The Way of the Flame Warrior

[Melissia]

Compared to a Space Marine list, all of these are going to be harder to play, comparitively speaking, than certain other armies (such as the Space Marines or even Orks).

 

Personally, I'd say that list one or three would be the easiest to play simply because there are fewer special rules to deal with.

[Toogeloo]

You should add the importance of St Celestine's ability to deny objectives and kill points making her an extremely useful HQ. Her potential 24" move or just the fact that she can constantly come back via deep strike are quite a useful asset to an army.

 

I also am leary of the entry on Retributors. I hate to suggest to people to take a unit simply because they are fighting a specific army. An army list is best designed to tackle all comers instead of having that "side deck" feel to it. Retributors do have some use, mainly a non mech list or fluff list, but I dont think they have any place in a Flame Warrior list so you may just suggest to readers to avoid them all together for the purposes of this FAQ.

 

Finally, Immolators. I love them, but yet, I remain stanced that in a Flame Warrior tactica they are counter productive. All squads in a Flame Warrior list (in my opinion) should be of 10 or more to take advantage of Divine Guidace, regardless of whether you are going to need it or not (e.g Guard or Orks). It comes back around to the any comers idea that lists shouldn't be designed around your opponent, and an Immolatored squad or Immolator HS option doesn't help take down MEQ or anything with a 3+ save. Only in my opinion should Immolators be dismissed in this tactica.

 

 

 

A pure Flame Warrior Mentality should consist of:

 

St Celestine or Jumping Canoness HQ (I would do Celestine if you are playing high enough points)

A squad of 6 or 7 Seraphim or two (one is good, two is ok but expensive. 6 or 7 girls if you attach the Saint to them, 7 or 8 in all other cases)

A couple of Exorcists (2 is good, 3 is great, but only if you have points)

As many squads of Battle Sisters as your List can hold, preferably in Rhinos. This should be at least 60% of the army list points in my opinion.

 

 

Tactics are simple, rush the enemy if they are shooty, or move them around to you if they are assaulty.

 

Against shooty based units (eg Tau or Guard) Rush your ass off to get to the units that will cripple him most. Then dump out, template and Rapid Fire, Divine Guidace, and hopefully you can get in your Rhino and repeat on the subsequent turns.

 

Against Assault based units, never get out of a Rhino unless it is clearly advantageous to do so. Remember that you can move 6" and fire flame templates or shoot guns out the roof of the Rhino, and if you move 12", your opponent must roll 6's to even hit your tank. Let the opponent assault the tank, but don't give him the position to surround the tank. You just want him bunched up on one hull. On your next turn, you would be surprised how many hits your flame templates score.

 

In both cases, dont be afraid to use your Exorcists to target squads with HQs or special characters. Monsterous Creatures and Tanks are great targets too, but don't feel like you have to shoot those models. Sometimes taking out a synapse, or a squad of Assault Marines with a Chaplain can make your life a lot easier too.

 

Just my opinions, feel free to elaborate of criticize. :P

 

 

 

EDIT: As a side note, looking at both your lists Mel, I would highly suggest a third flame template for the Battle Sister squads. Combi-Flamer. That saves 5 points which if you really are worried about vehicles allows the Vet to take Meltabombs. You will find the 3rd Flame template far more useful and not likely to piss you off should roll a 1 or 2 to hit with a one time Meltagun.

[Melissia]

You can only fire one flame template out of a rhino at a time, so you should say "a flame template", not multiples. The Sororitas rhino has one fire point, and right now Sororitas can only fire one weapon out of said fire point.

[Toogeloo]

Well technically I was refering to multiple firings over multiple turns and multiple vehicles, but I have also heard many backers say that 2 models can fire out the top hatch simultaneously. That is neither here nor there however, the point was that you can fire out of the vehicle against assaulty armies to soften them up, whether it is a Boltgun, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, Storm Bolter, Combi-Plasma, Bolt Pistol, Plasma Pistol, yada yada yada... you get the idea.

[ArmouredWing]

THANKS :devil:

 

I have everything needed to play all lists...still painting my second exorcist, but almost ready to go. My oponents are Ultra Marines, wolves, tyranids, tau, Imperial Guard and orcs.

 

Which of the list you will recomend for someone who has never played 40k....but it's a quick learner?

Truth be told? None of the lists here are going to suit a rookie sisters player at all. The problem with each list is it relies very heavily on a player knowing how a unit is going to perform once they get into the thick of things and also how different units are going to perform when combined with others. The other problem is that they are pretty fragile and will get hammered pretty nastily by a seasoned opponent.

 

For someone who'd never played sisters or (even more so) 40K at all you're best off putting together a basic list and not worrying about your army playing 'water', 'fire' or any other element. Sisters take can take a long time to get a handle on but they are worth sticking with but key to success is finding out what works specifically for you. The whole 'fire' thing can distract you from the main task at hand which is looking at the stuff available, picking out what you'd like to try out and then fielding them in anger.

 

The best advice is use this as advice but also have a look at the army lists section of the site to get an idea what people are putting out there at the moment.

 

Just a quick observation as well on possible opponents. 5th ed really has changed the playing field considerably for many armies especially when it comes to traditionally 'shooty' armies. Tau are a prime example as they have some serious clout when it comes to CC (I'll wait for the laughter to subside)....

 

....Ok? everyone composed themselves? Now consider this. When it comes to Tau the basic fire warrior is not necessarily the best choice for filling all of those troops slots for capturing objectives. Kroot are now a BIG player in any respecting Tau general's roster. Cheap, available in very big units, not bad weaponary, +1 cover save in woodland (and we all know the Tau player will place objectives in said terrain) and quite frankly awesome in CC. These are the problem units for a sisters player. Everything else out there is fairly simple to deal with the exception of these because the 'fire' mentality of rushing towards the opponent to get your gun off will result in these guys mincing your units with a second thought (and in many cases a second turn of CC).

I guess what I am saying is that do not expect your opponent to field a specific army because it is traditionally one type of element.

 

The point of a water army is that it can adapt & overcome a multitude of opponents, the same cannot be said of 'fire', 'earth' or 'air'. They can adapt to a certain extent but they are limited to what they can do and as a result end up being predictable in their actions and strategy and if you are predictable then you are also easier to overcome.

[Melissia]

The Sororitas, as they are in their 3E Codex, cannot truelly become a water army. Also, if they do field kroot, then that's one example of a prime target for a heavy bolter retributor squad IMO, although I'd only put them in in 1500 ponit games.

I have also heard many backers say that 2 models can fire out the top hatch simultaneously.

Sure you have, but you just as others argued for RAW in this thread, then I shall point out that the RAW is that you can only use one weapon per firing point in the BRB, and the Sororitas rhino has one firing point. Neither the codex nor the FAQ say anything to contradict this.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I concur that the thread should probably be better served by consistantly using RAW. RAI or RAATB (rules as aught to be) is something that relies upon the good will of your opponent, whereas RAW are always allowed and arguable. People can adjust things based upon what RAI their local group has decided on (for example: My local gamers tend to treat all force weapons the same regardless of Codex, all assault cannons the same, etc.).

[jakehunter52]

You should add the importance of St Celestine's ability to deny objectives and kill points making her an extremely useful HQ. Her potential 24" move or just the fact that she can constantly come back via deep strike are quite a useful asset to an army.

 

Here here to that! Those are important factors when running Celestine, which makes her great for taking out those elite units (quick movement, easy use of faith, the most amazing blessed weapon ever) which can earn her points back and more. I feel like she deserves more notice than has been given.

 

Finally, Immolators. I love them, but yet, I remain stanced that in a Flame Warrior tactica they are counter productive. All squads in a Flame Warrior list (in my opinion) should be of 10 or more to take advantage of Divine Guidace, regardless of whether you are going to need it or not (e.g Guard or Orks). It comes back around to the any comers idea that lists shouldn't be designed around your opponent, and an Immolatored squad or Immolator HS option doesn't help take down MEQ or anything with a 3+ save. Only in my opinion should Immolators be dismissed in this tactica.

 

No way. One of the things about Flame Warrior is to overwhelm and when you have a very unique vehicle that moves like a fast vehicle and putting out a lot of armour saves (if you are even getting one), that is invaluable. Not everything should be tailored after MEQ, especially after seeing orks get so many finalist positions in the GTs. And while Divine Guidance is pretty much bread and butter for us, it doesn't need to be a requirement for every squad. If anything, it gives your main SoB squads more faith to burn, making them all the more effective. Plus I would hate to see such a cool model be disregarded when even Repentia are being featured and they have a lot less reason to be here then the Immolator does. Regardless, it doesn't ever hurt to discuss why a unit wouldn't be the most advantageous to take when trying to run a Fire Warrior list.

 

A pure Flame Warrior Mentality should consist of:

 

St Celestine or Jumping Canoness HQ (I would do Celestine if you are playing high enough points)

A squad of 6 or 7 Seraphim or two (one is good, two is ok but expensive. 6 or 7 girls if you attach the Saint to them, 7 or 8 in all other cases)

A couple of Exorcists (2 is good, 3 is great, but only if you have points)

As many squads of Battle Sisters as your List can hold, preferably in Rhinos. This should be at least 60% of the army list points in my opinion.

 

More boo! The wonderful thing I have noticed with Flame Warrior as opposed to Water Warrior is that we are not limited to a specific build (having to take 3 LRs and then working within that). For example, I take my Serephim in groups of 5, 2 hand flamers and a Vet with Evisorator. I use them to a) lend support to a another SoB squad, b ) tie a unit in combat for a couple of rounds (three dice and low squad size makes it real easy to get that invo save) or c) killing tanks with their krak grenades and the Vets Evisorator. There definitely is merit to your suggestion but because I only have 2 metaguns total in my army, I have to rely on them and my serephim to continually provide anti-tank when I need it, thus keeping minimalist squads so I can fit them in. You do provide a good outline for what I feel is a particular style of Fire Warrior but I don't think that we necessarily have to limited to a jump cannoness (I feel like Cannoness w/ Celestian ret in an Immolator is a viable option) or maxing out Exorcists.

 

Tactics are simple, rush the enemy if they are shooty, or move them around to you if they are assaulty.

 

Against shooty based units (eg Tau or Guard) Rush your ass off to get to the units that will cripple him most. Then dump out, template and Rapid Fire, Divine Guidace, and hopefully you can get in your Rhino and repeat on the subsequent turns.

 

:lol: I really don't think tactics with Sisters are simple at all. I played a Guard friend the other weekend and got my butt handed to me cause I tried to rush him and get in CC while trying to flame everything else....totally failed. That's the point of those armies is that they can pump out soooooooooo many shots, it overwhelms you and what's even worse is that even when you destroy a unit, there are 6 more waiting for you and you can't do anything cause you can't consolidate into them anymore. Tactics has got to be more than just rush forward and hope, it has to be something of guarantee. For example, I talked to him after the battle and asked what I could of done different and he suggested that I "sacrifice" a unit to protect my other ones. I could place a rhino sideways and put two more behind it, keeping them concealed and giving me the 4+ cover. Also, because his guard squads are paper thin, rather than trying to focus on destroying them one at a time like I do w/ MEQ, would be to try and isolate sections of his armies and protect my units w/ my rhinos, so I wouldn't get blinded to death. Fire is not a threat without air, fuel and heat. It is up to us to provide that and let it burn.

 

To Melissa: I have been enjoying what you have put down so far but also have sorta of a request. I was thinking about this the other day and well, it seems like Flame Warrior seems to prefer mechanized but that unfortunately seems to produce an abundance of kill points. I was hoping you could lend your thoughts on how this affects us, how to deal with it or avoid it if possible. Just a thought. Oh, and you've done good. :huh:

 

edit: fixed smiley faces

[GoneFishing]

ArmouredWing is right in recommending that a player new to Sisters of Battle should attempt to build there own basic list first. When you first play an army you make mistakes, you make bad choices - you lose battles (if you are playing an experienced player you often don't just lose - you get your ass handed to you!). The thing is those battles are part of your education - they teach you your list, its strengths and weaknesses - and also, most importantly, the style of play that suits YOU best.

 

I play Tau, my first battle was against a experienced friends Marine army, I was routed, humiliated and destroyed - but the experience taught me alot about how to play my own army, how to position my forces and my own strengths and weaknesses as a commander. The next time I played that Marine Commander I massacred him and since then the honours have been pretty much even between us.

 

As a Tau player you may be wondering why I am commenting on a Sister's of Battle thread, well first off - its a list I have played against a lot and as a result know very very well - its also a list I have a great deal or respect for, and if a friend did not already play them I have to admit I would be collecting a sisters army as my own second army. You are right in the fact that Sisters of Battle are amazingly good at short to medium range fire, you are right that they lack long range weaponry and sometimes have to close with an enemy to take them out - especially if that enemy is packing long range fire power (which it is impossible for the Sisters to match). But ArmouredWing is equally right when he says that in order to pull this way of playing off you need to have a good understanding of your army, if you send SOB running up the table toward an enemy in waves they are going to get picked off and they will die. They have a 3 plus save but that does not make them invulnerable to massed fire, and if they are charging up the field in transports or on foot they will be unable to fire back until they get close. For a new player to successfully work out the effective units in this tactic, to work out when to correctly use his faith, which units need support etc.....well its just going to be messy.

 

Seraphim's for example - they are awesome - very good troops. If you charge them ahead of your sisters squads they will draw fire and die - no one want them hitting the lines or getting close to tanks (and lets face it, to stand a good chance of taking out a tank they need to be 3 inches away from it or in CC). Your opponent will not let them get that close. Sure, you could Deep strike them - so then you have a unit if Seraphim trying to Deep strike into the heart of your opponents army, If they get lucky and don't Deep strike Mishap/scatter away from there target you "MAY" get within 3 inches of a tank, and then you "MAY" destroy it - that still leaves a unit of Seraphim's surrounded by a lot of angry troops who are going to blow them to hell.

 

I am not saying your tactics here cant be effective, I know that they can - but its not a play style that will suit everyone, its extremely hard to pull off effectively and as Armouredwing says - there is no plan B. If you come up against the wrong sort of army, or an opponent that knows what he is doing against a sisters list you could be in deep trouble! I also think you are fairly incorrect if you expect a Tau Army to deploy in a gunline and wait or you to get there - Tau's strength is mobility and it tends to be the more inexperienced Tau Commanders that rely on a static approach. What does your Flame Warrior army do for example when its got half way across the table and things start outflanking and deep striking behind it? When your Transports are destroyed? (its not exactly hard to kill a rhino). When your few bits of long range heavy support are destroyed how are your footsloggers even going to get near a tank? Enemy Troops in transports will run rings around you.

 

Like I say - I am not insulting the tactics, they do work - and in the hands of an experienced player could be lethal - but you HAVE to know what your doing. And the lists you have presented are good - but they lack versatility, you can not build an army to be a one trick pony - you have to be prepared to change your tactics depending on the situation and your opponent. - Try fighting a Ninja Tau army with those lists, you would never get close enough to it use your plan. And never forget that 2 out of 3 games are now based on holding objectives - if you are going to hold them you will end up splitting your forces - and that could be very dangerous with this type of list.

 

It's interesting good work - but my money is on water.

[Melissia]

jakehunter52: There's not much one can do about the large number of kill points. One could go for footslogging squads and run your way there, but that will inevitably be slower than using a vehicle (due to not always getting a 6), and you risk giving the enemy a tactical advantage or worse, havong your squads separate because one of them doesn't go as far as all the others or one goes further.

 

Against the most common opponents-- horde squads and MEQ squads-- Sororitas squads work best when you can focus fire on one enemy. Large horde squads require a lot of wounds to cripple (although you may not necessarilly need to use acts of faith, you do want to do a lot of damage), and MEQ squads have good armor saves and thus are also difficult to remove. Reducing your ability to do this is not necessarilly fatal, but it can prevent you from taking advantage of a tactical situation via proper use of Acts of Faith.

 

Of course, the benefit of going footslogging beyond kill points is the ability to increase squad size or to free up points to spend somewhere else (our Rhinos cost 50 points, and we usually give them smoke ontop of that to make them 53 points), which can't be denied, but one has to think-- is the loss of mobility and protection worth it? Note also that the rhinos themselves offer a storm bolter and the ability to tank shock and provide cover for your squads, and to go footslogging would stop you from using those abilities. It also means that our exorcists are our enemy's only targets for long ranged anti-tank weaponry as well-- there's no rhinos or immolators to shoot at. And finally, it makes the Sisters more vulnerable to deep striking or dtop podding close combat specialists, because they cannot simply drive away and reposition themselves.

[ArmouredWing]

I disagree with your dismissal of the ability of footsloggers in a sisters army.

...but one has to think-- is the loss of mobility and protection worth it? Note also that the rhinos themselves offer a storm bolter and the ability to tank shock and provide cover for your squads, and to go footslogging would stop you from using those abilities. It also means that our exorcists are our enemy's only targets for long ranged anti-tank weaponry as well-- there's no rhinos or immolators to shoot at. And finally, it makes the Sisters more vulnerable to deep striking or dtop podding close combat specialists, because they cannot simply drive away and reposition themselves.

Have you really considered what DS or drop pod troops can do to a rhino? Driving away is not an option when your battlebus is nothing more than a smouldering wreck with the potential for casulaties thrown into the mix. The problem I currently have with rhinos is that they can be popped by an aweful lot of stuff out there on the field. Even a bog standard marine can walk up and stand a chance of knocking it out with his ceramite encased fists (not even PF) and other tank killing specialists are also in the same boat if the drop in behind it. Like I said, if you want to drive away you've got to have a fully functioning vehicle in YOUR next turn, which means surviving your opponents turn where the DS, drop pod troops have the opportunity to do the damage.

 

With this in mind I would also ask the question "just how much protection does a rhino afford a squad?". Against your average joe bloggs probably a reasonable amount but to a more seasoned player? The consideration would be something along the lines of;

1 - Has it got passengers which can claim objectives?

2 - It is an easy kill point?

3 - Does it pose a threat?

If any of these are ticked then I'd have to say that the rhino stands a pretty good chance of being targetted and popped ASAP because, as I said previously, anything else on the table is there as support and will not be able to claim objectives or is a damned site harder to kill (in the case of exorcists). Remove the ability to score and you're already half way to winning the game and at the end of the day the taste of victory is what keeps us playing.

[number6]

OK, Cooling Off Period has expired, and this topic is once again open for business. I have removed a number of posts and edited several others to bring it back into compliance with B&C rules.

 

However, any future transgressions will result in this topic being ejected out the airlock with prejudice. Remember to keep any criticisms absolutely 100% clear of any personal references. Remember that you should take time and care with your posts; resist the urge to whip off a quick line or two. This is not texting. This is not a conversation. It is a discussion forum. There is no excuse for not taking the time to flesh something out completely, to actually expend a modicum of effort, to actually write and compose your thoughts before replying. It's all laid out in the B&C forum rules.

 

[replaces Mod Hat with Interested Member Hat]

 

It's interesting to me that some posts have implied -- if not outright stated -- that the Fire style of play advocated in this tactica is a limited, one-trick pony that can be easily countered by most any quality general. I don't think that's necessarily true. Silent Requiem's "Way of the water warrior" was referred to in this context, but he never made any such assertion. All he stated was that the typical Fire army playstyle was "limited" and "boring" to him, but that it was undeniably effective and required skill to pull off effectively. SR also never made any claims that the Water style he discussed was "superior" in any way, just that it appealed to him and felt satisfying when executed effectively.

 

As I posited in that topic, the key difference between Water and the other elemental styles is that Water does not have a defined victory condition (at least, not until it is matched up against another element), while each of the other three elements have very clearly defined victory conditions. Which is what makes Water v Water matchups so interesting. Each general is attempting to define a victory condition that s/he can impose upon the game and thus swing it their way.

 

The way I see it, the Water tactical playstyle is primarily a game of resource management. However, the Fire playstyle (along with Earth and Air) is primarily a game of risk management. A Water warrior must manage his/her resources better than their opponent to win. Water's resources are always somewhat limited, and must always be put to maximum use to achieve battlefield success. Fire (again, along with Earth and Air) doesn't (necessarily) have to maximize its resource allocation/use from game turn to game turn. Instead, it must judge how much risk it is willing to undertake at any given time. And for Fire the ultimate goal is to pick the optimal moment to risk everything and smite your opponent with an overwhelming burst of power.

 

Managing risk is no less difficult a skill to master than managing resources; neither approach can be said to be superior than the other. They just require different modes of thinking.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I must agree with Number 6... playing with my own Sisters of Battle and Ordo Hereticus Witch Hunter forces, actually reminds me a lot of my Bretonnian army in Warhammer Fantasy (a Fire style army if ever there was one!).

 

The key thing I have noticed is that every battle comes down to two or three defining key "moments of opportunity." It takes a lot of time to learn to spot these key moments, and use all your resources to tip that pivotal moment into your favor (Faith Points, which squads to charge with, applying firepower at the appropriate targets, etc.). I'm sure most of us have had moments in a battle where we go "Alright, if that unit dies This Turn I can do this, then that.. then I've won." The trick with these types of armies.. the army which is so obvious what it is going to do (I have an entire army of mounted knights, I'm obviously going to charge you... or I have an army of Sisters.. I'm going to close to rapid fire range and flame/melta/bolter you to death) is it isn't being deceptive about your goal.. they know what's going to be coming! The trick is to chose the appropriate moments of time.. those key moments of Where and When the inevitable strike is coming. Apply your sledgehammer with the skill and finesse of a surgeon, and break the opponent such that he cannot recover.

 

That takes a lot of skill and practice, but it is a fundamentally different skill than Water (thus Silent's comments and references). Just because you are good at one does not make you good at the other, and one is not any easier nor harder than the other! They are simply different approaches.

[Melissia]

Indeed, Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen has got it down to a tee. In fact, because of the Sisters' unique Acts of Faith, they actually have an advantage in flexibility over fire type units, thus why I differentiated between fire and flame. Acts of Faith operate off of an army-wide pool of points which can be used on any of a list of Acts of Faith that can be applied to any faithful squad who can pass that particular act's test, granting the Sisters flexibility in 1: which Acts of Faith are used (there are two higher number typ acts, three lower number type acts), and 2: which units use them.

[Melissia]

How to deal with the elemental armies

 

Okay, I've had some time to thinka bout this (I haven't forgotten about this tactica!), and here is what I've come up with:

 

 

 

Flame Versus Air:

 

The biggest danger when facing against an Air army is an opponent who can keep out of your short ranged weaponry. You will rely upon your Rhinos to get up close and personal, to force their hand. Even if this means getting the enemy to committ to an assault on one of your squads, this is not necessarilly a bad thing-- because if your squad is forced to retreat, then your OTHER squads will focus on them.

 

The biggest opportunity (ies) when facing against an Air army? One, the Exorcist. Though random, it has the potential to decimate small, but durable squads with S8 AP1 rockets. Its effective range of 54" is the best range that you have access to, allowing you to chip at the enemy even as they try and avoid committing to attacking. Ontop of that, your large number of bodies with a 3+ save will help you take objectives, or weather the storm until you can trap the enemy behind massed, mobile firepower.

 

Generally, against an air Army it will be a battle of mobility. A flame army also relies upon mobility as well, and indeed it something of a combination of Air and Flame, with a bit of water thrown in (the dilemma of when and how to use the Acts of Faith). As usual, against assaulty armies, you'll generally want to saty just outside of their assault range, and chip at them until they move willingly within the rapid fire range. Against shooty armies, you may benefit from playing a more earthy style-- your large number of 3+ saves combined with a good cover save and the book of st. lucius can ensure that you can hold on to objectives.much easier than your opponent. If you want to try that, rush your infantry up to the front, and then drop them off on objectives and use your rhinos to shield them from LoS as much as possible (even if it means turning the rhino so it is sideways-- its side armor is equivalent to its front armor after all).

 

 

Flame Versus Earth:

 

The biggest danger when facing against an Earth army is their typical long ranged attacks. Their durability can be bypassed in one way or the other, but their firepower should not be doubted. They will do whatever is in their power to reduce your mobility, and if they manage that, then you will have to run your way up to rapid fire range. It may be to your advantage to assault this army if they are tau or Imperial Guard-- with good leadership and good armor, you'll probably win the assaults against these kinds of Earth armies. Spreading out can be helpful to avoid blast templates, but don't do it too much-- you want to be able to focusfire on the most deadly targets.

 

The biggest opportunity when facing against an Earth army is that they tend to be slower and more static, and so you can get onto objectives first, and take advantage of cover saves as you move.

 

Generally, against an Earth army it will be a battle of durability and firepower. They will always have more firepower than you at long range, but if you can manage to use cover saves or smoke launchers properly then you can bring your firepower to bear on them at short range. Against tough armies with a good armor save, Divine Guidance is a godsend-- against highly numerous armies with poor armor saves, Hand of the Emperor can ge equally good. you will have to choose which type of offense based on the enemy's durability. For example, even against a shooty Marine army it is generally best not to assault them-- although assaulting a Devastator squad with plasma cannons is a risk you'll probably want to take, if only to tie them up.

 

 

Flame Versus Fire:

 

The biggest danger when facing against a Fire army is improper positioning preventing you from doing the most damage you can before the inevitable assault. You must position yourself properly to take advantage of the fact that your enemy wants to get into close combat with you. Keep in mind all special abilities, such as fleet, jump packs, or The WAAAGH!, and you can mentally calculate how far away you need to be. Give yourself several extra inches more than that just to be careful, but not so much so that you can't move up into rapid fire range afterwards, and preferably also ideal flamer range.

 

The biggest opportunity when facing against a Fire army is the opponent's lack of shooting ability-- you will generally exceed the fire army's shooting ability, and so you will dominate that phase. Using this to your advantage, you can drasticly weaken the inevatiable assault.

 

Generally Fire armies will hone your positioning abilities. If you can get to the ideal position and force the enemy to get into your rapid fire and flamer range, you'll fare better than not. Aside from that, the same rules about using Acts of Faith apply here-- against numerous armies with lower armor saves, Divine Guidance will not help as much as some other Act of Faith, whereas against high armor models, Divine Guidance is preferable to everything else.

 

 

 

Flame Versus Flame:

 

The biggest danger when facing against another Flame army is getting outmaneuvered. If your enemy can get his/her units in the ideal position to put their firepower to use earlier than you, then you will be fighting at a great disadvantage.

 

The biggest opportunity when facing against another Flame army is the fact that his/her general range is probably about the same as yours! This means he's also trying to maneuver into rapid fire and flamer range, allowing you to either react to the enemy or force them to react to you if you so want. Take some hints from the Water Warrior tactics, as often the best way to fight another Flame army is with Water Warrior tactics.

 

Generally, against other Flame armies, it comes down to who can maneuver their forces to properly focus their attacks, claim objectives, and reduce the enemy's ability to do the same. Both players will be trying to do the same thing.

 

 

Flame Versus Water:

 

The biggest danger when facing a Water army is that they are generally good at everything-- they can assault well, they can shoot well, and they're often somewhat durable too. This makes it hard to force their hand, and they will often be the one trying to force yours.

 

The biggest opportunity when facing a Water army is that while they have a lot of tactics available, you have one overriding goal to work towards, allowing you to focus more easilly on that goal-- get into rapid fire and flamer range, and let 'em rip. Another strategy would be to try are using the massed 3+ saves along with cover saves to goad the Water army into trying to assault-- and thus letting you get into proper range, or making them wait too long before they can actually do anything to stop you from winning via objectives.

 

Generally, the Flame army wants to force the Water army to commit either too early, or too late. To get them to commit too early is to maneuver so that you can get them in rapid fire range before they assault. To get them to commit too late is to maintain your presence on objectives while they cannot move in without being decimated. Either way, your work is cut out for you against a very good water warrior.

 

 

 

 

 

If one has constructive suggestions (I definitely reserve the right to disagree and state why I disagree, as always) for this sectionn, please say so.

[chaplain belisarius]

wow! interesting...if GW do a plastic sisters squad...id get a 1k sisters force...

 

a very interesting tactica...especially now that 5th edition makes flamers worth taking now!;)

[boreas]

Very nice summary, Melissia! I'll try and apply that more "cerebrally" that "instinctively" in my next games...

 

Phil

[Melissia]

Fixed a couple typos in my post. For example, the last sentence of the earth armor Generally section (for whatever reason, I put rear armor instead of front, t'was an accident)

[Inq. Enmerich Von Vattle]

Thanks This is really helpfull