Grey knights acting wolfy?

[spectre312]

I know wolves lay out some monster beatings, and we're more than capable of handling our own. But has anyone tried out using a squad of grey knights here and there? or GKT's? I'm curious how it would work out. I would consider throwing in a knights Brother captain with a hood to get that unlimited range psyker cancel.

[Bran Scalphunter]

I've seen but never personally used GK in a Wolf army. Far too many expensive goodies in here as it is before adding them in. In theory they could be quite nasty, teleporting in using a Drop Pod's locator signal to not scatter so they can land near a juicy squad and unless blessed psycannon hell onto them. Mmmm... 6 S6 AP4 shots that ignore Invunerable saves from normal Knights, add another 2 from the Justicar if you upgrade him. Eat psycanonn bolts Xenos/Traitor/Heretic scum!

[Grey Mage]

Problem is, IIRC you cant get a brother-captain. You cant use an HQ slot for them... we have no non mandatory HQ slots and so can never take an allied HQ.

 

Lol, you do it the wolves way or get out of the way :D.

[Bran Scalphunter]

I didn't catch that bit, nice work there Grey! :D Yeah, no Allied HQ's in a Wolf List, as every single one of our HQ's is a mandatory choice that has to be made. Now to quote the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld:

 

No hood for you!

 

Edit: Fixed it since DB proved me wrong... so I guess it is Hood for You!

[Dark Bjoern]

Problem is, IIRC you cant get a brother-captain. You cant use an HQ slot for them... we have no non mandatory HQ slots and so can never take an allied HQ.

 

Lol, you do it the wolves way or get out of the way ;).

Nop. You have two options for the Brother Captain. First as a HQ and second as an elite choise. Every elite Terminator squad is led by a Brother Captain with full access to the DH armoury. And by the way both BC have the same profile, so it doesn´t matter if he´s HQ or elite.

[Grey Mage]

as I had said... IIRC. I havent looked at the GK book in a bit. That would be alot of fun to get some anti-psycher support. Beef should show up and tell us about the wonderous battles that GK have had beside the SW. I know theres been a few.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

ok put then it takes up one of our very valuable elite slots.

 

they can be good but its quite a point sink as each power armour model costs about 25 points

[spectre312]

I'm lookin at the points here, and it -seems- like a WGBL with 3 WG termies is roughly the same as a BC and 3 GKT. I think a normal knight is close to the same price as a Pack leader too. I'm seriously considering throwing one regular knights team in, with with psycannons on 2 knights and the justicar, and a WGBL with an assualt cannon. shrouding for cover, at 24 inches it would unload 4 rending str 6 ap 4,9 str 6 ap 4 ignores invuln saves, and 4 str 4 ap 5 rounds. 17 rounds at 24 inches, with ignored invulns, sounds pretty sexy for just 6 models.

[Wolf89]

I'm lookin at the points here, and it -seems- like a WGBL with 3 WG termies is roughly the same as a BC and 3 GKT. I think a normal knight is close to the same price as a Pack leader too. I'm seriously considering throwing one regular knights team in, with with psycannons on 2 knights and the justicar, and a WGBL with an assualt cannon. shrouding for cover, at 24 inches it would unload 4 rending str 6 ap 4,9 str 6 ap 4 ignores invuln saves, and 4 str 4 ap 5 rounds. 17 rounds at 24 inches, with ignored invulns, sounds pretty sexy for just 6 models.

 

Well a BC and 3 GKT are cheaper than a WGBL with 3 WG termies, however, you still need to purchase that HQ slot, so you're starting to get really expensive considering you're getting terminators that aren't attached to a wolf HQ and the extra HQ will cost you more points, so in essence the WGBL with 3 WG termies IS cheaper. :P

 

Now when you look at PAGK's we see that there is room to work with here. We have mandatory 1 GH unit (which is easy to fill) then getting more "troops" (key here in 5th believe me) you spending on average 7 points more per model (not including the justicar so him with his wargear is easily the same if not more than a WGPL). It's messy but it works... attaching a WGBL to the squad?... not fluffy to any meaning of the word, effective? oh yes.

[JEFF4i]

I've actually just recently used a Vindicare Assassin, certainly unique, and fun. I'll try and toss in a BC, see how I like it.

 

Interesting theory, with the Deep Strike of the GKs.

[Venter_Of_Russ]

Wait... I thought grey knights couldn't be combined with other space marine chapters?

[spectre312]

If you take the PAGK as troops, no deep strike. which i most certainly would. Now, with me, I'm comparing the prospect of a PAGK team with storm bolters, and shrouding to building a WGBG of the same size for him. I guess i can see the pagk costing a tiny bit more than wgbg in power armor, but did you do bolters and 1 power weapon? pagks only get a power weapon on the justicar, which annoys me. they should ALL be PW. it would make sense for the cost they have.

 

I bring this up mainly because there's alot of talk of using PAGK and GKT as honor guards for all the special characters over nilla side, and I think it could be effective here as well.

 

Oh, I was just pondering this, in a 2k point list, if you do 1500 points of sw, and then add on 500 points of knights do you need one more wolf hq also?

 

 

edit:5 x WGBG with bolters and ccw and 1 PW and no other upgrades is 140

4 x pagk w/ justicar, no upgrades is 150, but you do get the shrouding, a little more range, and they count as troops.

 

Venter, DH parent list can't use Knight and marines at the same time, any other army can use GK or SOB as long as they meet the requirements first.

[Vassakov]

The real problem is that GK's can't do anything that SW can do better... and cheaper.

 

What they really bring is an all round versitility that can plug a few minor holes but isn't game winningly effective (unless you are playing against Daemons, in which case there is the =][=, 2x Mystics, Sanctuary and 5 GK's, 2 Psycannons and Psy Bolts - and even then the sustained assault of the daemons is going to be a bugger) Want close combat awesomeness - BC's and WG TDA. Shootyness - GH's and Vehicles are a better bet. And cheaper. GK's are in all fairness probably needing fixing at least as much as we are. They are overpriced, burdened with almost useless special rules and have next to no AT firepower.

 

As an army in their own right, they are fairly good. But with Wolves - I'd leave them at home.

[spectre312]

Want close combat awesomeness - BC's and WG TDA.

 

 

I thought you couldn't have termies with BC's? But yes, I know what you're saying, it would be easier (and the models are cheaper) to just keep it pure wolf. I might do this later though, because variety is always fun.

[Utsujin]

Sustained assault doesn't exist anymore. Most of our (GK) special rules are null and void. The only ones that do work against demons are rites of exorcism. Everything else has no effect. IE no instability tests ect.

 

If anything, I'd just ally in a big group of GK termies. They're the ONLY unit in a GK army that is actually worth their points, and priced right. 6 more points for something with 1 more weapon skill, and strenght 6 power weapons, sign me up.

[Grey Mage]

Alright.... now I have to know how you worked in a vindicare assassin into your list. I remember being turked that I couldnt bring assassins with wolves..... howd you manage it?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

you can take a inquisitor as an elite choice from the DH list, a assassain from the WH i believe.

 

wolf lord kieran

[Ullr Direfang]

i ran grey knights once. started as just a squad of termies in my guard. were other then against some strange uber raptor from the days of old, they did ok to great. but when i made a DH army that was just GK, it did ok against chaos and necrons, but kinda fizzled out against anything else. the shroud for one, night fight with an extra d6, barely ever seemed to do good. the only real thing on could do with how i ran it was by deep striking everything, and hoping they lived to charge.

 

but they are a fun way of adding some "color" to an army and i am thinking of buying some more some time soon.

 

on the assassin note. the vindicare isn't really that great. maybe i just rolled bad but he usually killed 3 or 4 guys a game and usually nothing above a Sargent. i usually found that using his pistol killed more, basically the same thing, just better at actually kill things. the callidius i believe is the better one. i don't know how many times i have used one and got a charge on the first turn and caused major hurt.

[JEFF4i]

Vindicare is a brilliant choice if you use him correctly. Given that he can pick his targets, and the opponent cannot, is very handy if employed well.

 

I'm pretty sure it was legal, but when I used him with Wolves it was just in a friendly, toy-around game.

[Ullr Direfang]

the vindicare is a really good and useful assassin, i guess were i play every one knows about them so they never really get to shoot that much. even with infiltrate he maybe got 2 turns of good shots in before everything was out of the way. which is why i, IMHO, personally like the calli, infiltrate it 18 inches away, move one unit closer to you, hope for first turn, move shoot with template AP1 and charge with 5 ws5 power weapon+ attacks.

 

edit* the assassins are legal, you just have to use the codex that you are taking the inquisitor from, though i do believe that they are the same in both (the assassins not the inquisitors).

[Dark Bjoern]

as I had said... IIRC. I havent looked at the GK book in a bit. That would be alot of fun to get some anti-psycher support. Beef should show up and tell us about the wonderous battles that GK have had beside the SW. I know theres been a few.

You don´t need Beef to get the legends of old told. I´m a Rune Priest, too. So listen Brothers, i will tell you about young Logan Grimnar and Brother-Captain Aurellian.

It was in 499.M41, 500 years before the birth of Ghazhkull Mak Uruk Thraka, that the Space Hulk Devourer of Stars left the warp to bring destruction to the World known as Armageddon. On board had been noone less then Angorn, daemon primarch of the World Eaters, and his foul host. While the chaos forces made planetfall to Armageddon Prime half the PDFs changed their loyalty to Angorn and in many hives chaos cults arise. On Armageddon Secundus the Commander of the PDFs, Karlson, had reacted quicker and eliminated all questionable regiments before they had the chance to rebel. But the PDFs of Armageddon Secundus had not been on their own. No, our mighty Legion, under the command of the freshly elected Great Wolf Logan Grimnar had made it in time to Armageddon to bolster the defense of Armageddon Secundus and with them a full company of Grey Knight Terminators under the command of Brother-Captain Aurellian. While the remaining PDFs and the whole Space Wolves Legion stopped the onslaught of the chaos forces, the Grey Knights waited on board of their ship for the right moment. The moment came when Angorn and his retinue of twelve of the biggest and meanest Bloodthirsters, the universe had ever seen, appears. The Old Wolf send the signal and the mighty force of 100 Terminators teleported in to bring the righteous fury of the Emperor to His fallen Son. It was an epic battle that the world had not seen since the days of the Siege of Terra. Many Grey Knights lost their lives this day but they killed the Bloodtirsters while Brother-Captain Aurellian fought against Angorn. He banished him for 1000 years but to the price of his own mortal soul. Only 10 Grey Knight Terminators survived the battle. With the lose of Angorn, the summoned daemons disappaered back into the warp and the mortal forces of chaos fleed before the wrath of the Sace Wolves.

[Grey Mage]

Thank you Bjeorn. Id thought it was something like that. :).

 

Now I have a question: Do GK's that join up with use, or SoB for that matter, gain our abilities? Ala True Grit, Counterattack, Keen Senses....

 

My reason for asking is that Vulkan Hestan gives his abilities to them, and all models in our army get those rules.....

 

Im not actually hoping to use this, but rather to use the point to stop people from abusing Hestan.

[Dark Bjoern]

Thank you Bjeorn. Id thought it was something like that. :).

 

Now I have a question: Do GK's that join up with use, or SoB for that matter, gain our abilities? Ala True Grit, Counterattack, Keen Senses....

 

My reason for asking is that Vulkan Hestan gives his abilities to them, and all models in our army get those rules.....

 

Im not actually hoping to use this, but rather to use the point to stop people from abusing Hestan.

No, allies don´t get our abilities.

And no, not all models get the rules from Vulkan He´Stan (or any other special IC from C:SM). Only models with the special rules Combat Tactics can replace them with Vulkan´s Chapter Tactics. That excludes allies from other ´dexes. This also excluded vehicles cause they don´t have Combat Tactics, so no twinlinked flamers or melta weapons on dreads or Land Raider Redeemer.

[Wolf89]

Alright.... now I have to know how you worked in a vindicare assassin into your list. I remember being turked that I couldnt bring assassins with wolves..... howd you manage it?

 

I'm still trying to figure that out myself. I'd assume that they took an inquisitor from DH elites, then assassin from WH elites, but that's messy and leaves only 1 elite slot left for us wolves... not very powerful at that point.

 

Also note that the vindicare is amazing, even able to shoot at those in close combat, that's just nasty...

 

Someone made note of having to use the same codex for when taking assassins, well this would nullify our ability to take them considering it would take up 2 elite slots. However this isn't the case, as it only says "may only be chosen if an Inquisitor Lord or Inquisitor is also part of the force." it doesn't say it has to be from the same codex. I guess that's how they did it?

 

When I was comparing WGBG to GKT I was giving the WGBG terminator armor and such, note that our terminators cost easily 70 points per model.

[JEFF4i]

I took it from the WH Codex. He was the only ally from it I had at the time, and none from DH, at the time.