Opinion on Chimera Weapons?

[Tauren]

Was curious... I am planning to field a chimera and I am kinda wanting to convert a heavy bolter turret with some additional bits I am bidding on. Was curious if its worth the effort by asking this question:

 

What are the differences in usage of a multi-laser versus a heavy bolter?

[Inquisitor Fox]

Quick version (since I play Guard also) is the multilaser is higher strength (6 vs 5), but lower AP (6 vs 4). So.. it works better against armored targets (vehicles, terminators, marines) but worse against weak armored foes (guardsmen, tau, eldar, etc).

 

Rangewise and rate of fire they're the same.

 

Personally I use multi-laser/heavy bolter/pintle mounted heavy stubber (with IG codex or Inducted forces). It's personal preference though really.

[Tauren]

Hmmm... it's to bad I can't mount my IST's in the chimera you show. I would love to buy up a pintle mounted heavy stubber but I suppose the heavy bolter will have to do. Guess I will just stick with the multi-laser I am given instead of converting one then.

[Auedawen]

Multi-laser has a higher strength, making it more effective against enemy light vehicles (for which an HB/ML equipped Chimaera is aptly suited), but also more useful against hardened targets (2+ and 3+ save models) or higher toughness models, like monstrous creatures (excluding the Wraithlord...it's not really worth bothering to fire against that).

 

However, the Heavy bolter is much more capable at dropping 4+ and 5+ save models. The 5+ save guys aren't a big deal, though 4+ save models are pretty ubiquitous, so having the little extra AP4 weaponry can be nice. However, Grey Knights have access to Psycannons, which are vastly superior to Heavy bolters. Not only that, but you don't really want to waste a squad of GK shooting at some light vehicles, as they absolutely murder infantry.

 

Thus, in my opinion, it's best to keep the GK focused on infantry and find other means for light vehicles (your Land Raiders or Hellfire Dreads should be taking down the heavy armor). Thus, Chimaera's are left to deal with the light vehicles, and they do a damn fine job of it.

 

This is all assuming you use a Grey Knight force. Sisters also fill the role of anti-infantry killers to the letter, so again i don't think it's necessary to equip any chimaera's with 2 HB's (and then again, why buy IST's when you have sisters in the first place??)

 

Hope this helped some.

 

[Edit] Looks like we all posted at the same time. But while we're on the topic, you may want to consider inducting some Armored Fist Squads. I've proxied them before while using a Radical force, and by inducting the as heck's you can attach the pintle heavy stubber, but also equip your infantry with an AutoCannon heavy weapon, which may be fired from the Chimaera's top hatch. Talk about some bloody impressive anti-light vehicle firepower, or infantry for that matter. The problem of course will be the quality of the troops necessary for the as heck squad, mere guardsmen so you lose BS4, Hellguns, and the 4+ save, though if i'm not mistaken the squad should come in a little bit cheaper regardless.

[Eddie Orlock]

I've had fun with the ForgeWorld AutoCannon turrets, but I'd recomend the Multi-Laser over the Heavy Bolter, the extra pip of strength is of more utility than the non-marine smiting AP. Under the current rules I'd load out as follows, Turret Multi-Laser with Pintle Stubber and Hull Flamer in a fairly agressive attack role.

[Tauren]

Well right now I plan to have a unit of 8 IST's with 2 plasma guns, in a chimera with a ML, Heavy Bolter, Pintle Mounted Storm Bolter, Smoke, EA. Makes for a nice mobile fire-base and gives me some more bodies. At a modest price of 203 pts. I am still deciding on which way I want to go first, pure daemon-hunters (which I can do right now...) or grabbing some sisters to start. I think pure daemonhunters will be where I start though and having 2 transports with IST's (1 with meltas in a rhino, 1 with plasma's in a chimera) makes for a nice little boost behind my grey knight unit and Hero. A fire-base inquisitor and there we go. I also think I am gonna fool around with a orbital strike for kicks but I can always drop that for more IST's.

[Warp Angel]

I've had fun with the ForgeWorld AutoCannon turrets, but I'd recomend the Multi-Laser over the Heavy Bolter, the extra pip of strength is of more utility than the non-marine smiting AP. Under the current rules I'd load out as follows, Turret Multi-Laser with Pintle Stubber and Hull Flamer in a fairly agressive attack role.

 

Add in another vote for the ML/PS/HF config if you're playing non-Sisters. Waaaaaay too useful for digging things out of cover and wiping out advancing hordes. while providing MOBILE fire support.

 

If you're going to change anything, go with an AC turret since it enhances both anti-vehicle AND matches the HB's AP.

 

With it's weak side armor and meh front armor, there's little reason to turn it into a pillbox and every reason to zoom it around. In those cases, you're only firing one weapon anyway.

[Inquisitor Fox]

One reason NOT to go with the Autocannon turret, is because it messes with the complimentary ranges: Multi-lasers, Heavy Bolters, and Pintle-mounted Heavy Stubbers all have a 36" range. I've found having all your weapons with the same range is just really really nice. It acts like a somewhat mobile, armored (front armor of 12!) anti-infantry fire support team. It's fire support is invaluable in my experience, and often underestimated as a threat.

[Tauren]

True but you aren't allowed a pintle-stubber in the daemonhunter version (older codex). Sadly or I would. Plus I'd rather not have to buy new models for another unit I would need just to gain an extra gun you know. Although I thought you could fire the pintle-mounted weapon and 1 main weapon. IE the pintle and multi-laser/heavy bolter if moving at combat speed. Plus nothing is stopping me from using the plasma guns on my imperial storm-troopers which are pretty nasty to tear up the more heavily armored troopers.

[Aidoneus]

I think the ML vs. HB issue has been aptly addressed. Let me just add that, as a DH player, I have one of each turret for my two chimeras (not two turrets per chimera, but two turrets total, one of which is ML and the other HB).

 

I will say that you also need to consider the Heavy Flamer, both for turret and hull positions. First off, don't take 2 H Flamers, as you're not a threat at all outside of 7 inches, and that gives the enemy lots more options to deal with you. However, since you can no longer move and fire two S5+ weapons, the ML+HB or HB+HB chimeras aren't quite as handy as they once were. To fire at full effect, you need to stay still, which you'll hardly ever want to do. Thus, you'll be wasting one gun per turn most of the time.

 

What the HF gives you is a powerful anti-infantry kick at close range, which can be used in conjunction with tank shocking to beautiful effect.

 

Now, between turret-mounting or hull-mounting the HF. Turret mounting gives you a 360-degree arc of fire, which can be extremely useful when you get so close to the enemy, especially if you're tank-shocking and they move off to the side. The hull-mount is a little further forward, giving you just a bit more reach, which is also very handy, as you'll only be able to move 6" before firing it. The tie-breaker, in my mind, is that by hull-mounting your HF, you can buy a turret-mounted ML, since the ML cannot itself be hull-mounted.

 

With a ML+HF chimera, you can steadily move forward 6" a turn, popping off 3 S6 shots at light armour or heavy infantry each turn, until eventually you get close enough to flame a unit to death from close range.

 

The other nice thing about this settup is that it lets you play a psychological game. People tend to be really afraid of heavy flamers, and for good reason, so they will want to do everything they can to kill that Chimera before it reaches their lines. That means that your opponent will be focus-firing on a (relatively) unimportant transport, drawing fire away from the rest of your forces.

 

Just a few things to think about.

[Inquisitor Fox]

As an interesting quirk, you cannot buy the pintle heavy stubbers for your Inquisitorial Storm Trooper Chimeras, but if you induct Armored Fist squads, you can take their Chimeras from the Imperial Guard Codex with applicable options.

 

Personally I was planning on Forgeworld Repressors for my Inquisitorial Storm Troopers for this reason, but the Rhino is another option. *Shrugs* Personal preference again.

 

The points for the heavy flamer are all good ones. I don't tend to use them because more of my army is designed to stay back at range, but it's a good option I may have to think about myself too ;) I kind of forget things sometimes and just assume there's a heavy bolter.

[Tauren]

Hmmm... Interesting... Any opinions on the pintle mounted storm-bolter if I go with the inquisition version? Worth it? Extra Fire-power?

 

Interesting thoughts on the heavy flamer, I might very well consider it... Hmmm... You are still allowed to fire 2 weapons from the open back hatch if you wanted correct? Can always pop the hatch and spray them with plasma also.

 

Correction, the chimera has 2 fire-points... *cough*

[Eddie Orlock]

To my knowledge chimera have only ever allowed one weapon to be fired from the hatch.

 

I've had some success with dual flamer Chimera, but only with a full smoke and extra plate package, as a special weapon delivery system. In an Inquisition army an Inducted command section can take four ordinary flamers for somthing like 70 points, cheeper than you can do with dominions or purgators. Depending on how aggressive you're playing, such a unit may well have no incentive to not get stuck in fast, thus there's no need for ranged guns to slow down its apporach move. The tanks flamers are there to assist the unit when it's been delivered. Flamers don't work as well as other weapons do for Drop Troops as they're very suseptable to scatter and careful placement.

 

I suppose a junior Inquisitor with a braiser and/or combiflamer and a retinue of flamer toting warrior henchmen would cost and play about the same with the additional possibility of acolytes for even more easy-bake fun.

[King Tiger]

I've had fun with the ForgeWorld AutoCannon turrets

same here, and don't forget the twin-linked heavy bolter turrets, so far only the single has been mentioned I think

[Captain Malachi]

It's the heavy bolter for me, but that's mostly because I'm more comfortable with them (long time marine player) and I've never used a multi-laser before. Also, AP6 really puts me off them, I don't think I've ever had a weapon in any of my armies that had worse than AP5.

[Aidoneus]

Also, AP6 really puts me off them, I don't think I've ever had a weapon in any of my armies that had worse than AP5.

Frag missiles? Lasguns (for example, on the chimera)? I'll grant you, AP6 weapons are few and far between, but they're out there. And keep in mind, against anything with a 2+ save, a 3+ save, or an invulnerable save instead of an armour save, the AP6 is just as good as AP4. On the other hand, against anything T4, 5, 6, or 7, or against vehicle armour 10, 11, or 12, the S6 is better than the S5. In other words, the extra strength is more commonly advantageous than the AP4.

 

Eddie Orlock: I admit, I don't really think about using chimeras as special weapons deliverers. Sounds fun! Even so, I'd recommend one Heavy Flamer and one other gun. The thing is, if you move at all, you can only ever fire one heavy flamer, and honestly how often do you expect to start your turn in range with both heavy flamers? Taking 1 HF is good for that role, and then you can take another weapon just in case you want to sit back and shoot, or if there's something slightly farther away that really needs to die (like a lone speeder, or one last biker).

[Eddie Orlock]

Dual flamers provides the unit with a level of redundancy, one may be lost to a damage result, but the other will be intact. Actually I've been able to 'double flame' a fair number of times, often as a counter punch against whatever short ranged counters my opponent pulls against the command section. A sort of 'counter, counter punch' if you will. Given how often the vehicle winds up in close order with the enemy, the double flamer proves suprisingly useful. Still, I wouldn't take more than one armed this way in an army.

[Charred Heretic]

Aido had some very well considered thoughts.

And I do agree with him in thinking 1 Heavy flamer is enough.

I never expect enemies to do me the courtesy of stepping into my crosshairs.

 

I like teh notion of baiting the enemy with the Heavy Flamer to waste his resources dousing it.

But unfortunatley, the Chimera is rather expensive bait, which is further plagued by its

"bolterable" AV10 side armor, which becomes acessable if the HF wants to get into range.

 

I think the Turret Heavy Flamer works the bluff best.

 

Or maybe use it to deliver some ISTs with their flamers, and then wait for the

ISTs to get killed in CC (of course), then shock, rack, and flame the enemy.

 

Some good, creative uses are mentioned here.

[Tauren]

still waiting to hear about the option for a pintle mounted storm-bolter.

[Inquisitor Fox]

In my opinion, it's definately not as useful as the heavy stubber :( 24" of range and only 2 shots as opposed to 36 inches of range and 3 shots. Granted bolter rounds are better than stubber rounds, but really it's the range issue for me. I think for 2 points more the stubber is a steal ^_^

 

Now with just pure Daemon Hunters or Witch Hunters though.. hmm... the primary purpose of a transport is ferrying troops. The reason to take a Chimera instead of a Rhino is the guns (the multi-laser, heavy bolter, and the passenger operated lasguns that can fire at a seperate unit from the main chimera as far as I'm aware). Adding a pintle-mounted stormbolter is definately useful if you plan on using the Chimera to zap infantry. It's a nice upgrade, whether it's worth it's points is a matter of taste. I always take pintle-mounted weapons on my vehicles.. yes.. even my Witch Hunters Land Raider transport has a pintle-mounted storm bolter. Every bit of dakka is another shot that potentially could hit something :) That's what works for me though.

[march10k]

I use two setups...and both involve the multilaser (reason has been discussed to death). For offensive units, I'll take the hull heavy flamer, since I'm fairly likely to be close enough to use it, right? And if I do, I'll certainly be able to get more hits than I do with a heavy bolter.

 

For fire support units, I'll take the heavy bolter. And an autocannon for the squad. That gives me three heavy weapons for the price of two squads, in addition to allowing the squad to relocate (run away or sieze an objective late in the game). Of course, range is an issue, so I'll take the inferior HB over the HF in this case, since I'd prefer that the enemy never get into flamer range.

[Auedawen]

Not a fan of the Pintle Storm bolter. Really, it's rather unnecessary...and expensive for the results. The storm bolter is also held back by the BS3 of the Chimaera, so it's even less valuable. And, as other have said, range is rather crucial. 24" compared to 36" is huge on a 4'x6' table, I say leave the Stormbolters to the grey knights, make the Chimaera as unique (see, useful) as possible in your army.

[benmothershaw]

Well as I posted on another forum, duel Hevy flamers are pretty reasonable.

 

Hide behind a LR in a assault vehicle stance. And then move 12" fire smoke launchers. Then next turn if the unit ran away then they are smart because if they try and kill it, they'll fail against our SL and assaults hit on 6+! Therefore next turn you can stand still, fire both flamers then use the firepoints to fire duel meltaguns/Plasmaguns etc.

 

You can also use the IA2 Rules which makes this a very cheap option. Please bare in mind their not official rules.

[Apogee]

I use a HB on the hull, and a HF on the turret. I use the storm bolter too, since it can fire on the move. I advanced 6'' every turn, firing as I go. If the chim makes it tot he target, then I flame away - great thing to have, since BS3 and all (which makes no sense, aren't these storm troopers?)

 

I use to run 2 HBs in 4th, but that doesn't work anymore due to the move and fire rules. I leave the AT work to my Exorcists. Basically, the Chimera flamer says "Stay away from me or it's gonna hurt" - helps keep the nasties at bay, particularly things with powerfists or clawz.

[Captain Malachi]

Basically, the Chimera flamer says "Stay away from me or it's gonna hurt" - helps keep the nasties at bay, particularly things with powerfists or clawz.

Actually that's a very good point, it may not actually pay for itself directly, but if it keeps the tank alive another turn, and it subsequesntly kills another model with one of the other weapons, it has in fact payed for itself.