Drop Pod doors

[WolfLordLars]

Actually, the explosion and the weight would work against the drop pod if it was mired. It would blow back inside, as the weight means the explosives would have to be quite strong to have it push its way out. Its a physics thing. Like how your car door wont open underwater. You have to roll down the window to get out. If you used an explosive charge to try and open it, it would just direct the explosion inside, harming you. If you had something that completely blew the door off its hinges, you could probably try and slide it out of position and get out.. but you cant push it out. Not sure how else to explain it.

 

Also, IIRC, pods are disposable and one-use. I would think the thrusters are going to be trashed after the landing, the doors blown, the whole thing would be a wreck. Easier to make a new one than repair it. Especially with the resources available to the Imperium.

 

No.. I am going to maintain that the doors would totally blow off before landing, as the 'flower' deployment doesnt work in real life under the conditions Space Marines would be expected to use. Few battlefields are the clean and clutter-free flat tables we play on.

[muzzyman1981]

Well, the explosions would happen an instant before it touched ground I would imagine to prevent something such as the situation you are describing. I see where you are coming from though, I would think there would be emergency release explosives on the hinges to be able to blow the doors completely off in case of emergencies or a more soft ground landing as you describe but in general the doors would I think mainly want to be fixed to the Drop Pod. Also the Drop Pods would I think normally be used when they do have a harder ground to land on except in extreme circumstances, ground composition would be discussed during the planning and the pros and cons weighed before landing in a soft area.

 

I would really like to see where it says that a Drop Pod is a one-time use vehicle, I would imagine with the electronics and engines and the high durability of the vehicle that it could be salvaged for re-use (remember these are pretty tough to stand against the high-speed atmosphere entry so I would imagine hitting the ground at 50-75mph or so wouldn't cause all that much damage).

 

In any case, this I believe is one of those points were we can agree to disagree but still hopefully maintain a cordial debate about the issue =)

[Grey Mage]

Ever seen something that lands on the planet without using retros? The craters are big...... And yeah, drop pods have big retros but on the other hand unlike say NASA spacecraft drop pods dont take their time and slow down in orbit for a bit.... they go SLAM.

 

Though Ill have to find it though.... I remember rather specificly that drop pods were collected and redone when possible.

[muzzyman1981]

Yeah they do have retros and they still land VERY hard, so that only Space Marines can use them due to the stresses. They also make good sized craters, cause they are about the size of a Rhino falling from the sky, but the doors would blow, in either case (totally or "flowered") before it actually touched down to prevent the possibility of the doors getting stuck due to the Pod in the crater it creates.

[WolfLordLars]

Ok, I dont think your getting why the flowering of the doors wouldnt work in some terrain.

 

Take your Drop Pod model. Now, take a box of some sort, like the one it came in. Cut a whole wide enough to accept the pod with the doors closed. When you put the pod in it, the top of the box should be about 1/3 up the way of the doors.

 

Now, deploy your pod with the doors open, with the center of the pod over the hole. Press it down into the hole. The doors will snap shut. If you try to press them open, you would have to tear the box to get them open.

 

Now, instead of a box, imagine concrete, hard packed dirt, sand, debris, etc. Unless the retro thrusters burned a big crater (which is also a plausable reasoning behind it), the doors simply wont open. Unless it lands somewhere that it doesnt sink into that is flat enough to allow for that kind of space. Marines dont drop pod into terrain like that very often, I would imagine.

 

I guess the crater from the retros works for explaining it... but I still plan to leave my doors shut. ;)

[muzzyman1981]

Well that is what I am talking about the weight of the doors. Imagine this Drop Pod basically hitting an intersection, as you've said there isn't enough room for doors opening however the weight of the doors which I would say is quite a bit (say 1 ton each for argument's sake)...add to that the momentum of the hatch opening charges AND the speed of the Drop Pod touching down. The combined force would obliterate dang near anything in the way.

 

Again, most of the time the Drop Pods would be deployed in an area where they have the most optimum chance or working as they should.

 

I'm not saying you should open them (or not glue them), as far as I'm concerned...more power to you. The thing I am wondering is that if the point of view that is taken that all the doors blow open (to give the quickest access out of the vehicle from any direction while allowing the internal weaponry the greatest arc of fire) AND a person who has glued their doors shut (which again I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't, shoot how many Rhinos or LRs do you see with ALL of their doors able to open?) how would LOS work for targeting purposes (cover I think would just be a simple 4+)? If the doors were down and two models were on opposite sides they have a high chance of seeing each other so that they may fire through the Drop Pod but with the doors glued up....I hope I am making sense in what I am asking =P

[Grey Mage]

*shrugs* d6+2 str 10 AP 1 impact hits.... who needs this minimum scatter distance anyways? Just use them as galatic piledrivers.

[WolfLordLars]

Well that is what I am talking about the weight of the doors. Imagine this Drop Pod basically hitting an intersection, as you've said there isn't enough room for doors opening however the weight of the doors which I would say is quite a bit (say 1 ton each for argument's sake)...add to that the momentum of the hatch opening charges AND the speed of the Drop Pod touching down. The combined force would obliterate dang near anything in the way.

 

Physics.. it doesnt work like that. Even if they weighed a ton, depending on where the obstruction is, it might not get any momentum. If its low on the door, near the hinge, it wont get ANY momentum.

[Grey Mage]

Well the main thing for me, as far as the doors weight is concerned is that after a few seconds it doesnt really matter. The force the gravity exerts on an object is exponential, so wether the thing weighs one ton or two tons you still end up with a crap ton. The main factors, physics wise, is how fast they are going down and how fast they are pushing up with the retros.

[Vassakov]

So, we've pretty much established that a Drop Pod would not work in reality - which is not unusual for 40K. Certainly WolfLordLars' argument makes a whole lotta sense, the hole would bury the Pod unless it does some serious messing with the laws of physics.

 

But can we actually draw LoS through an open Pod? I would say not, as even with TLoS it provides far, far to much of an obstruction.

[Grey Mage]

Thing is at my LGS they use laser pointers frequently, and you can draw true line of sight through... especially if you dont put the little gates in. I hate those little gates, so this is important to me. Ill note we are commiting a logical falacy by debating the physics of it though.

[Vassakov]

Ok, so if you can draw LoS through a Pod, de facto logic you can draw LoS under a Defiler or Soulgrinder, right?

 

Again, I would say not. Although for the most part TLoS works well, I'd say you can't draw LoS "through" a vehicle - it's just too much of an obstruction.

[Grey Mage]

Id certainly agree with you up to a point... the problem being that you can RAW. Despite all the talk about how our toy soldiers are not in fact statues they are exactly that.... and TLOS means they are veiwed as that for shooting. You can shoot under a defiler, or a soulgrinder, unless it is modeled within about a half inch or less from the ground.... and if they have a sniper looking character lying down you might have to touch it yourself. This is why I have a love/hate relationship with TLOS.

 

But to put it another way, a wraithlord can see right over a rhino in front of it and shoot the people/tank on the other side. Why? Because its just that tall.... TLOS says it can. If I went by the above statement *and yes Im being anal because some people I play with will be* then he wouldnt be able to, wich itself makes no sense. Wich way to err? The RAW say we err to the first case.

 

That being said they will get a cover save IIRC, as it passes through the hull of a vehicle...

[muzzyman1981]

Oh yes, they would get a cover save, probibly a 4+. My concern is for people who glue their doors shut would say "Well there is no LOS, when in reality 9/10 times there would be if the doors were down. I am going to ask the TO of the tourney here for what he thinks, and get back to you. Maybe a fresh opinion who hasn't been debating the issue over the last few days would help?

[the jeske]

you guys do know that there is a world of difference between what a model does in fluff and what it does in rules . There are no rules for moving model parts in w40k . For the core rules all models are considered to be static [with very few exeptions like the LR ramp] and not moving . as the reality thing goes . Rules dont care about that [otherwise a squad of bolter armed sm should be able to stop a lemman russ shoting at its front] , they only care about thats whats in the codexs and the core book .

[Ullr Direfang]

well this kind of question was done in the Drop Pod Footprint topic

 

but to kind of sum it up real quick:

1) you measure from the hull/base (which is about 4 inches) as though the doors are up.

2) the doors are for extra "character", if you will, and do not actually need to open or move to affect the drop pods usability, the doors can even be glued up, for it is just the model that matters. but even with the doors up, they still DO NOT block line of sight.

[the jeske]

but even with the doors up, they still DO NOT block line of sight.

where was this ruling given ?

[Ullr Direfang]

but even with the doors up, they still DO NOT block line of sight.

where was this ruling given ?

 

it was decided that how it was written was it doesn't matter if the doors are up or not, being that when they land the doors open no matter what.

[WG Vrox]

When I can afford my DP, I plan to use earth magnets for the doors in this way I can open and close the doors I want, I will not go as far as to open and close then during play, so whatever ones I open will stay open.

 

For those models that are perma glued shut, well they don't get their DWML or SB so that seems like a waste. I guess you could glue it to the top, but that seems kinda wrong on the new model. but for LOS purpose I would like to have my weapon on top of the DP, makes it to where your own troops don't provide a cover save to the enemy.

 

In addition if I choose to leave some doors closed the SB/DWML will not be able to fire in that direction so keeping the doors closed has it's pro's and con's like all things in the game.

 

WG Vrox.

[muzzyman1981]

The problem with that is firstly, it is much too complicated in an already complicated game. Secondly, if you choose to only open a couple doors and say that you can't shoot that way then you have to keep it that way all game AND/OR you can only exit from doors that are down which depending on how you want to fight, get on the opposite side of the pod to get cover from your enemy or on the enemy side but if the fighting shifts or an enemy approaches from the closed side you can't fire at him.

 

MAYBE if you opponent allowed you could open the doors during your turn....but as I said that adds yet another layer of complexity.

[WG Vrox]

MAYBE if you opponent allowed you could open the doors during your turn....but as I said that adds yet another layer of complexity.

 

would not even consider this, as like I said whatever doors I open upon landing would stay open and those that are closed stay closed thoughout the game. I have seen DPs done up with magnets and it's pretty slick. No flopping doors to get broken off......

 

WG Vrox

[muzzyman1981]

That's cool, well as long as there are clear rules and whatnot then personally I say do whatever you want. I just prefer to keep it simple (especially cause I am still very new at the game =P).

[WolfLordLars]

but even with the doors up, they still DO NOT block line of sight.

where was this ruling given ?

 

it was decided that how it was written was it doesn't matter if the doors are up or not, being that when they land the doors open no matter what.

 

WHO decided this? Is it in an official document or FAQ?

[the jeske]

it was decided that how it was written was it doesn't matter if the doors are up or not, being that when they land the doors open no matter what.

man its not my foult that GW likes to put fluff in to rules discriptions . "the hatchs are blown" etc is a fluff part in the whole 5th ed you wont find a rule that says how blowing up hatchs from transports works + the precedence of letting people have movable models on tha tables is well lets just say not the best idea .

 

 

would not even consider this, as like I said whatever doors I open upon landing would stay open and those that are closed stay closed thoughout the game.

show me the rule that lets you open or close doors in the rules .

[WolfLordLars]

What he said. (jeske)

 

 

If you draw TLoS under the legs of a defiler and see no problem with that, then I WILL be gluing the doors on my pods. That is how the model is given to me, with the option of doors closed or open. Unless GW tells me I MUST build it without the doors, no problem there. If that was the case, it blocks LoS.