General Retreat Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I tried Searchy-Fu for this one, and didn't find anything. If it's already been addressed, please just point me to the topic! So, If Sicarious grants an elite skill to a Tactical Squad, in this case, Tank Hunters, does he also grant it to the squad's dedicated transport? Sicarious's Rule, Battle-Forged Heroes, C:SM pg 85: "... One Tactical Squad in an army that includes Sicarious can have one of the following special rules at no additional cost: Counter-attack, Infiltrate, Scout, or Tank Hunters." Basically, I'm thinking a Tac Squad with Lascannon, Meltagun, Combi-Melta and Powerfist, plus a Razorback with Lascannon/T-L Plasmagun. In an army with Sicarious, this would yeild a Str 10 (effectively) Lascannon in a combat squad, and a mounted combat squad with massive AV potential, a Str 9 Meltagun and Combi-Melta, and a Str 9 Powerfist against vehicles. Would the Lascannon and Twin-Linked Plasmagun on the Razorback also benefit from Tank Hunters? Thanks, General Retreat Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 safe bet would be "no" but i couldn't tell you where you would find evidence either way. historically, vehicles do not benefit from shooting abilities of the assengers. other special rules, such as outflank, do pass on to vehicles as described in the BRB under USRs and Reserves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1785064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Yes and no. No, the transport is not the tactical squad, they are the recipients not it. Yes, some USR's confer rules to a units transport, the USR in question will specify(such as outflank as nighthawks mentioned^^) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1785085 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 I would have to say, unless there was some ruling otherwise then no it does not as teh rules state the squad and its dedicated transport are not one unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1785089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Retreat Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 Okay! Thanks, guys! I thought so, but I can't nail it down either. I'll have to toy around with Outflanking squads now, and see what I can come up with. Corollary question: If Sicarious grants a squad Infiltrate, and one combat squad deploys in a Razorback in reserve, can Sicarious now join them in the transport in reserve, then enter the board with them when they Outflank? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1785122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 sicarius attached to a 5-man squad in a razorback belonging to them is a legal reserves combo. combat squads from 10-man units with an attached IC in a transport only big enough for 6 models gets tricky with reserve rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1785373 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher 102 Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 No, infiltrate is lost by a squad that is joined by an independent character that does not have infiltrate. A squad with infiltrate may infiltrate but their transport can not. A squad with infiltrate or scout may outflank with their transport but they must be riding in their transport when they arrive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1785374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Retreat Posted November 25, 2008 Author Share Posted November 25, 2008 A squad with infiltrate or scout may outflank with their transport but they must be riding in their transport when they arrive. Yep, that's the idea. The combat squad is given Infiltrate by Sicarious. It's dedicated transport is a Razorback, which inherits the ability to Outflank. The combat squad and RB are started in reserve. Sicarious is also started in reserve. Can I deploy him (in reserve) in the Razorback which has the open space for him? The transport hasn't outflanked yet, technically, that decision is made when the reserves roll is passed for the unit. I don't see anything in the rules that disallow a character from joining a unit in thier transport in reserve, assuming space, but the situation where the transport inherits Ouflank and whether the character can still deploy in it. If the transport inherits Outflank, doesn't that mean anything deployed in it can Outflank? Once again, grey area, but I simply cannot find precedent for or against it. In a situation where there was no special rule, Sicarious could deploy with the transport from reserve without question, and to my interpretation, the power of the transport to outflank is the action rule, and there's nothing saying that a transport that can outflank can only do so if the transported unit can do so as well. Any thoughts? This could be a great combo for getting my Captain behind the lines quickly, I think it's legal, and I don't think it's overpowered, if anything it may make him too vulnerable, but it would make for an awesome late-game suprise! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1785717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawks Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 problems- the vehicle does not confer the infiltrate USR to the IC. Sicarius with the unit causes them to loose the infiltrate ability (and thus outflanking), as the infiltrate USR is marked with an "*". you cannot place combat squads into reserve, as the split is made at deployment. you cannot, then, have the 10-man unit listed as "in" the transport, by RAW. You can have the IC with them, though not in the transport. as the transport and unit are separate and not able to be combined as the unit does not fit inside, then the trans and the tac squad (with or without IC) are rolled separately. so you can't have a combat squad in a razorback, IC doesn't matter you can't have infiltrate nor outflank with Sicarius attached you can't roll for the razorback, sicarius, and the unit all at once, as it is not a legal combination of units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1786071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Retreat Posted November 26, 2008 Author Share Posted November 26, 2008 Wow! Thank you for the info! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153168-does-a-sicarious-granted-skill-apply-to-transport/#findComment-1786233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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