Shooting through area terrain

[Rogue]

I think this is one of those 'common-sense vs RAW' things, but I'm confused by the example of firing through area terrain on p22 of the mini rulebook (where you've got three marines in a forest).

 

Marine A is inside the area terrain, and so gets a cover save. Easy.

Marine B is behind the terrain, but between two elements of it (trees), so gets a save. Easy.

Marine C is behind the terain, but not between two elements, so isn't in cover, even though he's behind a piece of terrain. Huh.

 

Is this a function of the new true LOS thing - as the very low base of the area terrain doesn't cover him, it doesn't provide a save?

 

I think my confusion comes from the fact that area terrain affects movement from the moment you reach the base, but apparently not LOS.

 

Any clarification appreciated.

[Mal]

Marine C is not on the base of the terrain, he is not covered in amy way by the terrain, so he is not in terrain. He is at the end of the forest area not behind it.

[Rogue]

More than 50% of the marine is behind the base of the forest (from the pov of the camera).

 

I think what I'm finding odd here is that for movement purposes, area terrain covers the area defined by the base; and for being in the area terrain (for cover), the area terrain covers the area defined by the base; but when it comes to shooting through the terrain, area terrain only overs the area between objects on the base.

 

Look at Marine A again. He's in cover. But should he move 2" backwards, stepping out of the woods, he'd no longer be in cover (as he'd now be in a similar position to Marine C, out of the woods and outside the two trees), even though there's more of the area terrrain between him and the camera.

 

Not consistent, so slightly odd.

[Souchan]

The 2 terrain feature rule is for fully visible models between them. Should he not be between to yet still obscured by a solo feature he of course would also get one.

[Rogue]

I agree, but that's not the case here.

 

The marine in question is behind the base of the area terrain, but not behind the trees themselves.

[nighthawks]

first, always remember that the rules are abstractions. if you try to make them all logical, your head will explode. most work in common sense ways, many do not.

 

that said - I have to back up both Rogue and Souchan - the model not covered by the "between elements" rule DOES still get a cover save if it is obscured in any reasonable way agreeing with p21 (and therefore p16). however, if not fitting the LOS rules for cover, a model behind area terrain and NOT "between elements" does NOT receive a cover save.

 

there's always the 50% of the unit in cover rule, too, so it's rather rare that one model in such a position will make or break the cover save for the unit.

[WarpSpawn]

I think exactly how you interpret the area terrain rules is one of those things worth discussing before the game, especialy if you do not have great terrain in your collection. I'm sure plenty of people are still using woods that only include 2-3 actual trees, on a fairly sizable base, as this was all you really needed in 4th edition. Such terrain will potentially leave vast swathes that provide no cover, if you obey the "between 2 elements" rule to the letter. To take it to an extreme, a single tree on a base would offer virtually no cover, even though you might have intended for it to represent dense woodland.

 

My personal preference is to grant a cover save if the model is at least 50% behind the base of the terrain, unless some other rule negates it (MC or vehicle, for example).