Melta bombs and Monoliths

[Apothecary Daxam]

I've been wondering about something rather useful.

 

A Monolith's "Living Metal" rule discounts any Melta or Lance rule on a weapon, so melta guns and the like are pretty useless.

However, I noted something interesting. The melta bomb entry in the Rule book lists it as the following:

"Melta Bomb (grenade): STR 8 + 2D6".

 

It doesn't include the melta rule, so perhaps melta bomb can be used on the monolith for, say, destroying it in one hit.

Just wondering. If this has already been addressed somewhere else or has been noted in Errata somewhere please tell.

[Divergent Reality]

the necron codex states it pretty plainly, you only roll one d6 plus strength for armor penetration against the monolith.

[Melissia]

Indeed. This includes even weapons which are not melta, such as the Eviscerator.

[Apothecary Daxam]

Okay, thanks for clarifying.

Any suggestions for dealing with monoliths?

[BoxANT]

Demolisher cannon.

 

DCCW.

 

ignore it?

[Ravinella]

I've had a lot of luck with a LC Predator with LC sponsons, or a Terminus Ultra in Apoc games

[DemonicSarge55]

Kill Warriors.

[Toogeloo]

Stick a banana in it's tail pipe.

[==Me==]

Kill Warriors.

 

Truth, go for phase out and you won't have to worry about Monoliths.

[Somar]

have lysander beat the crap outta it

[Brother SRM]

I largely ignore it. A phaseout is easier to attain than killing that monster.

However, last time I played against Necrons, I got a lucky lascannon shot in from my Venerable Dreadnought that blew the thing to kingdom come.

 

You can get lucky, but unless you have a battery of lascannons, a Dreadnought to go krump it in CC, or something apocalyptic, ignore the damn thing and it's ringpop laser.

[nighthawks]

the necron codex states it pretty plainly, you only roll one d6 plus strength for armor penetration against the monolith.

while this is the accepted answer, I personally feel that it is wrong. the 8+2D6 of the meltabomb is the armour penetration of the weapon. it is not an additional die, it has no listed S value, it does not appear, then, to be covered by the living metal rule. other types of things - such as chainfists, eviscerators, etc... that allow an additional die to be rolled in armour pen above what would normally be allowed (1) are affected by living metal.

 

but don't listen to me, I've not won this argument a bunch of times now. (I haven't lost, because this comes down to group consensus, not what can be found to be right or wrong given the RAW loophole for grenades vs. Monoliths.)

 

as for killing the monolith - go for phase out. about the only way to kill a C'Tan lord, too (other than random, lucky small arms fire). and watch out for flayed ones - I hate flayed ones!

[SeattleDV8]

Agreed Nighthawk, but then again Necrons need a TOTAL overhaul. their rules are the biggest mish-mash and twisted mess in all of 40K.

There is no internal logic or sense to them any more.

[Apothecary Daxam]

Thanks for all the feedback!

[Dourine]

Okay, i'll give you several reasons why melta bombs get the 2d6+8.

 

First, a melta-bomb is not a weapon, it's wargear with it's own special rules.

Next, It does not have a strength value, so you can't "roll 1d6 and add strength"

Next, It does not have the melta special rule, just the word melta in it's name.

 

So, the entry for living metal specifically adresses weapons, not "grenades" or "wargear items".

[Disistablishmentarianism]

the necron codex states it pretty plainly, you only roll one d6 plus strength for armor penetration against the monolith.

while this is the accepted answer, I personally feel that it is wrong. the 8+2D6 of the meltabomb is the armour penetration of the weapon. it is not an additional die, it has no listed S value, it does not appear, then, to be covered by the living metal rule. other types of things - such as chainfists, eviscerators, etc... that allow an additional die to be rolled in armour pen above what would normally be allowed (1) are affected by living metal.

 

but don't listen to me, I've not won this argument a bunch of times now. (I haven't lost, because this comes down to group consensus, not what can be found to be right or wrong given the RAW loophole for grenades vs. Monoliths.)

 

as for killing the monolith - go for phase out. about the only way to kill a C'Tan lord, too (other than random, lucky small arms fire). and watch out for flayed ones - I hate flayed ones!

It is an additional dice, normally only rolling 2d6 plus strength for penetration. 2d6 suggests to me that you're given another dice and the living metal special rule states that you can only ever roll s+d6, no additional dice.

The value 8+2d6 for the melta bombs penetration, the 8 in place of strength and for ease of use can simply be called it's strength

Argue all you want that it isn't an additional die, the fact still remains that you can only ever roll s+d6 against the monolith.

Yeah, achieving phase out is much easier than taking out these beasties. Although perceived threat tells us that we HAVE to kill that nightbringer/monolith/deceiver otherwise I will lose is a little hard to ignore especially when the only other real target on the battlefield are necron warriors or so and they're only effective at 1-12" range and not great in assault due to low initiative.

[Chaplian Silkor]

In 4th ed I would hit it with a powerfist or thunder hammer(which worked 3 times in like 5 games I played against monoliths), but in 5th it is better to leave them alone unless you've got a LR or something like that in your list....

[maniclurker]

...armour penetration of the weapon. it is not an additional die, it has no listed S value, it does...

 

Well, if the entry says S + d6, and a melta bomb doesn't have a S, it would seem you just RAW'd yourself out of the possibility to even glance the monolith, as you'll only get 2d6 without the extra 8.

 

But, then again, you're completely wrong. It plainly says in the entry, that in practice, you'll only ever get a D6 for penetration. The only exclusion to this, as far as I know, is ordnance. They get to roll 2D6 and pick highest. However, that's not really an exclusion, as the ordinance is still only getting ST+d6.

 

FAQ, it's where it's at.

[Apothecary Daxam]

Just out of interest, does the Monlith ignore the Rending rules for penetration?

I mean, it's a long shot, but it's definitly there in a pinch. A bit like lascannons.

[Hexx]

Rending is a "bonus" die, the Monolith will ignore it.

[Br.Pat]

I believe that Vindicators are clightly better at destroying vehicles than a Godhammer LR. I always include atleast one of each in my army (actually 2 Vindicators and a LR) ... and the Vindicators do as much damage, if not more.

 

You are able to roll two dice for the AP and pick the highest one due to the Ordnance rule (I'm pretty sure this can still be used on the Monolith). The only disadvantage it has is it's short range, and it has quite a reasonable chance to scatter.

 

Then again the LR anti-tank capability has improved in 5th due to PMS. 6" move plus 2 TW las shots against two different targets ftw.

 

Both are beasts on the battlefield, but I believe that the Vindicator comes out on top in regards to damage potential. Then again, a LR can survive for longer, thus dishing out more hurt.

[Kadaeux]

On the discussion of what works vs Monoliths it seems according to the Necron FAQ that Powerfists and such are no good either! (If i'm reading it right.)

 

"When attacking the Monolith, extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing don't count ANY bonus penetration of ANY sort against the Monolith."

 

It later expressely says...

 

"The ONLY exception is the Vindicare Assassins Turbo Penetrator round."

 

(Because essentially a Powerfist is doubling your strength score against armour, but I could be wrong.)

[Souchan]

The Necron FAQ actually has a specific question saying that all S doubling weapons still work. Are you using an older one perhaps?

[Kadaeux]

The Necron FAQ actually has a specific question saying that all S doubling weapons still work. Are you using an older one perhaps?

 

4.01

[Souchan]

The Necron FAQ actually has a specific question saying that all S doubling weapons still work. Are you using an older one perhaps?

 

4.01

 

 

Might I then advise downloading the 5th edition one B)