Some Rule Questions

[Xinua]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm still a pretty new player and got some questions..

 

following setup:

Have a Chaos Sorcerer with Lash, currently joined with a unit of Noise Marines, they did not move this turn, and it is the shooting phase now.

at about 20' away there is troop of genestealers that are coming in fast and hard.

 

Now, I want to use the Lash ability, so the Unit is attacking the genestealers unloading it sonic blaster goodness. But my question is does the Lash happen before or after the rest of the troop shot? As in does the rest of the unit shoot before the genestealers are pushed beyond the 24" range with the lash? Or maybe this is up to me to chose in which order it happens?

 

 

Another situation we happend to stumble upon yesterday and we could not find any rule say one way or another..

 

it is turn 5, troop A is in retreat, retreating straight towards the long side, it just so happens when he makes he retreat move he happens to end up on top of an objective!

 

turn 5 ends, and we role to finish the game, and we role a 1, the game ends.

 

so now is the question can the owner of troop A claim a point for being on one of the objectives??

 

To me it sounds a bit silly that a unit that is retreating can claim an objective! we didn't find anything in the rules saying one way or another..

 

we have decided to make this a house rule, that any unit that is retreating can not count as a scoring unit..

[jester262]

question one. Since the lash is used during the shooting phase it's up to you to decide which you want to do first. So yes, you can shoot then lash.

 

question 2, no, a retreating unit CANNOT claim or contest an objective. It's too busy trying to stay alive.

 

hope that helps :P

[Tokunator]

Question A is tricky, as all shooting from one unit is presumed to happen simultaneously, however, moving them can change the range (or move them out of range), so I would assume that you can pick in that case, but I am not sure as the rule says simultaneously.

 

Question B is simple. In the Rulebook, in the description of the scenarios (page 70ish), it states that fleeing units are removed and count as destroyed at the end of the game. So they cannot claim objectives.

[maniclurker]

I would say that you can shoot them, as they are within range when you declare your shooting. If they end up farther away than 24" away when all is said and done, well, that's just the nid players problem, isn't it.

 

P.S. I'm being quite impartial here. I hate lash.

[Praeger]

I agree with Manic.

 

Declare shooting.

 

Measure range.

 

NOW use lash and fire normal weapons.

 

This does mean that even if the lash ends up bringing the enemy to within 12" you would still only fire once with rapide fire weapons as they where originaly over this distance, same with being able to shoot them if they end up moving over 24" away

[jester262]

I agree with Manic.

 

Declare shooting.

 

Measure range.

 

NOW use lash and fire normal weapons.

 

This does mean that even if the lash ends up bringing the enemy to within 12" you would still only fire once with rapide fire weapons as they where originaly over this distance, same with being able to shoot them if they end up moving over 24" away

 

so, according to this logic if I shoot a rhino loaded with marines and blow it up. I can't fire at the marines that got ejected in the same turn because technically they are still in the vehicle. But that would be wrong. So I still say it all goes on the order in which YOU the shooter decides to go in.

[Seahawk]

That last statement is true on a unit by unit basis. When a single unit fires, all of its shooting is resolved simultaneously; hence, the lash and other weapons all happen at once. This is also why, if a small unit takes enough hits, you can put two plasma wounds on the same dude along with bolter wounds, or whatever, taking them all for the team.

 

But when the next unit fires, it starts all over again, so Praeger's example doesn't mean what you said at all. There's a new unit outside of a blown rhino; nothing says you can't shoot them with a different unit. But where you would make sense is a single squad killing the rhino with the lascannon can't turn the rest of its bolters on the squad now, as they all fired at the same time at the rhino.

[HiveFleetEzekial]

so, according to this logic if I shoot a rhino loaded with marines and blow it up. I can't fire at the marines that got ejected in the same turn because technically they are still in the vehicle. But that would be wrong.

 

According to the rules.. no, it isn't wrong. The only allowance the rules make for targeting the passengers, in in way, is if you happen to blow the transport up and wish to charge said passengers that same turn with the squad that blew it up. This is the only time, I've seen, in the rules where it allows two seperate units to be treated as one. Otherwise, a transport is always seperate from whatever occupants it may/may not have. And since all firing (from a squad) is resolved at the same time, every shot you fire (that hits ofcourse :lol: ) would end up hitting the transport instead, weather they end up only punching more holes into a blown out hull, or ting off it.

 

 

 

(edited because: clarity)

[maniclurker]

jester262: Exactly like Seahawk says, all of the shooting FROM ONE UNIT happens at the same time. You measure the range to the unit you are firing at, and then fire with all weapons. This is made explicitly clear, especially with the new 5th ed rules on blast and template weapons. They all happen at the same time. As such, all of the casualties from the shooting, and the effects of the lash, occur at the same time. However, shooting from one unit does not occur simultaneously as shooting from another. As such, it is perfectly fine to unload a devvy squad full of plasma cannons on some terminators, after you blow up the LR they were in.

[jester262]

I know that. from the sound of the question, unless I misread it, we were treating the Sorcerer and the shooting unit as 2 seperate units

[jester262]

and I just reread the question and I sure did misread it. My bad.

[GTang]

pg. 18 in the BRB for the first question on the simultaneous things. Since they're in the same unit, they happen at the same time. The Lash might help the next unit shoot them better or something, though.

 

pg 90, last paragraph of the first column in the BRB is the somewhat illogical location for the clear answer to your second question.

[Praeger]

ALL OFF TOPIC POSTS HAVE BEEN DELETED IN FULL.

 

Are you guys really wanting to start playing games like this NOW when harsher rules are in effect?

 

You should be glad your dealing with me. Im not going to be generous ever again.

 

If you have sugestions for someone, PM them, if you dont like how someone posts, ignore it, and if it dosnt make sense ask for clarity DONT start making comments about their language skills.