Orbital Strikes; a review

[BaronTuman]

Just before the 1st turn begins (it says 'at the start of the battle'), pick a piece of area terrain as the 'keyed location' for the Orbital Strike.

 

You need to go back and re-read the rules Darius. It specifically says after sides are chosen but before deployment. I also disagree with your arguments on the Monolith, but that's been done to death.

 

Anyway, I'm considering taking this to bump my Pure Sisters army by 100 points (to 1850). I'm thinking that obliterators are going to be an issue, so I'm opting for a Lance strike. For 92 points, I get a WYSIWYG Inquisitor along with a lance strike which isn't too bad.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

You need to go back and re-read the rules Darius. It specifically says after sides are chosen but before deployment.

 

"Special rules:

 

Plotting: The Orbital Strike must be keyed to a specific piece of area terrain at the start of the battle. Make a note of the plotted target before forces are deployed but after deployment zones have been determined."

 

pg. 31, Codex: Daemonhunters

 

You're right (and I'll change the OP accordingly), but I don't think it changes things too much.

 

In 'Seize Ground', objectives are placed before deployment zones are determined. In 'Capture and Control', you do have to nominate before he places his 'home' objective, but given you don't have to tell him where it is keyed to, he's still largely screwed. 'Capture and Control' makes it easier to 'deny objectives = win', because aside from your own 'home objective' (which you should be heavily defending) it's the only one he has.

 

I also disagree with your arguments on the Monolith, but that's been done to death.

 

I already changed the OP :lol: and if you read through you would've seen that Charred Heretic convinced me about that 'Living Metal' issue. So, no need to worry.

 

Anyway, I'm considering taking this to bump my Pure Sisters army by 100 points (to 1850). I'm thinking that obliterators are going to be an issue, so I'm opting for a Lance strike. For 92 points, I get a WYSIWYG Inquisitor along with a lance strike which isn't too bad.

 

Orbital Strike isn't designed for this. If you wanna counter Obliterators, I would recommend bringing a Malleus Inquisitor with Mystics. Stick him 12" or less away from an Excorcist, and then laugh as his Obliterators arrive and get annihilated by missiles (wounds on a 2+, causes Instant Death, they only get a 5+ against it).

[BaronTuman]

The player in question brings either 6 or 8 of them, plants them on a hill, and shoots. No deep-strike. Amazingly, he's only got one strategy, but he wins SO often that in this particular because of that particular strategy.

 

Kindof a special instance no doubt. I'm going to post my list with an eye towards increasing it to 1850 in another thread.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

The player in question brings either 6 or 8 of them, plants them on a hill, and shoots. No deep-strike. Amazingly, he's only got one strategy, but he wins SO often that in this particular because of that particular strategy.

 

What a moron <_< :lol: if he does that, then Lance Strike them to death. He'll deserve the carnage that ensues. Even without the Lance Strike, Exorcists with Rhino blockers (to claim hull down) should clean them up no problems.

[BaronTuman]

So, I just played a game with a Lance Strike, and had some comments.

 

Let's consider the proposed strategy. Put an objective on a terrain piece and then choose that terrain piece for your Orbital Strike. Seems like a good idea, but it's a risky one, because it means you can't go near that objective. For tournaments where you get more points by getting more objectives, you're shooting yourself in the foot!

 

Second, it had better be a HILL on which you place that objective. I chose a bunker where my opponent placed some noise marines, and after I finally exploded the bunker, he still got a cover save, meaning that it was close to worthless.

 

It comes in on turn 2 at the earliest, meaning that you'll get 3-4 rolls of the dice, which means proably only one "hit". The average scatter will carry it 7" which is beyond range to hit anything. unless he's camped out somewhere else.

 

Finally, it costs a minimum of 90 points for a Elite Inquisitor and a Lance Strike, which STILL gives up an easy kill point with 2 wounds and a 4+ save! Taking an Inquisitor Lord then gives 2 KP, but gives access to a reasonable Psychic Hood I guess.

 

So, I have to say that I'm just not sold on an Orbital Strike in a competetive list.

[Dragons]

So, I have to say that I'm just not sold on an Orbital Strike in a competetive list.

 

One thing you HAVE to keep in mind about it though... While most of the time it doesn't make it's points back directly (though when it does it's SPECTACULAR).. It has a HUGE psychological impact on your opponant.

 

Using it as a tool to keep your opponant off ballance is priceless.. I love OS's :P

 

-Dragons

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Let's consider the proposed strategy. Put an objective on a terrain piece and then choose that terrain piece for your Orbital Strike. Seems like a good idea, but it's a risky one, because it means you can't go near that objective. For tournaments where you get more points by getting more objectives, you're shooting yourself in the foot!

 

;) Obviously you don't do that. You OS the ENEMY objective ie the one he placed inside his DZ. You probably won't get a scoring unit into his DZ alive, so it's a great way to prevent a draw. Then, all you need to do is hold onto 1-2 objectives to secure a win.

Second, it had better be a HILL on which you place that objective. I chose a bunker where my opponent placed some noise marines, and after I finally exploded the bunker, he still got a cover save, meaning that it was close to worthless.

 

Should brought melta-strike ;) anyway, if they are holed up in a bunker break it open first, then next turn the OS will resolve on the exposed squad.

It comes in on turn 2 at the earliest, meaning that you'll get 3-4 rolls of the dice, which means proably only one "hit". The average scatter will carry it 7" which is beyond range to hit anything. unless he's camped out somewhere else.

 

You can't just state this as fact. OS are just too variable; some games you won't hit a single thing, other games they'll scatter onto something every turn.

 

Finally, it costs a minimum of 90 points for a Elite Inquisitor and a Lance Strike, which STILL gives up an easy kill point with 2 wounds and a 4+ save! Taking an Inquisitor Lord then gives 2 KP, but gives access to a reasonable Psychic Hood I guess.

 

Why wouldn't you take an Inquisitor Lord anyway? The WH Lord is awesome in close-combat, he's like the best tarpit in the game. As for the DH Orbital Strike, you don't need an Inquisitor to get it ^_^

 

So, I have to say that I'm just not sold on an Orbital Strike in a competetive list.

 

It's pretty good for the points, but there are always better options in Heavy Support, plus you might need the points elsewhere. Orbital Strike should be viewed as a optional extra, after you've gotten a solid core of an army put together. Then, if points allow, add an Orbital Strike for taste. It may not do much in a game, but at the very least the psychological and 'area-denial' ability of the weapon should make it an attractive choice. Nothing says Inquisiton like 'oh no, I'm losing control of this area. 'Divine Fury', lock onto these co-ordinates and send them to hell' B)

[Charred Heretic]

THe density of the table, and the size of the opponent's footprint can probably double its expected return.

[BaronTuman]

:P Obviously you don't do that. You OS the ENEMY objective ie the one he placed inside his DZ.

 

In many tournaments getting 4 objectives instead of 3 will gain you extra battle points. It's even worse if you happen to have 4 objectives. I DID place it over "his" objective.

You probably won't get a scoring unit into his DZ alive, so it's a great way to prevent a draw. Then, all you need to do is hold onto 1-2 objectives to secure a win.

You're missing my basic assumptions. Turn 2 it MIGHT arrive, and IF it doesn't scatter, then they MIGHT not make their cover saves. All these combine to make an OS not viable as an anti-infantry. We'll talk about anti-vehicle in a moment.

 

Should brought melta-strike ;)

It wouldn't have mattered. The first time it didn't scatter (3rd shot) completely off the bunker, it exploded it.

anyway, if they are holed up in a bunker break it open first, then next turn the OS will resolve on the exposed squad.

Try to keep up here... :) (just teasing BTW ) That's exactly what happened! Then, they made an average number of saving throws. meaning I killed 3 guys! Big deal! He basically KNEW where the strike was going, and figured that by putting ONE unit of marines in there, his odds of keeping them alive were good enough to bascially ignore it completely, and he was correct.

It comes in on turn 2 at the earliest, meaning that you'll get 3-4 rolls of the dice, which means proably only one "hit". The average scatter will carry it 7" which is beyond range to hit anything. unless he's camped out somewhere else.

 

You can't just state this as fact. OS are just too variable; some games you won't hit a single thing, other games they'll scatter onto something every turn.

Yes, actually I can, because those ARE the facts. They are not reliable enough to be worth their points. At some point, you've got to make a decision about the likelihood of a unit doing damage and comparing it to other ways to spend points.

Why wouldn't you take an Inquisitor Lord anyway? The WH Lord is awesome in close-combat, he's like the best tarpit in the game.

I've heard that before, and simply put, it's not true. There are too many AP 4 weapons in the game to make it worth his points, and in a "pure sisters" list. In my opinion an Inquisitor Lord is just 2 free kill points, with no reliable damage output. No thanks!

As for the DH Orbital Strike, you don't need an Inquisitor to get it ^_^

Fair enough. They SHOULD get something for being such an ineffective army B)

 

So, I have to say that I'm just not sold on an Orbital Strike in a competetive list.

It's pretty good for the points, but there are always better options in Heavy Support, plus you might need the points elsewhere.

Looks like you're agreeing with my basic premise here!

It may not do much in a game, but at the very least the psychological and 'area-denial' ability of the weapon should make it an attractive choice. Nothing says Inquisiton like 'oh no, I'm losing control of this area. 'Divine Fury', lock onto these co-ordinates and send them to hell' B)

Psychological considerations are not nearly as important when you're playing a competent opponent. The simple math of the game can give a very good indication of how to proceed. Sure, you MIGHT get luck and have them fail all of their cover saves when you finally manage a hit. And you MIGHT get lucky and have them panic and make a bad decision. But if you're on the top table at a large tournament, making those assumptions while you're writing your list isn't the best idea in the world!

 

Now, that being said, I've considered taking them as anti-vehicle with a Melta, but how many static vehicles are really a problem for us?

 

Predators, possibly vindicators and Whirlwinds. None of these are scoring, and cannot hold troops. Sure, you might have a land raider with troops embarked, but then you still have the same problem, except that they'll likely park it there on turn 5 thus ensuring that destroying it will not kill enough troops to prevent taking the objective.

 

The primary reason I see for them is that they don't give up kill points, but for a WH list the Inquisitor at least, supplies the easy kill point(s).

 

Sure, they are fun, they are fluffy, but I'm still not seeing them in a competetive list.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

In many tournaments getting 4 objectives instead of 3 will gain you extra battle points. It's even worse if you happen to have 4 objectives. I DID place it over "his" objective.

 

I was just making the point that at the very least, you'll take that objective out of the equation. Given that it was an objective you weren't likely to take (because being in his DZ, he's had time to set up his army to defend it heavily), its a net gain for you. As for the other objectives, thats up to your Troops count and how the rest of the battle goes.

You're missing my basic assumptions. Turn 2 it MIGHT arrive, and IF it doesn't scatter, then they MIGHT not make their cover saves. All these combine to make an OS not viable as an anti-infantry. We'll talk about anti-vehicle in a moment.

 

4+ is pretty likely, I like the new Reserve rules TBH, things come on a lot faster. Anyway, if you're that worried about OS not showing up, bring an Armoured Fist Chimera with Improved Comms (cheapest way to get it) to speed up your Reserves.

 

When placing the OS you should take into consideration the deployment of the rest of his army. Try to gauge where his units are likely to go, and then sketch out where 7" scatter (the average) would place the template. It's very much 'educated guesswork', but just think of it as a minefield that scatters.

 

It wouldn't have mattered. The first time it didn't scatter (3rd shot) completely off the bunker, it exploded it.

 

Ah ok, well thats the vagaries of scatter dice I guess. Like I have said, OS is quite a variable weapon.

 

Try to keep up here... smile.gif (just teasing BTW ) That's exactly what happened! Then, they made an average number of saving throws. meaning I killed 3 guys! Big deal! He basically KNEW where the strike was going, and figured that by putting ONE unit of marines in there, his odds of keeping them alive were good enough to bascially ignore it completely, and he was correct.

 

No no, I mean 'break it open with another unit ie Landraider lascannons, Hellfire Dreadnought etc'. Then, next turn the OS resolves on the now-exposed squad+objective. So, even if the central hole scatters off, because they're no longer inside an AV12 building, you should be able to get partial hits (it's a big template). Sure, they get cover saves (but remember, only from point of impact, so always check), but it's only a 4+. You should still net a few casualties, and they will either pin themselves (to get a 3+ cover save) or be pinned (because you'll nab at least one of them in all likelyhood, forcing a Morale check at -1Ld, pinning them after shooting is resolveD).

Yes, actually I can, because those ARE the facts. They are not reliable enough to be worth their points. At some point, you've got to make a decision about the likelihood of a unit doing damage and comparing it to other ways to spend points.

 

Name me a unit that generates a S10 AP1 or a S8 AP3 (2D6 against armour) Ordnance Barrage with unlimited range, arriving from Reserve, that can never be destroyed, all for 70-80 points. Can't? Thats cos it's not directly comparable; it's like an Eversor Assassin; used incorrectly, of course they suck. But with the right application (like a lot of Inquisition stuff), you can get a unique advantage over other armies.

I've heard that before, and simply put, it's not true. There are too many AP 4 weapons in the game to make it worth his points, and in a "pure sisters" list. In my opinion an Inquisitor Lord is just 2 free kill points, with no reliable damage output. No thanks!

 

Two things. Firstly, if your a DH player you don't need a Lord to take the OS, so for us it's a moot point. Besides, we usually do take the fire support Lord anyway, because he's that good.

Secondly, if your a Witch-Hunter, the WH Lord is a powerful and effective assault unit;

 

WH Lord, eviscerator, His Will be Done

3 x Crusaders, 3 x Acolytes w/power armour+man-catcher, 2 x Chiurgeons, Familiar

(221 points)

 

Add a transport of your choice (Landraider is a good option, if expensive), and deliver them into enemy characters/Monstrous Creatures. It's brutal and highly effective at A: soaking up enormous amounts of incoming damage and B: chainsawing things to death. The Crusaders add extra S3 power weapon for clearing out chaff, allowing the Inquisitor Lord split his attacks onto the enemy IC/Monstrous Creature. You should give it a try.

 

Fair enough. They SHOULD get something for being such an ineffective army cool.gif

 

:P Keep telling yourself that mate. Just cos we don't have 'instant-win Faith' powers or under-costed infantry doesn't mean we can't be an effective army. The trick is to ally into a Sternguard-heavy SM army with Vindicators ;) Kantor+PAGK w/psycannons redefines pain if you are infantry, not to mention the Sternguard Hellfire. DH's work as allies (pure is hard to pull off), SoB are overpowered *ahem* balanced enough to work.

I'm kidding, but seriously, ineffective? DH's just require skill ^_^

 

Sure, they are fun, they are fluffy, but I'm still not seeing them in a competetive list.

 

(shrug) Well then the OS just isn't for you. I don't take normal Landraiders in my DH army (despite the fact many people swear by them), because I see them as conflicted in purpose (and I prefer more PAGK). Crusaders are a different story, but again only at 2,000 points or higher. Other people take them at 1,500, I choose not to.