nighthawks Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 I fail to see how this is abusive of the rules. let us examine: 2 pairs of claws. expensive (2X). counts as one pair of claws (of course, you could choose which one, but there is no difference) 1 pair of claws, purchased ad hoc. is a pair of claws. model has no ranged weapon. costs X. 1 pair of claws, purchased in trade of 1 weapon. model may have ranged weapon or another CCW. cost before further upgrades is X. so the sgt, and only the sgt of an assault squad has the ability to have both a ranged weapon AND a pair of LCs. given their unique role on the battlefield, it makes sense that he would be allowed this loadout. likewise, the availability of a single claw allows for its purchase in combination with another special CCW to allow the choice of either a re-rollable PW (LC) or maybe a power fist. as both disallow extra attacks, the purchase of an LC pair and a fist is really overly expensive, and this seems sensible, not abusinve. actually, I'd say its rather good rules writing for once. hurrah GW! And thank you, Matthew Ward. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153218-in-practice/page/2/#findComment-1790876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angronn Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 The twin lash argument again, huh? Well, let's see here... GW gave no limit on lashes, nor did they set a precedence that would make one expect that they meant to. Argement, no more... GW gave assault sergeants a pair of claws and a ranged weapon, and precedence says models can have more than two weapons (one can't say that only one unit having an option means that it shouldn't have it...). Sammael is the only marine on his bike, that's why you can't fire both. It's been the same way for marine bikes that are armed with a meltagun (or whatever) and the TL bolters for a while. That's called a precedence, as well. The 2 weapons are there to give you an option. There ARE inherent risks in firing a plasma cannon, especially if you are 2" away from the squad you are shooting it at. Argument, no more... However, it has been documented that GW intended both weapons to be fired but didn't give it a special rule to allow it. So, RAI would really say they should both fire. RAW says they can't... Every other entry in the SM dex (from memory, I lost mine and can't check) lacks the 'pair of lightning claws' option, and instead has the option to upgrade 1 claw per weapon. That sets a precedence. Suddenly, stupid entry in assault squad gives you the ability to replace one weapon with 2 claws... :cuss?!?! You can actually RAW it either way, and RAI it one way. I choose to RAW it the way it makes sense. However, sense everyone else seems to like to ignore the 'replace both' option, and the word 'pair', then there's not much to be done. It's obvious beyond obvious that it shouldn't be that way, so taking advantage of it is abuse.... regardless of legality. I don't see how any RAW interpretation would not allow for the ranged weapon/pair of claws combo. Please explain? Who cares if it's unbalancing.... actually. Hold up. Ima go grab my rulebook. I just thought of something that may make this whole argument pointless... Did you get lost? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153218-in-practice/page/2/#findComment-1792100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniclurker Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Did you get lost? ;) No, just lost interest. Ended up painting about 50 marines. Basically, there's no need for me to be in this discussion anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153218-in-practice/page/2/#findComment-1792919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bannus Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 The pair of claws is not an accident or typo. It allows the Assault Squad Sergeant to retain his pistol and take a pair of claws - much like Shrike can. Yes, you could four lightning claws. It would be horribly expensive and no more effective than two claws - but it can be done by RAW. By allowing for the pair option, the Assault Squad Sergeant can still fire in the shooting phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153218-in-practice/page/2/#findComment-1792963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
angronn Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Did you get lost? :devil: No, just lost interest. Ended up painting about 50 marines. An impressive (and much more productive) use of time! :woot: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153218-in-practice/page/2/#findComment-1793317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniclurker Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 My army now looks much more like Salamanders. I've needed to do that for about 3 months now. It's soooo green now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153218-in-practice/page/2/#findComment-1795444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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