Special Characters: Lame

[Zeller]

Minigun, have you considered formalizing and sharing your ideas with GW?

[Cornelias]

Minigun, have you considered formalizing and sharing your ideas with GW?

 

shame really, it's a great idea but if he was to do that GW wouldn't officially use anything he sent them, as he'd own the creative rights behind the idea and could then( if he so wishes) take them to court for a huge slice of pie! :D

 

but yeah, it's a great idea and one i'd support wholeheartedly but i wouldn't hold out any hope for a new chaos dex :mellow: the queue is massive atm ;)

 

 

edit: back on topic, calgar costs you 250 points and for the same 250 we can have 9 csm with champ,rhino,powerfist ,IoCG, flamer,meltagun B)

i'd much rather just field a cheapish HQ and use the points to bulk up on troop choices etc. chaos got a big bonus in 5th ed with our dex, no other army is as spoiled for choice as us when it comes to scoring units.

[the jeske]

the problem is not calgar . no one cares about him he is overcosted even in an ultras army you have to play 2k pts games or more to actually use his buffs to the full. The "problem" is stuff like khan . look what he does and then what lets say tyfus does . Worlds of difference.

[Hlakir]

I'm sick of these dumb SM special characters. I never take special characters anyway because its lame and unrealistic (whats Marneus Calgar doing with your poorly painted mini-maxed 1500 point force? Shouldn't he be defending the gates of ultramar right now against 10 zillion nids?).

 

There is a 1000 members in a Space Marine Chapter. How many Marines do you have in your army? The characters must be somewhere and you control quiet a substantial part of the Chapter. :D

 

BTW.... have anyone else run into the combined forces of the Sisters of Battle and the Salamanders lead by Vulcan with as many Flamer and Melta weapons they can lay their hands on? I can tell you that it hurts a lot.... especially if you have a lot of tanks. :mellow: I wonder if GW even thought about that combination.

[the jeske]

I wonder if GW even thought about that combination.

they didnt think people would use more then one lash or DP . does that anwser your question?

+ they are all in the self standing dex phase . all the inq armies are dead to them .

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

BTW.... have anyone else run into the combined forces of the Sisters of Battle and the Salamanders lead by Vulcan with as many Flamer and Melta weapons they can lay their hands on? I can tell you that it hurts a lot.... especially if you have a lot of tanks. :huh: I wonder if GW even thought about that combination.

 

Or Grey Knight Termies with Thunder Hammers...

[MuGGzy]

I'd like to see a VDR system for SCs..SCDR?

give every trait or skill a point value and let us make our own damned SCs.

Basically set the point such that if you were to SCDR up any of the current SCs the generated one would still be a hair more expensive. That way, people that trully wanted to be creative *gasp* COULD. This wouldn't need to be limited to CSM or any race really. It would just take A LOT of tweaking and balancing to make it fair in game terms.

 

But really, if I choose to have some MONSTER DP (as all DPs SHOULD BE anyways, Spork of Worthlessness we get now be damned) and spend so many points on him that I can only field 2 small troops choice, I should be able to. I may lose horribly but so be it.

[djkest]

It kinda seems like our special characters really aren't that special. And Fabius Bile seems like he is a relic of the past. The only special character I might field is Khârn, and I'm still not quite sure about him. :)

 

I'm holding out hope for Lord Zhufor though. Here's what I'm hoping he has:

 

Chaos Lord, Mark of Khorne, Powerfist and Demon weapon, Terminator Armor, has 4 + D6 attacks at STR 8, furious charge

 

But who knows?

[chillin]

BTW.... have anyone else run into the combined forces of the Sisters of Battle and the Salamanders lead by Vulcan with as many Flamer and Melta weapons they can lay their hands on? I can tell you that it hurts a lot.... especially if you have a lot of tanks. :) I wonder if GW even thought about that combination.

 

I don't see how a sallies special character rules would effect a non-s/m army.

SoB are not even in the s/m dex. I would never let an opponent apply a s/m SC's rules to SoB or grey knights, that game just wouldn't happen, I don't see it wking in a tourny either..

[chillin]

I'm holding out hope for Lord Zhufor though. Here's what I'm hoping he has

 

Chaos Lord, Mark of Khorne, Powerfist and Demon weapon, Terminator Armor, has 4 + D6 attacks at STR 8, furious charge

 

That's ridiculous, makes the worst s/m specials look under powered.

[Lord_Caerolion]

BTW.... have anyone else run into the combined forces of the Sisters of Battle and the Salamanders lead by Vulcan with as many Flamer and Melta weapons they can lay their hands on? I can tell you that it hurts a lot.... especially if you have a lot of tanks. :P I wonder if GW even thought about that combination.

 

Seeing as it replaces the Combat Tactics of Marine squads, which Sisters of Battle don't have, they don't get the advantage.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Chapter Tactics: If you include He'stan then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master-crafted, and all flamers, heavy flamer, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin linked.

 

Emphasis in red mine. By RAW this doesn't specify, as with the others with Chapter Tactics, that they exchange Combat Tactics for something else.

[the jeske]

yep everything loses tactics and no matter what you want sob get dual flamer/melta [nothing special as the build has to few sob unit to make good use of faith and sob units ].

 

its the same with certain sm specials . you can get both buffs at the same time .

[Zeller]

In able to lose Combat Tactics to gain the special rules doesn't one have to actually have a model with Combat Tactics to begin with? It does say that instead of CT you get the nice special rules.

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

But when it comes to He'stan, it doesn't say that models must lose Combat Tactics to gain anything. I think the intention was to provide things like Dreadnoughts with similar benefits- they don't have Combat Tactics. But by RAW, allies get it too.

 

Heck, think of Apocalypse- I can see sickening things from Havocs in Rhinos with meltas. It is 'your army,' after all.

[Massawyrm]

I'm sick of these dumb SM special characters. I never take special characters anyway because its lame and unrealistic (whats Marneus Calgar doing with your poorly painted mini-maxed 1500 point force? Shouldn't he be defending the gates of ultramar right now against 10 zillion nids?).

 

I hate to be the guy to point it out - but asking for REALISTIC when talking about 400th century space marines?

 

The problem most folks have with special characters is that they get the special-ness of their own models (and often the fluff of their DIY army) confused with the nature of the game. While the game allows for you to customize your army to the point that it is unrecognizable to others as what it is - some people don't want to play that way. Some people want to play Marneus Calgar and the force he was with that needed to secure an LZ before an Imperial Navy bombing run...or whatever. The idea is that YOU are playing out the battles of the 400th century, NOT that you are playing out mock battles of what REALLY happened in the 400th century fluff. Far too many people forget that.

 

But the new SM characters are interesting. They are Army Options with statblocks and fluff built in. But they'll let you dump the fluff. COUNTS AS is simply a tool that allows DIYs to join in the fun of the classic fluff. It says "Here are the rules, now make your army interesting." If your interest is playing the famous characters - so be it. If not, you don't have to be screwed out of already approved rules. Afterall, everything in this game is really just a bunch of modifiers to a simple Dice Mechanic, dressed up with plastic/metal miniatures and a science fiction setting.

 

But for all the "The Chaos Codex Sux!" and the "New SM Codex is overpowered!" I don't have a problem beating the crap out of Codex marines. Special character. No special character. All shall rot. Father Nurgle has a way to eat them all.

 

And to the guys suggesting AP2 Pie plates to deal with these termie armored fools, all I can say is you're thinking too expensive. Just shoot the crap out of them. 1 out of 6 wounds will stick. Promise.

[Night Stalker]

Realistic within the fluff Massawyrm. Out of context you're right. When counting you're not

 

CSM codex does not sux because of special characters - most of them are fine - it's good job by Gav&Alessio ...

SM codex is not overpowered - there are just undercosted special characters ... it's not fun to play against undercosted units played by WAAC player [who choose mostly such units] - the fact they are special characters is just icing the cake :>

[King Tiger]

I'm sick of these dumb SM special characters. I never take special characters anyway because its lame and unrealistic (whats Marneus Calgar doing with your poorly painted mini-maxed 1500 point force? Shouldn't he be defending the gates of ultramar right now against 10 zillion nids?). But now we have to put up with characters like Lysander: 4 wounds, 2+ armour save, 3+ invulnerable, eternal warrior, strength 10... and he's not even a chapter master or anything. Does no one else find this a bit effed up?

do you prefer red whine, or white whine?, or basic whine whine

[Brother Nihm]

I'm sick of these dumb SM special characters. I never take special characters anyway because its lame and unrealistic (whats Marneus Calgar doing with your poorly painted mini-maxed 1500 point force? Shouldn't he be defending the gates of ultramar right now against 10 zillion nids?). But now we have to put up with characters like Lysander: 4 wounds, 2+ armour save, 3+ invulnerable, eternal warrior, strength 10... and he's not even a chapter master or anything. Does no one else find this a bit effed up?

do you prefer red whine, or white whine?, or basic whine whine

King Tiger,

with reference to the =][= B&C Rules and Policy Changes =][=,

 

as a result of the above comment, your warning level has been increased.

 

Should you wish to remain a member of the BnC I strongly suggest that you familiarize yourself with the board rules and adhere to them + post constructively in the future.

 

 

Now.

Let's get back to discussing special characters.

[daemon*hunter]

Atleast in WFB you can make a Chaaracter better then the specials for (somtimes) less then half the cost!

[Fury_of_Fenris]

i like my mini huron blackheart. he is actually prettyy good a power fist weapon and a heqvy flamer plus a phsycic power heaps good can easily blow a normal marine her out of the water

[northoceanbeach]

I really can't see what the problem is. I don't like the direction GW is going, I liked the traits way better. But the hate on the SM seems weird to me. When I first started the game I played Blood Angels, and I was so jelous of the chaos codex. I didn't know ANYthing about the fluff at the time and I switched to Chaos because the codex was so fun and varied.

 

But I remember how pissed I was when I played my Brother who had Black Legion about all the crazy characters he had. Dp's, that horrible Bloodthirster, heck, every AC was a mini character that I COULDN"T KILL! Why they had maybe 5 S5 attacks with power weapons with spiky bits and master crafted, why, they're as good as some of the 200 point SM characters.

 

All I'm saying is I too wish GW hadn't ruined the codex, but it's clearly jelousy and resentment that makes you pick marneus calgar to hate on. We had our time in the sun, and it was twice as bright as what the Space Marines have today.

[Pyro_Falcon]

Special Charachters should have (like in the good old days) a minimum points limit for the army they are included in, there should not be so many, they should cost more, need consent, and for the love of slaanesh, keep them as a fun thing for when you want to mix it up with your 4friends and/or have written an awesome narrative.

 

-Pyro

[Cornelias]

well you can moan on about special characters being undercosted but the flip side of the coin is many of the special/elite units in C:SM are very expensive and clearly aren't as good as the troop choices available to chaos players.

 

people are forgetting how lucky we are :)

[Cale]

well you can moan on about special characters being undercosted but the flip side of the coin is many of the special/elite units in C:SM are very expensive and clearly aren't as good as the troop choices available to chaos players.

 

people are forgetting how lucky we are

 

That's a good point. Vanguard, for instance? What a joke. Sternguard are only marginally worthwhile. Tactical squads are so vastly worse than Chaos Space Marines that the two are hardly worth comparing.

 

There are some nice things in the new Space Marine codex: Kor'sarro Khan, Power of the Machine Spirit, attack bikes, and Crusaders (to name a few) but the advantage that Chaos Marines have in terms of the quality of their scoring units more than makes up for all of that. Plus we have some neat stuff, too: Obliterators, Defilers, and Daemon Princes, for example.