Espada Azul Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 As I'm currently converting a Master of the Forge to round off the HQ models I have for my Chapter, I need some clarification on one aspect of the MotF's equipment list. In its description, the Master of the Forge has both the Servo Arm (as per Techmarine entry) and Servo Harness. However, doesn't the Servo Harness normally replace the default Servo Arm? The unit entry at the back of the Codex seems to point to this being the case, as there is NO entry for a Servo Arm anywhere, but there IS a Servo Harness listed. So, if I get, say, the Conversion Beamer, then I lose the Servo Arm? This is important for a modeling perspective as well as a rules perspective, as the model I'm using is one of the old metal techmarines with metal backpacks that have servo-arms built-in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 You get the equipment that is listed in the armylist section, not that listed in the unit description earlier in the book (unless they are the same, of course). there are numerous examples throughout the book where the unit description lists items that are either optional or not available to all units on a given page (all 3 dreads on one page, with ironclad only items listed as wargear, to give just one example). It would therefore be incorrect to assume that the model actually has all equipment listed in their description This does admittedly create an oddity in that the MoTF has an item in his description that he (to my knowledge) never actually has. This does not really change anything, however. So no, the MoTF does not have a servo arm, just the harness, which can be traded for the beamer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1781384 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espada Azul Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Thanks, that clears some things up. However, a few more questions, in conjunction to the earlier Conversion Beamer query. I says that, although you start out with a bolter and the Servo Harness, you replace these for the Conversion Beamer. Directly below it though, it gives some options for replacing the bolter with pistols and combi-weapons. Am I right in thinking that, once you have the Beamer, you CAN'T take any other light ranged weaponry? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1781401 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Yep, that sounds about right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1781415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espada Azul Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 Well, drat. :devil: It looks like I'm going to look for a replacement arm then, since the arm I attached has a plasma pistol... Though I suppose I could get away with it if I tell my opponent nicely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1781418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniclurker Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I don't know about that. Where does it say you only get what's in the army list entry? I'd say that the lack of a servo arm in the list entry is just an oversight. Why would they list servo-arm in the unit entry if it's not even an option? An FAQ is almost guaranteed on this... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1782325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosLord Leon Enaek Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 The Codex states under the TECHMARINE entry (pg. 71) under Servo Harness; A servo-harness gives the Techmarine an EXTRA Servo-Arm (giving him two Servo-Arm Attacks), and on pg.70, the Master of the Forge has the Servo-Arm Wargear listed. Although it isn't very clear, my friends and I all agree that he has Arm and Beamer. Hope this helps! :D KILL! MAIM! BURN! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1782332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'm going to disagree. I think the Servo Arm is listed because the Harness includes two. A MotF does not come with 3 Servo Arms (2 Harness + 1) and if a Beamer is taken you lose the Harness and so the two Arms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1782361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniclurker Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 No, Vassakov. The servo-harness gives an additional servo-arm attack. However, the fact remains, that servo-arm is in the unit entry, you need a servo-arm to get a servo-harness, it makes only so much since, etc. etc. In fact, if you guys want to really RAW this thing, then the MotF servo-harness doesn't even give it an additional servo-arm attack, because he doesn't have a servo-arm attack to have one added to in addition. As such, you could read it as the MotF not getting ANY servo-arm attack. Simply put, a MotF is a techmarine that's been promoted ridiculously. If you really believe that he wouldn't have just as many mechandendrites as a techmarine, if not more, then you're out of it. This guy should have 20 servo-arm attacks... do you see his picture? He should be able to transform into a damned a dreadnought, not just repair one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1782366 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpawn Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I don't know about that. Where does it say you only get what's in the army list entry? I'd say that the lack of a servo arm in the list entry is just an oversight. Why would they list servo-arm in the unit entry if it's not even an option? An FAQ is almost guaranteed on this... Page 128, point 4. The wargear in the armylist details the items the unit actually carries. The descriptions earlier on in the book simply tell you what they might be able to have. If you want to talk mistakes, I think it far more likely that they either mistakenly, or through some bizzarre logic, included an item he cannot have in this description. Or are you suggesting (to pick an example at random) that the landspeeder always has a Typhoon Missile Launcher, as this is also listed in the unit description's wargear section? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1782483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexx Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Whoops, somehow missed Warpspawn's post, which pretty much said everything mine did. So yeah- as it stands he replaces the servoharness with a converrsion beamer, and then has a conversion beamer and no servo arms. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1782523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Dan'l Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'm also of the mind that the listing tells you to remove the Servo Arm/Arms/Harness if you choose the Conversion Beamer. And before anyone starts yammering that "No! RAW actually says blah-blah" I'll say that I don't care. I have no intention of building MINE with Servo Arms of any number, but if you want to build yours with them... go for it. Besides the silly thing gets a S10 AP1 gun and can become RELENTLESS by riding a bike. Any additional advantage rung out of the model through clever reading and assumptions as to which entry is the misprint is so unnecessary as to be pointless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1782804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Serion Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Nevermind Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152888-master-of-the-forge/#findComment-1789528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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