all this interplay with the Lectitio Divinatus and the Imperial Truth... same thing. Awesome series overall (BftA notwithstanding, and even that had some good bits), and I can't wait to finish this one/I don't want this one to end. You know. I mean, what I mean. Good book so far. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1797589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notlage Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 **Spoiler** Who took the book from the dragon room!? **Spoiler** Really good read. Can't wait for the next book, but at least it gives me time to read through the first nine again! Yeah, I'd like to know this too...after reading the last two pages, it made it seem like the reader, knowing things that happened 10,000 years later, would understand what had happened in the future and it would all make sense. Do we know who the next guardian of the dragon is, and why it is too late around the year 40K as the 'damage was done'? Is there more information on the VD under mars aside from C:Necrons? Plus, it's nice to pick on Necron players now, as I like to say to those who emperor bash: Mars is a tomb world, but it wasn't until the emperor made it one by beating up your star god.... Any help from those who know better on these questions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1797839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elenaria Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 Like a person said, it's awesome to see all these little bits and pieces that echo through the series, and throughout the fluff... picking up "Horus Rising" again was almost like a new experience. I love re-reading books when they're written with tidbits and threads like the HH books are. And regarding the darkened text spoileriffic bits, well, the answer, to me, seems to be right there... I hate it, but I think that's the way it is. I suspect I'll have to go around diving deep in all the other books to get some sort of vague confirmation. In all... the HH books don't answer all questions - but they certainly liven up the whole event! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1798562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Of Sparta Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Is there not a bit in codex necrons that mentions a necron ship landing on mars and then fleeing shortly afterwards? ***spoiler I think that it must've been either caxton or the other surviving techpriest who took the book from the cave as they were the only ones who could have taken it weren't they? spoiler*** I agree with Notlage it does seem that we're supposed to already know who took it and why it's so bad 10,000 years later. I'm gonna try rereading everything I can to find out why this is. Maybe someone could help me out? James Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1799682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 In the BFG fluff, five Necron Shroud-class ships launched a "suicidal" attack on Mars and were destroyed. Is that what you are thinking of? Maybe they were attempting to recover/destroy said book. Then again, there are some truly obscure references to the future in Mechanicum, like the Imperator Aquila Ignis and its reference to DOW:Dark Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1799718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Of Sparta Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 That could be what I was thinking of, but I'm not sure.... thanks Tyrak. But I'm still not 100% certain why we, the readers are supposed to know what's going on. Unless I'm really, really dense, which I'd like to think I'm not, I just can't get my head around it...and it's probably blindingly obvious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1800882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikolai Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 yea im on the same wave length i dont understand what significance this book has! can someone plz clear it up as i was confused at the end. though it did get me thinking about the rest of the series! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1801180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Beetle Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Looking back on it, we may be thinking about the ending in the wrong context. We're looking at it trying to figure out how it connects to 40k, when it may just be giving us a heads up on something about to happen. That would actually be a better treat, taking part in the game while the event that was too late happens. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1801198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperialis_Dominatus Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Page 11 of the Necron Codex has details on the incident regarding the Noctis Labyrinthus. Basically a couple of Necron ships fought like hell through Mars' defenses and one touched down. All were destroyed, the area was made into a Perdita zone, and various factions within the Mechanicus are fighting about how to deal with it. Thought it might be pertinent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1801199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tank18 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 i thought the book was amazing, even if it didnt have astartes in it much. Here is who took the book IMHO i think Zouche took the book. They describe him as placing truth above all else, and dont they say something about people who value the truth would spread it no matter the cost? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1801265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pig Of Sparta Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Page 11 of the Necron Codex has details on the incident regarding the Noctis Labyrinthus. Basically a couple of Necron ships fought like hell through Mars' defenses and one touched down. All were destroyed, the area was made into a Perdita zone, and various factions within the Mechanicus are fighting about how to deal with it. Thought it might be pertinent. that's the bit I was talking about! well done that man B) I also agree with Blue Beetle, maybe we are looking at this wrong. Perhaps we'll here more about the surviving Knights and techpriests in a later book. *** Perhaps Zouche did take it and was later killed as a heretic by the Inquisition in it's infancy? don't want anyone finding out too much about the Emperor's past do we.... *** Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1801392 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAtrox Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Is the book the same book that later appears in Titanicus? Or part of the same book? I haven't finished reading yet so please excuse my (potential) ignorance - but that would certainly explain the sudden explosion of violence on Orestes. Having read Mechanicum right before Titanicus, it's pretty obvious that both books were written by authors in communication with each other. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1801545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notlage Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Is the book the same book that later appears in Titanicus? Or part of the same book? I haven't finished reading yet so please excuse my (potential) ignorance - but that would certainly explain the sudden explosion of violence on Orestes. Having read Mechanicum right before Titanicus, it's pretty obvious that both books were written by authors in communication with each other. Great, gotta go by Titanicus now...I was looking for an excuse anyway, so thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1802168 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleth Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 One thing I wanted to mention, it's not just St. George that could have been referenced when it came to The Emperor. There are dozens and dozens of creation myths that revolve around the slaying of Dragons, as mentioned around page 209-215. I might not have made it far enough to specifically get to a direct reference to St. George I did find the "dream" sequence Dalia had very interesting, that she could touch such a beings mind and not go totally insane, or be affected by it is rather remarkable. I was also amused by the term scrap code since it also seems to resemble a virus and the direct word of Chaos in Lingua Tecis, it is a neat little idea. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1802227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Commander Vespasian Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 One thing I wanted to mention, it's not just St. George that could have been referenced when it came to The Emperor. There are dozens and dozens of creation myths that revolve around the slaying of Dragons, as mentioned around page 209-215. I might not have made it far enough to specifically get to a direct reference to St. George Your right, you haven't read far enough yet. :) The historical St. George was a Tribune in the guard of Emperor Diocletian (284-305 A.D.), who refused to accept Pagan religion and so was beheaded outside of Nicomedia in 303 A.D. However this raises some chronological anomalies. The myth of the slaying of the dragon took place in what is now thought to be Cyrene, with this myth being first brought back by the crusaders in the 11th century-the same time period as it happens in Mechanicum. So the book in Mechanicum has either mixed up the chronological details of this; which could be expected from the fragmentary historical sources that manage to survive into the 31st Millenium. Or the Emperor was the St. George that was seemingly beheaded in 303 A.D. In which case, he did not die and instead chose to continue to use this persona, at various points throughout the subsequent centuries. Untill in the 11th century in the guise of St. George he confronts the Void Dragon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1802941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Antonius Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 As an avid fan of the Imperial Fists, I would have thought that Malcador and Dorn would have wanted to fight harder to bring Mars back into the fold. I was hoping for more Astartes action...not just a brief over view. I mean Captain Camba-Diaz could have had a couple of chapters talking about how his landing and holding the drop site was overly difficult for the Astartes of Dorn. I mean, did he survive the ordeal or did his 'company' buy the farm so that the precious ordnance and armor could be airlifted up to orbit? Why did Sigismund take that one Adept with him instead of leaving him to rot? I think the book also left alot of questions about the Titans on Terra during the defense of the Imperial Palace. Didn't they come from Mars? Which Legio were they from? Also, was all of Legio Mortis destroyed during the seige of the Magma City? Did they participate in the Seige of Terra? I don't think that Dorn's comments about 15 legions over 13 had anything to do with the 2 unnamed legions. He knew that only the Sons of Horus (XVI), Emperor's Children (III), Thousand Sons (XV), and Death Guard (XIV) were against the Emperor. That leaves 14 loyalist legions not counting the 2 unnamed. He was sending the Alpha Legion (XX), Word Bearers (XVII), World Eaters (XII), Iron Warriors (IV), Salamanders (XVI), Raven Guard (XIX), and Iron Hands (X) to deal with Horus and his traitors. The Space Wolves (VI) were already fighting the Thousand Sons. The Blood Angels (IX), White Scars (V), Dark Angels (I), Imperial Fists (VII), Ultramarines (XVIII), and Night Lords (VIII) were still technically unengaged as far as he knew if you didn't count them fighting for the Emperor liberating planets into the Imperium of Man. I think that Dorn was talking about the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons and thier ability to come and fight for thier Emperor. Only after the Istvaan V dropsite massacre the tides changed for the loyalists. The players revealed themselves to be for one side or the other. So, in none of that does that ever include the two unnamed legions (II and XI). As far as my opinion of the book...a great read and great tie-ins with other source material. Can't wait for the next installment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152515-mechanicum/page/2/#findComment-1802954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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