Ace of Gods Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 So i have 3 3rd edition Obliterators. They came already with their bases as part of the model. The thing is, they are alot smaller than the 4th and 5th oblits. Since models are, by the rules, supposed to be modeled on the base they came with (This case being the one that is actually part of the one metal piece model) does that mean they are good as is? Or, since newer oblits have larger bases, does that mean i need to glue them all to a larger base now ? No one in my group has any problem with me commanding them on the ground they walk right now, im just curious as to what you all think about them, and the bases they are on, or should be on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 Those oblits are free to either play on the orginal bases [by RAW] or if your play group allow you, stick them on bigger bases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1791988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron-Daemon Forge Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 So i have 3 3rd edition Obliterators. They came already with their bases as part of the model. The thing is, they are alot smaller than the 4th and 5th oblits. Since models are, by the rules, supposed to be modeled on the base they came with (This case being the one that is actually part of the one metal piece model) does that mean they are good as is? Or, since newer oblits have larger bases, does that mean i need to glue them all to a larger base now ? No one in my group has any problem with me commanding them on the ground they walk right now, im just curious as to what you all think about them, and the bases they are on, or should be on.  The current Oblits are on 40mm base (Termies once). But then again... it is up to yourself & if your plan on enetering tournament just ask before hand as some will say yes other will say no.  However the key part of your post was  No one in my group has any problem with me commanding them on the ground they walk right now  So as long sa your happy & your group happy, that all that matter end of the day. However rememeber (maybe thinking of 4th Ed) the rule was base given with the models or bigger (so Daemon prince came 40mm, but poeople put him on 60mm Dreadnought size) not sure how it is for 5th Ed. But again as you said you & your firends seem alright. So it up to you :huh: I would say stick with what your got to be honsty.  IP Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1792021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Stalker Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 They must be mounted on the orginal bases [p.3 rulebook]. Any larger base need opponent permision. Â RAW :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1792033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 While RAW is certainly that they should be mounted on the base they came with, i think RAI is that they should be mounted on the base size of the current incarnation of the model. When they made the new oblits they put them on terminator sized bases for a reason. In the current edition of the rules oblits are on 40mm bases and should be, regardless of the actual model. I think the rule to use the base they are included with was intended as a broad sweeping general rule to prevent arguments when it comes to conversions and the like. Â Consider this situation: Somone converts their own oblits out of standard chaos marines. Standard chaos marines come on small bases, not terminator size. So what size do they put them on? The model came with a small infantry base, and so by RAW must be mounted on that size base. But that is obviously wrong, because the model is not a chaos marine anymore it is an obliterator and so obviously belongs on an obliterator sized base. While there is certainly no official word on this, i think it is just common sense to use the newest rules with the newest models. Using an older model should be regarded in basically the same was as using a conversion should. In the latest version oblits go on 40mm bases, therefore all oblits being played with the newest rules should go on 40mm bases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1792806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 In the latest version oblits go on 40mm bases, therefore all oblits being played with the newest rules should go on 40mm base thats not true . only terminators were given that ruling , oblits didnt . also the way your going now anyone that uses an old rhino or a pred/razorback/dreadnought etc based on the old rhino chasis has to replace the model , because its illegal based on its different size . But I do give you that oblits are tricky two models two different size and unlike with conversions , where the rulebook clearly says that if there are any problems with LoS etc a legal model has to be put down[so if someone would make a counts as oblit from a sm , when I call a judge or a los check he has to replace the model with a legal oblit model] , but oblits are totally GW models so you cant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1793147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 thats not true . only terminators were given that ruling , oblits didnt .  Huh? What ruling. The current oblits come on 40mm bases, yes?  also the way your going now anyone that uses an old rhino or a pred/razorback/dreadnought etc based on the old rhino chasis has to replace the model , because its illegal based on its different size  Yes in an ideal game balance world this would happen i suppose, but i do not think it is needed. There are both advantages and disadvantages for vehicles being smaller or larger. Its easier to hide the old rhinos but harder to hide things behind them for example. Also replacing a vehicle costs a lot more than some bases. Being able to put oblits on a smaller base is a blatant advantage as larger bases are only good if you want to be in cc. Why should my oblits be easier to engage and in higher danger of having a deepstrike mishap than my opponents just because they have older models? Why would i be punished for using the new and proper models? (This is a hypothetical question, i don't use oblits). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1793204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Huh? What ruling. The current oblits come on 40mm bases, yes? yes but the old 3ed oblits werent . when GW made their new plastic loyalist terminators in the 4th ed , they FAQed that even if you use old terminator models you still have to rebase them. there was no such FAQ made for old 3ed obliterators . Â Â . Its easier to hide the old rhinos but harder to hide things behind them for example. not if your using 3ed csm/sm or RT csm/sm. Â Also replacing a vehicle costs a lot more than some bases. you do know that rules arent interested , if you have enough cash to do something , right. GW doesnt care if your EC army is now totally illegal and you practiclly have to buy a new one . The fact is that that there is a rule to use models on bases that they are supplied with and that obliterators were never mentioned in the terminators FAQ. Why should my oblits be easier to engage and in higher danger of having a deepstrike mishap than my opponents just because they have older models? yes. this is what the rules say. Why would i be punished for using the new and proper models? (This is a hypothetical question, i don't use oblits).ah so again your saying here that old models are inproper and shouldnt be used because they are illegal . Well that kind of a hurts anyone using old models and not only in chaos armies. Also it forces the question , how long are models new and legal . When is the time that when you say "no you cant play with those models , they are too small" specially in an edition of counts as when one could use a goblin to represent on an obliterator . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1793272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 ah so again your saying here that old models are inproper and shouldnt be used because they are illegal . Well that kind of a hurts anyone using old models and not only in chaos armies. Also it forces the question , how long are models new and legal . When is the time that when you say "no you cant play with those models , they are too small" specially in an edition of counts as when one could use a goblin to represent on an obliterator . Â No. I'm not saying old models, i'm saying old bases. Thats the whole point. You are turning a simple common sense matter into a complicated rules hassle overa couple minor nitpicks that are already covered by rules for conversions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1793767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 This is starting to thread dangerous ground guys. Act civil, we don't want any of the loyalists to catch on to us now do we? :) Â TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1793782 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 No. I'm not saying old models, i'm saying old bases. Thats the whole point. You are turning a simple common sense matter into a complicated rules hassle overa couple minor nitpicks that are already covered by rules for conversions. But its not complicated at all . old oblits or old tanks dont come under the conversion rules , because they are totally GW made and totally legal and GW tells us to use them the way they are . right now there are 2 things you cant do with chaos inthe 5th ed. cant use small bases for old terminator models and use jump packs to represent wings[sucks to anyone who had a NL demon prince]. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1793840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drudge Dreadnought Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 No. I'm not saying old models, i'm saying old bases. Thats the whole point. You are turning a simple common sense matter into a complicated rules hassle overa couple minor nitpicks that are already covered by rules for conversions. But its not complicated at all . old oblits or old tanks dont come under the conversion rules , because they are totally GW made and totally legal and GW tells us to use them the way they are . right now there are 2 things you cant do with chaos inthe 5th ed. cant use small bases for old terminator models and use jump packs to represent wings[sucks to anyone who had a NL demon prince]. Â This is totally not what i'm talking about. All i'm saying is that instead of the rule in the book only saying that models go on the base they come with, it would make more sense to say that in the case of conversions or older models they should be put on the base size that the newest incarnation of that model comes with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1794466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkApostle Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 However we all know that sense and GW should never go into a sentence together. Â And it appears to be very clear that GW has said nothing about what to do in the case of older models. Which it pretty obvious since they wouldn't care to much about their older stuff, just the newer stuff. Â TDA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1794584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 No. I'm not saying old models, i'm saying old bases. Thats the whole point. You are turning a simple common sense matter into a complicated rules hassle overa couple minor nitpicks that are already covered by rules for conversions. But its not complicated at all . old oblits or old tanks dont come under the conversion rules , because they are totally GW made and totally legal and GW tells us to use them the way they are . right now there are 2 things you cant do with chaos inthe 5th ed. cant use small bases for old terminator models and use jump packs to represent wings[sucks to anyone who had a NL demon prince]. Where is the ruling preventing old terminators from using old bases? I use old terminators on old bases and no one has ever complained. I have every FAQ and don't recall seeing that anywhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1794623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Where is the ruling preventing old terminators from using old bases? I use old terminators on old bases and no one has ever complained. I have every FAQ and don't recall seeing that anywhere. well the FAQ was made when the loyalist came out . it was also the same time GW started to sell big termi bases en mass. [what I bless them for because I had to rebase 90 terminators]. Â And it appears to be very clear that GW has said nothing about what to do in the case of older models. Which it pretty obvious since they wouldn't care to much about their older stuff, just the newer stuff. QFT . It is rather sad , but GW is like that . One side you can get 0/17 for your orks being armed with bolters and not shootas and on the other hand someone can be playing with old rhinos and there is nothing you can do about it . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1795728 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Where is the ruling preventing old terminators from using old bases? I use old terminators on old bases and no one has ever complained. I have every FAQ and don't recall seeing that anywhere. well the FAQ was made when the loyalist came out . it was also the same time GW started to sell big termi bases en mass. [what I bless them for because I had to rebase 90 terminators]. Could you provide a link to that document, as it does not appear to be in any official FAQ on the GW website. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1795863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 it was out when the termi came out . check I doubt its on their web anymore , but there should be GT ruling from the year the loyalist termis came out on the web or tournament packs . the FAQ should be there . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796132 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 it was out when the termi came out . check I doubt its on their web anymore , but there should be GT ruling from the year the loyalist termis came out on the web or tournament packs . the FAQ should be there . Oh, its a GT ruling and therefore unofficial for those of us not playing in GTs. Great, thanks. If a FAQ isn't still on the website, it doesn't apply anyway. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 no it was an offical GW ruling , not only for GT . I will check the GW site [even if I hate to do it] . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 no it was an offical GW ruling , not only for GT . I will check the GW site [even if I hate to do it] . I have looked, if it was an official ruling, its not still there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 looks like all the faqs from 4th ed are gone . I remember the whole base thing was dont in 2005 and it was an official thing otherwise we would never use it . Â also the site horror to navigate it took me 15 min to find where the faqs are ;/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Yeah, the 4th edition FAQs have been replaced. That rule no longer exists. Â Thanks for looking, but I'm glad you didn't find it. I have no desire to rebase 20 or so old terminators. Â And yes, the GW website is a real pain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 ehh the problem is that , if some of the 4th ed FAQs are gone I have no idea how some of the SW or sob stuff works right now ;/ . that sucks hard . have to informe people about it . Â oh god the IG there is no FAQ for IG :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...019&start=2 Â IG Faq is still there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 thats the 5th ed stuff , but thanks . some people are going to be very sore with their moratars and stuff . but on the other hand hellfire shells are back the way they worked before [so can chase an unit off the table] . god that sucks , but I think we are going to much offtopic . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153724-obliterators-base/#findComment-1796388 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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