Negativity toward Sisters of Battle

[a-nesuto]

recently some (most) of the guys in my gaming group have been getting on my nerves, calling faith powers cheap, g**, and a lot of other things i cant write on here.. and when i play a game, they all coach my opponent and high five when "they" kill a Sister.

 

does anyone else have problems like these or is it just the jerks i game with?

[Melissia]

There's occasionally idiots who are delusional and think that the Ssiters are somehow overpowered. But they're just that, stupid, and more than likely have never actually tried to play a Ssiters force, put a SIsters army together, and so on.

[Tauren]

Gonna say this now... If they are being pissy, ignore them, it means that you probably are beating their ass by being a good general, something they are not and they simply blame it on a mechanic. It's like saying the all drop pod SM army is lame and telling your opponent how to beat it. On top of that tell them to @!#% themselves for interrupting your games.

[Lady_Canoness]

That's a little more of an extreme case than I'm used to, that much is for certain!

 

Granted, Sisters of Battle were pioneered in my area by Cryptomancer - a fine gent and admirable player - however he started out with a terrible losing streak that got so bad that playing against him was almost considered a sure-fire win. Then something changed, and all of a sudden Crypto was a hell of a force to be dealt with! There was some negativity at first, though that was usually directed towards his Canoness (who earned the ire of almost every other gamer out there - she inspired more fear than any other character I have ever met!)

Anyhow, back on issue. It is fairly common to get faith points referred to as 'Cheese Points' where I come from, though most of it is innocent enough as even people who are miffed by their Space Marines getting bbqpwned by Sisters (my bubby positively lost it when his Deathwing Terminators got deep fried by a dominion squad with divinely guided flamers) usually have the insight to agree that faith is a necessary part of a Sisters army, and though they all hate it, they respect it as both thematic and balancing for what would otherwise be an underpowered army.

 

Chances are that your group is either immature (like the little kids who bring 2 hammer-heads into a 750pt game...) or simply sore losers. Now, common etiquette would tell you to be agreeable and not to make that big a fuss about their negative attitudes... I say screw that! They want to moan and groan about your army?! So do it right back at them so they know what it feels like!

Or you can just tell them straight up to not be a bunch of <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>.

 

You have every right to stand up to poor-sports and <DELETED BY THE INQUISITION>, and in fact, I encourage you to do so.

[a-nesuto]

That's a little more of an extreme case than I'm used to, that much is for certain!

 

Granted, Sisters of Battle were pioneered in my area by Cryptomancer - a fine gent and admirable player - however he started out with a terrible losing streak that got so bad that playing against him was almost considered a sure-fire win. Then something changed, and all of a sudden Crypto was a hell of a force to be dealt with! There was some negativity at first, though that was usually directed towards his Canoness (who earned the ire of almost every other gamer out there - she inspired more fear than any other character I have ever met!)

 

Cryptomancer kinda sounds like me. lol

 

Anyhow, back on issue. It is fairly common to get faith points referred to as 'Cheese Points' where I come from, though most of it is innocent enough as even people who are miffed by their Space Marines getting bbqpwned by Sisters (my bubby positively lost it when his Deathwing Terminators got deep fried by a dominion squad with divinely guided flamers) usually have the insight to agree that faith is a necessary part of a Sisters army, and though they all hate it, they respect it as both thematic and balancing for what would otherwise be an underpowered army.

 

the group nid player calls DG cheese everytime i use it to kill his carnifex. this comes from a guy that plays twin linked Barbed Stranglers, a crap load of death spitters, and a carnifex at 500 points.

[Chengar Qordath]

Well, I think a lot of the problem comes from non-SoB players who simply don't understand the way the Faith system works, which I party blame on GW for making the rules more complicated than they need to be. Non-SoB players who don't understand the Faith system tend to greatly overestimate it's power and underestimate the effects of a limited Faith pool and how vulnerable the SoB are once that pool runs dry, which causes them to get annoyed.

[Melissia]

And an intelligent Sisters player will maximize and master the faith system to their advantage, but even then it doesn't necessarilly mean that they'll win consistently against every opponent.

[Lady_Canoness]

I think the real issue lies in how our army is unique in that we get army wide boosts that make a significant difference in our battle plans. They understand it (anyone who plays a Sister oponent would), but they are envious of it.

 

Marines have Combat Tactics and ATSKNF.

Orks have WAAAGH

Necrons have Well be back

Tyranids have Move Through cover

the list goes on....

its just that our faith is so much cooler and more effective ;)

[Silent Requiem]

Rule of thumb: Anyone who uses the words "cheesy" or "beardy" in a 40k context without irony or hearsay is a poor player. If they direct those words at you, congratulate yourself on having officially risen above their level.

 

Moreover, if those words are directed at any Inquisition army, said player has also demonstrated that they are the proud owner of an astonishingly low IQ. Feel free to offer to sell them a bridge somewhere.

 

-Silent Requiem

 

PS. I used to be more tolerant of these people, and try actually explaining things to them, even to the point of offering to switch armies for a game or two. I've learned, however, that this language is born of the same mindless prejudice that breeds racism, sexism, and other unpleasant "isms". As with those thought crimes, you can't educate people out of their prejudice, but you can stomp them so hard when it happens that they keep it to themselves next time.

 

If you think I'm overstating the case, I would ask you to think back to the reaction of some new/young player after his hard earned victory is dismissed by an older [deleted by the inquisition] as the obvious outcome of his playing an "easy mode" or "cheese" army. It crushes them, and ruins their enjoyment of the game/hobby. I'm nearly 30, and it still gets to me when people dismiss my efforts in such a way, an insecure teen might never come back to the hobby.

[Gentlemanloser]

Rule of thumb: Anyone who uses the words "cheesy" or "beardy" in a 40k context without irony or hearsay is a poor player. If they direct those words at you, congratulate yourself on having officially risen above their level.

 

I would have agreed, if it wasn't for facing three Falcon/Harly lists in 4th. Seriously, I would rather pack up my minis and do *anything* else than waste my time versus that crap. I'd have gone much further than "chessy" or "beardy" when seeing someone pull that out.

 

 

As for the new hate versus the sisters, it's all down to 5th's Troop changes.

 

Cheap 20 man (well woman) Troop choice, with a 3+ Armour save *and* a 3+ Invulnerable save for the squad when needed.

 

That's why people hate the Sisters.

[Melissia]

That 3+ save is impossible to achieve on a squad of 20 Sisters. As in, no, it cannot happen. You cannot roll lhigher than twenty with 2d6.

[Coppella]

Don't forget Exorcists. People love to complain about them. Here is my list for the local Hall of Heroes tournament, I attended on Nov. 15th. More than once I heard a couple gamers passing by my table, while chatting about how cheesy my list was.

 

Order of the Valorous Lady, Saint Coppella 1702pts

73 models

9 Faith points

HQ (394pts)- Canoness Okura - Blessed Weapon, Inferno Pistol, Cloak of St. Aspira, Book of St. Lucias, Litanies of Faith, frag. Celestian Retinue - Veteran Sister Superior, Plasma pistol, and Eviscerator. 8 Celestials: Heavy Flamer, Meltagun. Rhino - Storm bolter x 2, blessed ammo, Dozer blade.

Troop 1 (212) - Sisters of Battle Squad - Veteran Sister Superior, Book of Saint Lucius, Combi-flamer: 9 Sisters - Heavy Flamer, Flamer. Transport Repressor: extra armor.

Troop 2 (196) - Sisters of Battle Squad - Veteran Sister Superior, Book of Saint Lucius, Combi-flamer: 9 Sisters - Heavy Flamer, Meltagun. Transport Rhino.

Troop 3 (186) - Sisters of Battle Squad - Veteran Sister Superior, Book of Saint Lucius: 9 Sisters - Hvy Flamer, Meltagun. Transport Rhino.

Troop 4 (167) - Sisters of Battle Squad - Veteran Sister Superior, Book of Saint Lucius: 11 Sisters - Flamer, Meltagun.

Fast Attack (235pts) - Seraphim Squad - Veteran Sister Superior, bolt pistol, Eviscerator, Book of Saint Lucias: 7 Sisters, 2 Twin-hand flamers.

Heavy Support 1 (177pts) - Retributor Squad - Veteran Sister Superior, Book of Saint Lucius, Storm bolter. 7 Sisters, 4 Heavy Bolters.

Heavy Support 2 (135pts)- Exorcist

 

As I mentioned in the quick battle rep I did Here , I have no idea what so ever to improve the comp. score of this list.

So to answer the OP's question. Yes, I get a good amount of hate/contempt.

[WarriorFish]

In my experience, people go on about beards to hide the fact they're afraid of something. People would call my mechanised marines beardy* all the time, but that was just to cover up for the fact that they were afraid of my army and how good I was with it. It got to the point where I'd start mocking them by calling things beardy all the time until, well, nobody calls anything beardy now because in my gaming circle it's become a joke.

 

I'm probably one of the only people who can safely say "beardy" doesn't exist for me, because I mocked it out of existence! ;) Maybe it'll work for you.

 

So stand tall and proud, it means they're afraid of you. For me, they were afraid of my ability to re-organise my lines and the firepower I could bring to where I needed it - for you they're terrified of your ability to negate their strengths with your Faith.

 

So keep the Faith and just carry on gaming like a normal human being. Simple.

 

* chiefly an eldar player, no less. the irony wasn't lost on me, either. teh noes! AV11!

[Tauren]

I will say this though... If you use something enough people get annoyed and tell you to stop saying it... When they do you turn right back around with "You first chief..."

[Lady_Canoness]

Well, if you want to annoy those who slander you with cheese, try some of the following:

 

"PING!" whenever the invulnerable save is passed,

"SMITE!" whenever you totally spank some Space Marine with the blessed weapon.

"How many missiles do I get today? 6!?! I say 6!?! Weeeeeell, yes I do like six!"

"FAITH IT!" when you reach for the dice to deny your opponents cunnimg plan.

"Who's afraid of the Big Bad Battle Sisters? Those Space Marines look like good meat! Yaaaaaargh!" :P

and, the knock-off classic for beating back a superior opponent in a faith-stacked combat "Madness? THIS - IS - TERRA!!!"

 

:)

[Charred Heretic]

That behavior is poor sportsmanship, and I would simply state that.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the ill-feelings were generated by misuse of faith rules.

 

I think if you pointed out all of the limitations on faith, you'd dispell a lot of the the ill will.

Further to that, I'd point out all the obsolete wargear, as well as the stats/cost for a Priest, IST Sarge, and Mistress/Repentia.

[Sister Kyrie]

I often got crap for playing Sisters. Most of it was good-natured joking, but even that gets old after awhile. The store manager didn't like the army and seemed to take particular delite in killing my girls, and always cheered when his orks got to drop large templates of doom on them. The reason he gave for the dislike? They were too "grrr about the grrl power thing." He finally stopped giving me crap (or at least toned it down) when I explained to him that it REALLY took the fun out of the game for me when he did stuff like that (I have yet to win a game with the army, so hearing stuff like that while getting anihilated really sucked.).

 

Then there was the other guy at the store who never gave a reason for his behavior and even on one occasion shouted some very nasty things in my face for absolutely no reason. I'm glad he doesn't come to the store anymore.

[GTang]

That 3+ save is impossible to achieve on a squad of 20 Sisters. As in, no, it cannot happen. You cannot roll lhigher than twenty with 2d6.

It can happen with an attached Canoness who has Litanies. I've used that before.

 

Sadly, I'm not at the point where I'm winning enough games to be considered 'cheesy.' Eventually, I hope. :lol:

[Melissia]

That 3+ save is impossible to achieve on a squad of 20 Sisters. As in, no, it cannot happen. You cannot roll lhigher than twenty with 2d6.

It can happen with an attached Canoness who has Litanies.

Yeah, but then you're paying 25 points to be able to announce at the beginning of the shooting/assault phase that your squad has activated siad act of faith... for that phase only. And yes, you must announce at the beginning of the phase, before the enemy chooses targets and so on, and yes, it only lasts one phase.

 

Given the limitations of said wargear and tactic, it's not really as useful as it sounds when people say "3+ invulnerable saves", especially when considering that the Canoness' best equipment is for assaulting, not shooting, while Battle Sister squads are defiinitively shooting squads.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I just remind myself that they're just jealous because their armies, when painted up, don't look half as good as mine ^_^ It's easy for someone to make fun of things to make themselves feel better about various inadequacies and the like. The behavior I've noticed, is most of those type of people pick whichever army they feel is the most "powergamer" for the current couple of months, and switch armies at the drop of a hat if another one comes out with a "better" Codex. It's wonderful to beat the pants off of them with my "substandard" army through superior tactics and knowing how my own army works and having one that suits my playstyle :lol: Pick armies based on your actual preferences, playstyle, and which one just feels and looks cool to you and you wont go wrong.

 

I guess I'm just in a very good spot for gaming because I haven't had to deal with the behavior. I get all kinds of people asking "What is that?" then pointing at a Death Cult Assassin, my Inquisitor with her esoteric retinue, but no hate mongering. Most of that is reserved for Necrons around here, but its more of us hating to play against them because they're rock solid. We all have our own strategies for dealing with things so it doesn't come up as much.

 

For every player that seems to love to spew the Sisters hate, I run into one or two that thing the models are glorious, that commiserate about non-updated Codices (one of my gaming buddies, who's also my boss.. plays Space Wolves. There's support if I ever saw some), that compliment conversions or how the retinue looks, or my Forgeworld decked out Land Raider that won a local vehicle painting contest on Tanksgiving last year. Yes we may have lots of people that hate us (I remember lots of Eldar hate too, with things like cameloline in a fortified building and it's not MY fault they let me deploy into something that gave Pathfinders a 2+ cover save), but there are just as many that respect Inquisition forces and what we have to deal with that give us total props and love playing against glorious painted and general'd armies.

 

People fear what they don't understand, and fear what kicks their butt. That's just a messed up way of them saying we do better than they do and they don't like it.

 

That doesn't make it okay, and it still means they're.. um... yeah. I won't go there. I would find a new group of people to game with personally, but that isn't always possible. Keep the faith, and maybe they'll grow up eventually or you'll find better people to game with.

[Lady_Canoness]

It would appeat then that the general conclusion is that the we, as Sisters players take a lot of flak for the army we play, though I must also admit that I have never met a player before who didn't think that a pure Battle Sister army wasn't something amazing to look at.

Surprisingly, the worst anti-Sister moaning I see isn't that we have faith, but actually the Exorcist tanks that are almost always seen in pairs (though I only ever take one). I don't know what people have the hate on for the Exorcist (considering that many people use Predators and the like...) yet I find that many marine players are sore about anything that can waste most of their squad in one turn.

[Tauren]

I will say this though... If you use something enough people get annoyed and tell you to stop saying it... When they do you turn right back around with "You first chief..."

[GTang]

Yeah, but then you're paying 25 points to be able to announce at the beginning of the shooting/assault phase that your squad has activated siad act of faith... for that phase only. And yes, you must announce at the beginning of the phase, before the enemy chooses targets and so on, and yes, it only lasts one phase.

I play footie so I still do it sometimes. The 20 lady squad screens a lot of the rest. If they don't get shot at the turn it's being used, it means that the Litanies worked even better than expected. I'm not saying it's a great tactic but it's not an impossible situation.

 

Rules like this is what keeps WH hard to understand. We, maybe even more than DH, have a lot of finicky rules. Faith, allies, Holy Rage, Celestian hatred, Seraphim Hit & Run, Immolators only if you've got Battle Sisters, the Book, Assassins, Inquisitors, pychic abilities, retinue management, two crazy special characters, etc. Practically every unit or piece of wargear is non-standard.

[Melissia]

yeah, but if they don't get shot at that means that the enemies are shooting at someone else instead, probably your more vulnerable squads. Not saying it isn't occasionally useful, just that it's nothing to scream about.

[benmothershaw]

Just ignore them (stay calm, don't show agrovation) , arguing back creates a bad gaming environment, and I should know that after a recent game. And partly to do with life skills.

Ignoring them will lead them to exsert there negativity at you which in that case you should:

Usually it would be best to talk to them about other than your army or just to have a quick chat after the game to try and give explanations it's also a good idea to mention, if anything unacceptable happens, that they should apologise (like "I don't think we will play a game if you don't apologise to me"), and even threaten them back by talking to the GW staff. ... If they don't apologise then, you probably won't want a game with them and maybe even GW will show them where stick it!

It turned out my friend had a bad day... and GK's and Daemons aren't likely to get along especially with 3 Soul grinders (13av AHHHH) and a list full of different rules for my army (why the **** do you get free shots again?)... theres always going to be some tension.

just my thoughts.