spectre312 Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 So, last night I had a small annihalation engagement against daemons. I used OID's dreadnought drop pod list. I've used that list to success in a few games earlier that day actually. But he brings in the monster. 250 points of hatred with a 20 point axe throwing technique. Well, all I can really say, is the iron clad destroyed a group of flamers of tzeentch, and a group of daemonettes. but that thirster wiped out my venerable in one turn, and a whole squad of grey hunters the next. I couldn't even wound it.... How do you fight daemons as a wolf? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Don't feel bad, the bloodthirster is nasty, I should know, I use one :tu: They all have INV saves, so don't bother with PWs. Try and keep out of combat with bloodletters, or use dreads to hold them up, use their fearlessness to your advantage, dreads are one of the things I fear most as a daemon player. Daemonettes shouldn't be too hard, just shoot them with standard bolters and they'll go down fairly quick, just bear in mind they will get the charge off. What else did he use? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre312 Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 the exact list was 1 Blood thirster 7 blood lettersw/icon 7 daemonettesw/icon 5 flamers That blood thirster mutilated my venerable dread.....We didn't finish the whole game though, the store closed on us :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 A 705 point army? That's a very unusual point value to play at, are you sure he had no other wargear upgrades? As for the 'thirster popping your dread, that's just bad luck I'm afraid, not much you can do about it, but on the up side you should have outnumbered him a fair bit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre312 Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 I'm sure he had other upgrades, the 20 axe throwing thing and all. we played at 750 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 I factored in the axe thingy, chances are he had bolt on his flamers, that's 30 points, basically it's an anti-tank weapon, chances are he never used it. At that point level, you could probably just leave his bloodthirster, send a sacrificial, but large, unit into it, and let it have fun chopping, then proceed to mow down his troops with bolter fire. Edit-By the way, the ranged attack is more likely to be the whip than the axe :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre312 Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 I had two dreadnoughts, and two teams of 7 grey hunters with meltas and power weapons. and everyone in a drop pod. So, the fact that he railed my venerable, and took out one team of hunters.....wasn't alot left for me to hit him with. and don't you guys keep coming back when a squad is wiped out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 and don't you guys keep coming back when a squad is wiped out? No.....was that what he was doing? 'cos that's blatant cheating. To be honest, your list wasn't really that good for taking out daemons, as I said, no power weapons, and lots of troops, at that points level anyway. Edit- There is/was an old rule in the daemonhunters 'dex that lets then do that, but only against daemonhunters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre312 Posted November 23, 2008 Author Share Posted November 23, 2008 No he didn't do that. Actually, i didn't ever kill the last flamer, or the last daemonette, because i figured they would come back. What does kill BT's? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 What kills BTs? Not a lot to be honest, lots of guns are your best bet, that or PFs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. A. K. Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Well to be specific I'd use a WGPL w/ the necklace, fist, and storm shield. The other claws will soak up damage and the SS will give you a chance to survive after they are gone, and doesn't everyone love hitting on 3+. Drop Pods may not be the best way to fight demons either, if you go first, half your pods will have no targets. On a side note: SW aren't really suited to play such small games (<1000). Our list is too segmented with units doing one thing very well and everything else o.k. GHs and BCs are not as versitle as a tac squad without the option of hanging back and shooting a heavy weapon. We HAVE TO advance into the assault just to bring our power to bear and no matter how tough you are, you will take some losses when the other guy gets to fight back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Well, knowing the list that you played with, I personally would have done this (not saying it would work): Use both packs of GH's to just use sustained fire to shave soem wounds off of the BT. There's really nothing in the pod list that can hold up to that kind of monstrous creature in CC, and the bolters can at least wound it (on 6's) and the meltas and PP (i think there's 1 in each pack?) have a good chance to wound as well. The flamer toting dreads should be able to take down a really good number of the lesser daemons. Have the ironclad drop down next to the daemonettes, as even with rending, they cannont hurt the ironclad (max value for them of 12) and i THINK they have to charge an enemy, kinda like BC's. Use the vendread to take out the flamers post haste. Those things can spell doom for your GH's mighty quick. JUst really try to keep the BT off your dreads, even if this means charging in with your GH's and sacrificing them. The dreads can shred the lesser daemons, but will get annihilated by an MC, especially a BT. Either way, as an above poster said, this list will be hard for you to face, as they do out number you and can bust out one of the biggest, hardest hitting MC's in the game in a little 750 pt battle. If you know your foe and have the models available, I would personally agree that a footsloggy army is the way to go. But even then, as SW's, you will have a hard time in lower point battles as you really will have a hard time just bringing numbers to bear. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 i THINK they have to charge an enemy, kinda like BC's. Nope, sorry, we always have a choice. I really am wondering where all these odd rules rumours are coming from. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyInDeath Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 i THINK they have to charge an enemy, kinda like BC's. Nope, sorry, we always have a choice. I really am wondering where all these odd rules rumours are coming from. Eh, was just something I thought I heard (hence the emphasis on THINK, I wasnt certain at all). Either way I'd take it against the daemonettes, just to see if a daemon player would be foolish enough to charge it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Either way I'd take it against the daemonettes, just to see if a daemon player would be foolish enough to charge it. If not you could always charge them anyway, as I said before, they're all fearless, so once in combat with a dread, they can't leave until either they are dead, or the dread is. With the new rules, they'll surround the dread, so no charging an MC in next turn to blow it up, no room to get into B2B. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 *nods* thats a decent way to keep your dread safe in this situation. The main problem Im seeing with your list is twofold: 1) those drop pods are 140 pts of a 750 pt army thats not doing anything. 1/5 of your points.... and it wont matter against demons that you pop in out of nowhere. As for the bloodthirster.... its nasty, its strong, but its not the toughest creature out there. It will kill a dreadnaught on the charge though, 9/10. Best advice here is hit it with mid to high strength weaponry such as assault cannons, missile launchers, and autocannons. Especially assault cannons though as the higher rate of fire is more important vs the 4++ save and it wounds on a 4+. Dont let bloodletters get close to you, and if faced between charging and being charged always charge them. Furious charge and power weapons = S5 banshees. Either wipe them out with shooting, or charge them with alot of bloodclaws and hope your dice favor you. Note however that they cant harm landraiders, so in larger games crusaders work well against them. Even against lesser tanks only one person in the unit can be given rending.... Daemonettes. *sighs* They arent that bad. 1 ranged "attack" that moves you closer to them, S/T 3, rending. Shoot them if you can, but for the most part they shouldnt be as high a priority as bloodletters/thirsters. Flamers.... actually Ive never fought flamers in the new dex, so Ill keep me mouth shut. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Daemonettes. *sighs* They arent that bad. 1 ranged "attack" that moves you closer to them Yet another example of rules musunderstanding, that's only if a 70 point (minimum) herald of slaanesh is attached to the squad, and it's a sub-par use of daemonettes to do that in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1782840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 23, 2008 Share Posted November 23, 2008 Ahh, see I thought it was the leader of the unit who did it. My bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1783180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 Nah, the leader makes you lose one attack, provided you pay the points for that upgrade, but to be honest most people don't as it's a pretty pointless upgrade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1783481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 To be honest your best bet is probably 4x WGBG w/ SS&TH, TDA, Wolf Pelts and WTN's with a WGBL with SS and Frost Blade in TDA. That should be able to take on just about anything in his list - though it's around 400pts... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1783495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 On the other hand a wolf lord with a mastercrafted thunderhammer, storm shield, wolf tooth necklace, runic charm, wolf pelt and frag grenades is only.... 144pts. Throw on a pair of fenrisian wolves to make him 168, and he can take out the thirster. I wouldnt bother with terminator armor, the khorne stuff ignors it all, the daemonettes have rending.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1783515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted November 24, 2008 Share Posted November 24, 2008 With drop pods I agree to get a WGBL with some fenrisian wolves hanging around some grey hunters. Giving him a necklace is a must (WS 10 is a beast). I'd suggest the large unit of WGBG as well, granted it WILL be your army, and you'll have like 2 small GH squads, but you WILL destroy his force. The WGBG will be putting out 3 AC shots, and 2 flamer templates (my favorite, or melta/plasma but the AP is wasted since it's all invulnerable). I've destroyed a 10-man daemonette squad in one turn of shooting at them with my WGBL and his retinue. The first thing you shoot at (depending on what's on the board) is almost always going to be the daemoneetes. These are fast, will kill a lot if left unchecked, but will die like flies to any fire. So kill them, then kill the rest. The Bloodthirster isn't that high of a priority, and you should try to get into combat with him with your retinue (unless he's the only guy on the board or a higher priority like he's about to charge your GH's). We look at him splitting up his force in half for first turn. So turn one he brings out either the flamers and daemoneetes, bloodthirster and bloodletters, or some other mix. The idea is he's only bringing 2 in first turn. So just kill one off COMPLETELY with your WGBG, then move on to the next. Unless he has ungodly rolling, he'll only have his last unit on the table around turn 3, by that time you should have shot all 3 if not 2 units to death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1783865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectre312 Posted November 24, 2008 Author Share Posted November 24, 2008 I appreciate the help guys. Maybe next time I'll try throwing Lars 4 ac list at him, or just move in floot slogger type. I actually went second, so he had some daemons on the field for me to hit at that point. I managed to get my iron clad to rip apart his flamers in CC. and one pack of grey hunters mauled his daemonettes down to the last model with firing. But, that thirster.....I fear those things. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/152968-space-wolves-and-daemons/#findComment-1784209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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