Mr. Bleak Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Hey everybody, I have a question. As stated above, is the Black Legion the only Legion or Chaos Warband that takes god-specific units like Thousand Sons or Plague Marines? I ask for 2 reasons: 1. Mixing god-specific units is alot more effective than being a Chaos Marine puritan...(arguably) 2. I wanted to make up a renegade warband (I already made a test marine), but I didn't know if fluff would allow it (I am a bit of a fluff monger) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argon Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 The God-specific leigons, like the World Eaters, Death Guard, Thousand Sons, and Emperor's Children are simply entire leigons of god-specific units. So the answer would be no. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1779597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Seeing as this codex isn't Codex:Black Legion, you can definitely field God-Specific units. I mean, the Thousand Sons unit is squads from the Thousand Sons Legion! Death Guard invented the Plague Marines! The list goes on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1779756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 While all thousand sons are clearly thousand sons and noise marines are emperor's children, not all berzerkers are world eaters (as has been mentioned in previous codexes), and not all plague marines are deathguard. As many others have suggested on these forums, using the units written in the codex to count as other units of your creation is perfectly acceptable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1779923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarulek Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 As stated in previous codices. All World Eaters are Berserkers, but not all Berserkers are World Eaters. All Death Guard are Plague Marines but not all Plague Marines are Death Guard. Not all Emperor's Children are Noise Marines tho, and tho I haven't read a direct reference claiming only Thousand Sons are Thousand Sons the fluff supports that very clearly. Doubt some bloke thought it was a very keen idea of Ahriman and decided to try it himself :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz1858 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I would say thousand sons are all thousand sons. Deathguard can be any marine nurge infects so good for modelling pestulant Ultramarines etc, Khorne berzerkers can be any as any marine can submit to bloodlust and be turned through many various ways. As for Noise marines again that could be anyone tainted by it. So unless theres fluff stating that ahriman is still converting new marines to dust Jarulek is correct Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archnomad Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Actually on Thousand Sons... while they aren't Thousand Sons, these are indeed Rubrics. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thunder_Barons Means you don't have to field thousand sons =) Enjoy =) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarulek Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Actually on Thousand Sons... while they aren't Thousand Sons, these are indeed Rubrics. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thunder_Barons Means you don't have to field thousand sons =) Enjoy =) Haha, I guess there WAS such a guy :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780378 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Thousand Sons are easier to justify because the current fluff (and atleast some of the older stuff) makes them out to be guns for hire basically. Convince the Aspiring Sorcerer to join you (with relics, naughty books, secrets etc etc) and he'll work for you as long as its in his interest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Basically any non dedicated legion (AKA not World Eaters, Emperors Children, Thousand Sons and Death Guard), or War band should feel free to pretty much take what they want (Some units would be more common or rare based on background but that's up to you. All cult units can originate from other legions/war bands not just the dedicated legions, however fluff wise Thousand Sons are Thousand sons (from the Thousand Sons units), however sorcerers will often work for others in search of knowledge and power. Especially Those who got out-cast from the Thousand sons such as Ahriman and his cabal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Actually on Thousand Sons... while they aren't Thousand Sons, these are indeed Rubrics. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thunder_Barons Means you don't have to field thousand sons =) Enjoy =) thats pure fan stuff . the only thing know about the Thunder Barons is that they went rogue ended up in the mealstrom . starting getting crazy one after another and the WB destroyed them . there is some stuff had planed for them , but in the end it didnt make it in to the official stuff . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 If your doing renegades you can take whatever you want (except slanny and khorne in the same army is not fluffy and I don't care how you spin it). Dual lash, PM's, oblits army is so powergamer cookiecutter you will never convience anyone you took it for fluff reasons, so I would avoid that but other then that it's up to you. Are you doing Children of Purgatos army ? (that's what your icon is) I like that paint scheme. Just a bit of advice, just b/c all the cult troops are good in their own right, doesn't mean that just mixing them all together makes a good army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuGGzy Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Seeing as this codex isn't Codex:Black Legion I disagree, it IS in fact Codex Black Legion, with maybe a smattering of Word Bearers. They removed all the fluff that would make a army characterful. How can it be a Night Lords army without Raptors AS Troops? I guess in an EC army none of the noise marines EVER decided to wear terminator armor, or became chosen? They just never made it past rank and file troops. Same for WE, DG etc. I just think it's silly to encourage people to make imposible (by fluff standards) armies. Back in the day it was POSIBLE to make cheezy overpowered lists if you TRIED, now you have to make a concious effort to NOT do it. It goes without saying that I am not a fan of this codex. Unfortunately I cam back to 40K a couple months after it was released and had already bought an army I wanted, with the 4th ed codex in my mind at the time. Now I am far less excited about my choice to make an EC army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Seeing as this codex isn't Codex:Black Legion I disagree, it IS in fact Codex Black Legion, with maybe a smattering of Word Bearers. They removed all the fluff that would make a army characterful. How can it be a Night Lords army without Raptors AS Troops? I guess in an EC army none of the noise marines EVER decided to wear terminator armor, or became chosen? They just never made it past rank and file troops. Same for WE, DG etc. I just think it's silly to encourage people to make imposible (by fluff standards) armies. Back in the day it was POSIBLE to make cheezy overpowered lists if you TRIED, now you have to make a concious effort to NOT do it. It goes without saying that I am not a fan of this codex. Unfortunately I cam back to 40K a couple months after it was released and had already bought an army I wanted, with the 4th ed codex in my mind at the time. Now I am far less excited about my choice to make an EC army. Use Rhino with Marines inside ? Just splash raptors and bikers ? It's possible to create fluffy NL list that win reliably. It require also skill to use it. [for one i have to state that i'm against one-dimensional legion crapfluff] No, they have terminators and bikers/chosen/posssessed. Just they do not use sonic weaponary. Do you want EC to be noise marines ? I'm strongly against such change - it kills the fluff - as Refuse. This is the part which remain the same - experienced players still have to try hard to create notcheese list. yeah, marks of chaos are crap in the dex :P not only 1-dimensional, but also if icon-bearer die they are not slaaneshi worshipers anymore :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1780813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Askari Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Marines with icons aren't full fledged servants and haven't earned the mark yet so they have to do more (like carry around an icon devoted to their patron) to attract their god's attention.if they stop waving it around the fickle chaos gods will forget about the puny mortals. I'm fine with the icon system it's just that some of them are over priced and nurgle and tzeencths need to cost the same as khornes. But I agreee with you that all of the old legions except for purist Nightlords and alpha legion cultist armies can be made in a competitive way with the current codex. Plus to the guy that complained about no raptors as troops and no sonic weapons on everything: Raptors were never troops, noise marines are simply a Cult unit like raptors or obliterators just because they're slaanesh doesn't mean they use sonic weaponry. They're a group of marines that fight in the same way and use the same equipment plus they're slaaneshi so eventually they'd get bored of sonic weapons and move on to something else one thing i hated about the old codex was all extraneous pages and rules that made entire armies into cult troops i found it stupi to give every god their own section of the codex with wargear, units and the like. mi miss the gifts and extra ability to customize your lord but i like a lot of the chagnes to make things simple and make more sense: liek giving daemon princes an actual unit option instead of a over gifted lord and making it possible to play khorne berzerkers instead of having them play themselves and do unspeakably retarded things in the name of Khorne. Doomblaster spam was thankfully taken out and all the other cult troops were made better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I disagree, it IS in fact Codex Black Legion, with maybe a smattering of Word Bearers. the studio guys themselfs said its more a codex Renegade sm . And JJ said they do know that the new dex "isnt a good representation of chaos legions ". No, they have terminators and bikers/chosen/posssessed. Just they do not use sonic weaponary. what is not true to fluff , that says they make exentsive us of it . [for one i have to state that i'm against one-dimensional legion crapfluff] well but the fluff is just like that . WE are mad man [not only because of the khorn thing , but because of the implants] . WB are all undivided , they hunt down all members of the legion who even seem to fall out of line . EC are different each and everyone on of them is different ..in looks .. but the fluff is still that they make exensive use sonic weapons . does it mean you have to take them ? nope , but there should be options for them . Un rubricted 1ksons , yeah right ??? I could go on like this about all legions . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 That's why i stated that i'm against such one-dimensional fluff. To avoid flame :> I know, that current version support Your PoV the jeske. [well, WB are not so pure. They could be represented as marked by particular god on the battlefield - yeah, they worship they like panthenon, but surely they gat most attention from god they pleased last time. willingly.] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I know, that current version support Your PoV the jeske. what do you mean by current version . WB stuff is 3ed for example . 2ed didnt have much fluff inside , aside for the mad WE , EC only with sonic etc . IW,AL existed more or less only as a way of paiting , before the IA . Unless you count the slaves of darkness stuff where we had a mixed khorn /NL shoulderpads and IW/AL with cult stuff on the same page [but no fluff]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 i count StD and LatD :> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillin Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I disagree, it IS in fact Codex Black Legion, As a BL player and fuff nutter, I definately have to disagree with that. This dex does a VERY poor job of portraying BL. BL does not = "I can take 2 lash princes, PM and oblits and call it fluffy b/c it's BL" And this business of the BL being made up of rejects, malcontents, and outcasts, from cult legions, ;) is new to this dex and contradicts the fluff from StD in 2nd ed. up through the IA and to 3.5 C:csm's, could he (the writer of this dex) not be bothered to read any of it ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lay Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Well, according to the Codex almost every warband is a mishmash of various Renegades and Legionnaires. Being the vanilla army of Chaos the BL had to epitomize that in the new dex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781666 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 nope there is no fluff like that . The desing team says that its possible to play with an army that has that build . thats like a world of difference between what the DT thought is going to be cool and what is fluffy . Techniclly the small amount of fluff they gave doesnt change much about the view on chaos . legions are still legions , there is no fluff about renegads [safe for that short story by thorpe ... :lol: ] and if there is no new stuff then it means the old stuff [iA articles /old codex fluff etc] is still true . Of course with a codex like that [and because how codex demons was build] they put the "chaos one happy family action" inside . mainlly because demons were unplayable as a mono force and the "BL" chaos is far superior to any list out of the new codex . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bleak Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Are you doing Children of Purgatos army ? (that's what your icon is) I like that paint scheme. No, I am not, but the scheme is alot like that. Dark Green armour, with gold kneepads and trim, and silver shoulder gaurds. The will be called The Neglected, and they will be marines tossed out of their previous orders (but I'm not gonna have any loyalist mentions at all). I hped this would help show that they can have all sorts. Here is a rough of what I'm thinking of for an army, no idea on points. Chaos Lord with Mark of Khorne (for the Bloodfeeder and rules, he won't be painted like it) some possessed two squads of vanilla renegades with special weapons, probably plasmas, one in a Rhino a unit of thousand sons a unit of berzerkers painted in Neglected colors, in a Rhino a unit of either plague marines or noise marines, painted in Neglected colors a unit of raptors a vindicator maybe a Defiler as the center-piece later on as the Chaos Lord's warband grows this would be alot of points, so I wouldn't add the specialized units (the plague marines or noise marines), or the Defiler until later. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1781996 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 How can it be a Night Lords army without Raptors AS Troops? Uhh... By the Night Lords being a Legion beyond just having Raptors? We use terror tactics. Last I checked, it's possible to use terror tactics beyond having guys with semi-jetpacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1782246 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 ok .. can it be that there is any NL without possible raptors as troops and representation for terror tactics in rules ? Raptors are very very NL. they were the first to use them , they had the most . Just like AL was the first to not use single terminators squads , but field whole groups of terminators . Giving NL raptors as troops or making them scoring [probablly the better idea . someone still had to take troops to have a legal list , but wouldnt be penalised for taking big raptor units]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152751-is-the-black-legion-the-only-one/#findComment-1782256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.