Starting a Word Bearers Force ... but have a few questions

[m_r_parker]

Ok, so I've decided to build up a Word Bearers force - yes, I have in fact just finished Dark Disciple, but that has nothing to do with it :P

 

I was hoping to get some advice on what exactly should and shouldn't be used in a Bearers force frmo both a fluff and a gameply perspective. I know that I have some ideas and viewpoints, but realise that there are many people out there with both more knowledge and experience on how this goes.

 

Basic Troops: - Should these guys be pure undivided, or is it acceptable to have marked squads (Say one of each for balance)? I won't be including cult troops (at least not for normal games, maybe for Apoc), but I do like the idea of having a squad with the mark of Khorne as pseudo-assault troops, and a squad with the mark of Nurgle for holding objectives, etc. Acceptable, or selling out?

 

Heavy Support: - From what I've seen, the Bearers make extensive use of Daemon Engines, so the obvious choice would be to take Defilers as well as some other Daemon Possessed choices (I'm thinking Vindicators here) and Dreadnoughts. However, for the base cost of a Defiler I could have 2 Obliterators, which I feel would be better as they are inherently more flexible. Are the Oblit's a taboo?

Whilst I've mentioned the Dread's here, a quick modelling question: The forgeworld Chaplain Dread, a good starting point for a Dread containing a previous Dark Apostle?

 

HQ: - So I know I want a Terminator Lord to lead up a unit of Terminators, but I'm struggling as to what would be the best representation of the Dark Apostle. I'm thinking of another Lord with Power Weapon, however I'm also thinking a Sorcerror would also be quite fitting too with the various powers and Force Weapon. I'm thinking another Lord, as this better represent the combat ability of the Dark Apostle.

 

Daemons: - I want to include some Daemons somewehre in the force, as I like the idea of having another (or couple of) Troops choice waiting to deep strike close to an objective in the latter half of the game. But, for the points that they are, would it be better just to use the points on more marines?

 

Over the next few days I'll be looking to create some sample lists, roughly in the 1750 range as this is the most popular points level that my group play at.

 

Cheers.

[Deciple of Lorgar]

Basic troops They are not Word Bearers if you take any marks of the gods. Word Bearers worship chaos as a whole, the battlefield is the church of all gods not just one or two, therefore Word Bearers offer equal praise.

 

Heavy support When it comes to tanks and heavey equipment, Word Bearers are the same as other chaos legions, even if it is suggested by others that they prefer Daemon engines, every choice in the army has it's place, not just Defilers and crazed Dreadnaoughts.

The chaplain dreadnought could be made to look like a fallen dark apostle (heresy, sacrifice all your captains now!) I have though about that my self, but it might take a lot of work to make it look coruppted and chaotic.

 

HQ It's up to you who you want leading your force. I usually take a lord to represent a dark apostle, being that a daemon weapon is more easily to pull off as his weapon of office then a force staff.

 

Daemons Lesser daemons can assault the turn they come on to the field, count as troops so therefore a scoring unit, cheap and easy to feild in large numbers, so it's more of a player by player choice. some times I find them useful, sometimes I wish I had of taken more marines.

[TheDarkApostle]

Welcome to the true Path of Chaos, discipline m_r_parker :)

 

Chaos Marines: The general consensus seems to be that God specific marks and icons are a no-no. So preferably only Chaos Glory. Of course there are a few players here who would disagree with me but that seems to be the general consensus as I said anyway.

 

Heavy Support: Noting prevents you from anything. The Dark Apostle commands! What ever he sees in his visions, that's how the Host is formed.

 

HQ: The path to Apostle-hood requires you to make pacts with dozens upon dozens, if not thousands, of the various creatures of the Empyrean so for a Apostle to realize his psychic potential and develop Psychic Powers is not unusual at all. :) So you are free to do as you wish.

 

Daemons: While most people tend to think that Daemons really needs to be represented I say one more as with the Heavy Support, the Apostle commands! He have a vision where they fight next to Daemons? They fight next to Daemons. He has a vision where he and his marines fight by themselves? They fight by themselves.

 

Word Bearers really are the one single force which easily can use almost everything with a perfect fluff justification :)

 

TDA

[minigun762]

I pretty much agree with whats been said.

Icon of Chaos Glory is the safe bet. If you want them to be assaulters, just equip them as such.

Any kind of Heavy is really acceptable, remember that the Word Bearers do have 2 planets to call home and the one in the Maelstrom (Ghalmek?) is a Forge World, so I think you can justify most any vehicle. As Obliterators are mercenaries, its not hard to imagine a few deals being made.

Either one works I think. I don't get hung up on the 4+ Inv personally so I've never liked the whole Mark of Tzeentch as count-as. To me, a Dark Apostle =/= a Loyalist Chaplain in gear, only in position and authority. I like the Undivided Daemon Weapon or a WarpTime Sorcerer

Daemons can be a great addition, especially due to 5th Edition being Troop Heavy. Remember that they can be summoned from a unit in a transport, so as your CSMs are riding around, the Daemons can pop out from the outside of their Rhino. They can also run (but not move) if they aren't within assault range, and this is nice for spacing them out a bit. Think of them as naked CSMs with an weaker (Inv) save and you'll be able to use them well.

[sonsoftaurus]

I run my Word Bearers with Icon of Chaos Glory. Partly due to the 'purity' aspect, but partly because I think it's the best deal out of the icons. If going with one of the others, IMO generally better off just springing for the cult troops.

 

But I do think that the current Icon instead of Marks setup is well suited for use by WB if desired. It's just a temporary thing, and I think would fit the WB. Going on a hack and stab mission - beseech Khorne for aid. Need speed and alertness - petition Slaanesh to sharpen your senses. Etc. Make the appropriate sacrifices, move on.

[Honorius]

I was also thinking of starting a small Word Bearers army to join with my Thousand Sons (as thousand sons are not very competitive atm). I was thinking of having a lord with power weapon and MoT to represent his accursed crozius like in the last codex. Or would it be better to go for an undivided daemon weapon? I was also thinking of making the squad that he is joined to into Khorne Berzerkers. This is because in the last codex when the Dark Apostle could get the Demagogue ability, it said he was exceptionally well versed and could incite his brethren into a fanatical fervour. This let them re-roll morale checks. This would represent their fearless and furious charge abilities while in the presence of the Dark Apostle. Obviously I would keep them together (They will probably be in a land raider anyway). Would it also be fluffy for them to join a Thousand Sons army?

[minigun762]

I was also thinking of starting a small Word Bearers army to join with my Thousand Sons (as thousand sons are not very competitive atm). I was thinking of having a lord with power weapon and MoT to represent his accursed crozius like in the last codex. Or would it be better to go for an undivided daemon weapon? I was also thinking of making the squad that he is joined to into Khorne Berzerkers. This is because in the last codex when the Dark Apostle could get the Demagogue ability, it said he was exceptionally well versed and could incite his brethren into a fanatical fervour. This let them re-roll morale checks. This would represent their fearless and furious charge abilities while in the presence of the Dark Apostle. Obviously I would keep them together (They will probably be in a land raider anyway). Would it also be fluffy for them to join a Thousand Sons army?

 

I'm more of a Purist so I don't see the Word Bearers joining another Legion in battle really, unless it was part of a Black Crusade. Word Bearers are actually fairly well organized still unlike most of the other Legions and so aren't normally broken up into small warbands.

 

Personal opinion but like I mentioned before, I don't like the Power Weapon/Mark of Tzeentch combo because I'm not hung up on the 4+ Inv save.

A Word Bearer is also very unlikely to join a bunch of Beserkers, especially the Dark Apostle, plus that brings in the whole issue of having Khornish and Tzeentchian units in the same army which I frown upon.

 

This is going slightly off topic, but if you're looking for units to join your Thousand Sons, I'd say that Night Lords or Alpha Legion would be more likely (both for their own reasons but a temporary alliance would not be unheard of) or you could always add in a bunch of Renegade Marines, maybe those who want the protection of a more established Chaos force or maybe they're enemies of the World Eaters, Death Guard or Space Wolves, all of which might entice the Thousand Sons to join them.

Or when in doubt, they can always promise some forbidden knowledge/relic.

[Honorius]

I was thinking of doing Night Lords, Alpha Legion or Word Bearers but I really like the Word Bearers for many reasons. If I could still take Cultists then I would definitely use Alpha Legion. Don't be mistaken, the 4+ invulnerable save =/= the Rosarius of loyalist Chaplins, it is the protection of the Dark Gods.

 

Don't think of them as Berzerkers, think of them as crazed, zealous Word Bearers. What better way to represent their behavior than Furious Charge. The only thing they have different from other Word Bearers is the +1 WS. :D I guess I just want the old codex back.

[Brother Vader]

Whilst I've mentioned the Dread's here, a quick modelling question: The forgeworld Chaplain Dread, a good starting point for a Dread containing a previous Dark Apostle?

 

How about the Forge World Word Bearers Dreadnought instead? The chappy dread is a cool idea, but getting rid of the massive imperial eagles on the front and making it look good would be a huge job. If you fancied a change from using your termi lord you could also use the dreddy as a Daemon Prince from time to time. It's not hard to imagine a Dark Apostle being elevated to daemonhood for outstanding service to the ruinous powers, even one who's been interred in a dreadnought. Give him doombolt so he's got a ranged weapon and you're good to go.

 

You could also make a cool obliterator from a Techmarine. Give him a powerfist instead of the power axe and put some heavy/special weapons on the servo arms in place of the claws, stick him on a 40mm base and he'd look cool. I think he'd fit in nicely with the more organised nature of the Word Bearers (and their forgeworld) that's already been mentioned on this thread.

[Seahawk]

For your HQ, don't forget that there are more than one type of leader in Word Bearer armies. Obviously there's the Dark Apostle, but with the new fluff (which you've read) there is also the Coryphaus and the First Acolyte, represented by my terminator lord and sorceror, respectively. They lead in smaller skirmishes, while the Apostle only swaggers into play in 1300+ games.

[m_r_parker]

Great responses guys, thanks.

 

Ok, so both cult and god specific marks are out, which is a shame I feel. Just have to be content with regular guys. I will have to do some re-jigging of my ideas (plus have to fgure out exactly what to do with a bunch of Khorne Bezerker models) but I'm sure I will come up with something.

 

I still have a truck-load of ideas floating around my head. I know that I want a Termie Lord as a Coryphaus (would have mentioned it earlier, but despite just finishing reading both Dark Apostle and Dark Disciple I relaised I had no idea how to spell Coryphaus :tu: ), along with a retinue of Terminators to accompany him. A couple of squads of regular marines in Rhino's is also high on my list (mainly because I have the models already), and a Defiler (because I also have that model, plus I think it would look great decked out in legion colours and scriptures)

 

I really like the idea of Techmarines as Obliterators. I've never been partial to the Obliterator models as the overal concept is quite ugly, plus they're extortionate in price too. I can see the conversions already - the direct only Techmarine (bare head - perfect for additional scriptures), with a full sevo-harness with various weapons. Box of plastic Devastators should make the conversions easier, and I've got so many plastic power fists & special weapons that I'll be able to throw some in the mix.

Question about the current Obliterator models - why do they all have Assault Cannons modelled on them? Is this a legacy from a previous codex?

 

Somewhere in my force, I know I'll be getting a Land Raider. Not sure where yet, attaching it to the Termies is tempting but I'm not 100% sold on it yet. I think some Havocs will also make an appearance (no doubt finishing off the rest of the plastic heavy weapons from the Dev box), and possibly some possessed along the way. I know they're not the most loved units, but the models are supreme, plus the age old excuse of having some already.

 

With regards to the Possessed, what is the best way to get them into combat? I realise that the easiest answer to this would be a rhino, but there's always the ability to get wings that get's thrown into the equation. Does anyone do something completely different?

 

Cheers for all the input so far.

[the jeske]

With regards to the Possessed, what is the best way to get them into combat?

there is no good one . you have 2 [3 if you play with FW stuff]. the rhino but it blows up fast and they cant shot , aint scoring so have to move after that [and are generally slow at moving] and whats most important they cant assault out of a rhino .And you ahev the LR . Problem with the LR is that it costs a lot of pts [and your already using a unit that costs a lot of pts] and they have to be used in pairs . this kind of a list doesnt work well under 1850 pts and using a single LR just doesnt cut it because it gets countered to easy . Generally speaking its better to put any other scoring unit in to a land raider that costs the same pts and it works better [what doesnt mean it works good by the way].

[TheDarkApostle]

Question about the current Obliterator models - why do they all have Assault Cannons modelled on them? Is this a legacy from a previous codex?

In the 3,0 Codex they could yes. However with the current mini's being released with the 3,5 'Dex in which they didn't... :)

 

TDA

[chillin]

Ok, so both cult and god specific marks are out, which is a shame I feel. Just have to be content with regular guys. I will have to do some re-jigging of my ideas (plus have to fgure out exactly what to do with a bunch of Khorne Bezerker models) but I'm sure I will come up with something.

 

File off all the khorne symbols. Buy a couple of sprues of reg csm helmits and a csm shoulder pad sprue (one of the brzrkr shoulder pads has a khorne symbol built into it). Replace the bunny ear khorne heads w/ reg csm heads and the few khorne shoulder pads w/ reg csm shoulder pads (some people cut/clip/file off the bunny ears, but I think that is too much work as a csm helmit sprue only cost a few dollors). And use them as a WB's assault squad.

[minigun762]

As far as the Possessed go, I'd probably stick them in a cheap Rhino.

However a good alternative and one that I've thought about doing a few times, is to use the Possessed models (which are awesome) as my Aspiring Champions. Alot of those arms could easily be justifed as Power Weapons or Fists or just mix and match the parts with the normal Champion.

 

The Techmarine as Obliterator swap would look good I'm sure. I'm with you in thinking that the Obliterator model is horrible and super expensive.