Negativity toward Sisters of Battle

[Melissia]

And as another side note, is cheese the reason why people haven't taken DE, SW or even Sisters to GTs to win them and such? That they will get super low on the comp scores or something?

For Sisters, the main reason is it's just not easy to play them. It takes a lot of precision, good timing, and a bit of luck-- armies like Space Marines, Eldar, Necorns or Tyranids are much easier to play and still remain competatively.

 

If people would give one a low score just for taking a Sisters army, then they need to take their heads out of their derrieres.

[Lady_Canoness]

Any army in the hands of someone who is particularily skilled and calculating in their play and build can be absolutely deadly - so Dark Eldar, Space Wolves, and all the rest cannot be tarred as cheesy. Also, Sisters as a force aren't inherrently cheesy either. Fight a pure World Eaters army, or someone with big Death Company, then tell me that Sisters are broken... simply put, you can't do it.

 

Faith, I reckon, exists to compensate glaring weaknesses inherent in a Sisters force. Terrible close combat ability (lets face it, our assault potential is laughable) and weak long range fire-power (exorcists and HBs don't make us strong) slides us into a difficult camp: we have to get close, but not too close (even with faith, a standard tactical squad can seriously harm any sister unit - well, Repentia may stand a chance - and an assault squad will murder anything it touches.) Mech Sisters are therefore vulnerable, and are very vulnerable to armies that play the trap. Sure, you will put out a lot of damage, but the counter attack will be bloody. Faith can't even stop this - it may delay it, yes, and it may damage the enemy in the process, but the result will be the same. So what does faith give us? It gives us a boost; a boost to compensate for average weapons, low strength and toughness, and generally make us different from weaker and worsely equipped Space Marines.

 

The best comparison I have heard, actually, is to think of Sisters like you would Deathguard: lethal short range, durable (because of spirit, book, power armour, and numbers), but less than capable in close combat, and often relying on transport.

 

A question to players: How often has faith DIRECTLY turned a defeat into victory? (in other words, how often has an act of faith, or a combination of acts, caused you to win the game where lack of faith would have made you lose?)

For me, the answer is not often. It helps, but on its own it never makes a world of difference.

[Melissia]

No, repentia don't really have a chance :verymad: No acts of faith, 4+ armor save, T3, 20 points each. Sure, if a full 20 count Repentia squad managed to somehow charge a tactical squad without taking any casualties first, they could do some serious damage, but come on, when do you think THAT is going to happen?

 

And even then... that's something around four hundred points of Sisters attacking 170 points of Marines. One would hope they could do some damage!

[Gentlemanloser]

To someone who cannot see a way to beat an army/unit things can often seem cheesy, however if you know how to beat them...

 

How do you beat Harlies in Falcons?

 

How do you beat massed Sternguard in Drop Pods? About the only thing I can think of is Mystics. So the SG Combat Squad.

 

There are some things in this game that, probably unintentionally, when used in concert make it nearly impossible for your opponent to deal with.

 

And again, I think that's why there's so much hate towards Faith. There's no counter. There's no stopping the Divine Guidance shredding that 2+ save unit. Or making a critical squad that's falling back Fearless to regroup under 1/2 str.

 

It's another reason I hate the new stupid psychic powers of the Daemon army. There is no way they should be classed as shooting attacks.

[Melissia]

You mean Pavane of Slaanesh... which you can have up to like five or six per deployment (HQs + daemon princes I believe)?

 

Fun thing, that. Move the shooty enemy within range of assaulting via fleet (because daemonettes and slaaneshi heralds have fleet)? Why yes, I think I will! I wish it was a psychic attack...

[Gentlemanloser]

All of them Mel.

 

Chaos Space Marine Daemon Princes get Breath of Chaos (if that's the name) as a Psychic Power. Chaos Daemon Daemon Princes get the same abilitiy as a shooting attack.

 

So no Aegis, Psychic Hood, Null Rod, Unguents, etc...

 

>_<

 

Then there's the shooting attacks that don't do anything shooty, like Lash, sorry, Pavane, and the funky turn you into a spawn instant death shooting attack.

 

I'm sure i've missed others.

[Lady_Canoness]

I think the best example of cheese I ever saw was given by the jeske: 3 Land Speeder tornadoes in a combat patrol mission... I mean, that is just cruel.

[GodwynDi]

I think the best example of cheese I ever saw was given by the jeske: 3 Land Speeder tornadoes in a combat patrol mission... I mean, that is just cruel.

 

The Sister's melta gun says *pop*; The Canoness inferno pistol agrees.

 

What makes people cry cheese about Faith, is that we control when it is used. It can be placed where needed to be used for best effect. An effective resource that takes skill to manage well. Cheap, no. A surprise slap to the face to someone unused to fighting sisters, sometimes.

I <3 my sisters, and after time, even some of the people that first cried cheese, after playing against them regularly, came to like them as well when I play. Of course, I play a horribly non-competitive non-standard list, but it is fun.

[Lion in the Stars]

Sisters (run by a decent player) are the army that has scared me the most since the Witch Hunters codex came out. It's not cheese, since failing that faith roll will be the end of the unit, but Sisters have a very different learning curve than most other armies. Every sisters player I know basically had the lightbulb turn on after a few games, and then they became *very* dangerous opponents.

 

I almost hope that Daemonhunters get a similar mechanic when the =I= codecii are reworked.

[Sister Rosette Soulknyt]

The amount of times at my local gaming store ive heard negative comments about my Sisters army will id be a walking purity seal for evey comment.

Having Faith atleast gives the Witch hunters army a boost in the face of other armies with so many bonuses, EG: combat squads, they shall know no fear ect.

 

Having a lack of heavy weapons other than the Heavy Bolter, Multi Melta and Flamer is hard too, fighting agaisnt Lascanons and Heavy Plasma is serious danger.

Combine that with a Sister is weaker in Toughness than a marine im sick of hearing them say cheasy or cheater.

Yet all i do is prove how superior there armies are with so many updates, new codexs and weapons, special characters and yet i can still mostly win agaisnt them......yet again gettting called a cheat army sore looses is all your opponents are for accusing you as such.

 

There are two types of opponents to a Sisters Army: the whingers who need to accuse you of something for there own lack of skill OR a descent fair player who understands the lack of updated rules and sympathises with you, unfortunetly to many whingers in this game.

[Mal]

I understand that point, if someone is happy to play your force but once they loose declare it cheesy and call you a cheater (been done to me) then surely the problem isn't the army, but your opponent. It can be really quite upsetting, espically if the person doing the acusing is someone you thought you were close to.

[ArmouredWing]

And as another side note, is cheese the reason why people haven't taken DE, SW or even Sisters to GTs to win them and such? That they will get super low on the comp scores or something?

For Sisters, the main reason is it's just not easy to play them. It takes a lot of precision, good timing, and a bit of luck-- armies like Space Marines, Eldar, Necorns or Tyranids are much easier to play and still remain competatively.

 

If people would give one a low score just for taking a Sisters army, then they need to take their heads out of their derrieres.

Although the 2nd round of the UK GT had half a dozen WH rosters in it, a number of which did seem to perform quite well.

[march10k]

Per points cost, Marines are more efficient than Ssiters. *shrug*

 

 

Let's see...

 

Taking off the cost of the bolt pistol, frag nades, krak nades, and free special/heavy weapon... it ends up around 11 pointsl. That is to sa, Marines pay about that much for an MEQ statline, bolter/PA, ATSKNF, combat tactics, combat squadding. While Sisters pay 11 points for the Sororitas statline, bolter/PA, acts of faith, and shield of faith.

 

 

Honestly, Marines get the better deal. Faith is the only thing that keeps the Sisters even remotely viable.

 

 

I think that's a bit of a stretch...listing up and then deducting points for "free" stuff that marines get, but don't always use (and they'll virtually never use all of it in one game), is a bit like saying that SoB get a free haircut that's worth 3 points, therefore sisters only cost 8 points a model. Out of all of that stuff, 70% or more of marine models will NEVER have a use for the krak grenades. ALL marines, not just those intending to assault, are forced to buy the pistol and frags. Virtually all tactical squads will take something other than the free flamer. Some tactical squads might take the free heavy...maybe. Comat squadding only makes you more vulnerable to annihilation. X-hundred points of battle sisters will regularly make a mockery of the same points value of tactical marines.

[the jeske]

I think the best example of cheese I ever saw was given by the jeske: 3 Land Speeder tornadoes in a combat patrol mission... I mean, that is just cruel.

i think it was 5 and 5 scouts as troops in th 4th . if I remember right :D.

 

 

X-hundred points of battle sisters will regularly make a mockery of the same points value of tactical marines.

thats why sm armies arent build around tacticals . but never the less the difference between sm and the sob , is that sob have 1 turn [because of the 12" range it works on , no cc units etc ] to of actuall play , sm with they higher T/STR longer reach , special characeters and actually usable elites and FA choices [or I should rather call them counter/meta choices , before someone bashes me for the serafins] can play 3 sometimes even 4 turns . Thats the difference ... and its huge .

[Mal]

If you can find someone who plays marines as a gunline not a shooty/cc force then sisters will walk all over them purely by numbers... but lets face it, thats a pretty foolish thing for the marine player to do.

 

That aside, I did some math on a 10 strong sisters squad against a 10 strong tac squad, and a 20 strong sisters squad against a 10 strong tac squad..... the 10 strong sisters scored a big fail, the 20 strong kept an even ratio of kills (about 2:1 over a few rounds of combat), but 20 sisters is by far more expensive than 10 tac marines.

 

N.b. faith not used, just basic weaponry/statline.