Land Raiders

[Ragnars Claw]

What are people's thoughts on Land Raiders?

 

I'm tempted to put a Land Raider Redeemer in the army and fill it either with Blood Claws or Wolf Guard in terminator armour but in the past i've always been put off my how easy they were to total. I'm being assured that they are more survivable nowadays.

 

Anyone else share that view?

[LPetersson]

I love them and always bring one (Two if the game is 1500+ and in my upcoming 3k pts game I'll bring 3).

 

I've only used them against Eldar and Necrons and they fared resonably well.

I fully intend to keep using them, and will be getting one for yuletide as a present for myself ;)

[Wolf89]

Depends on the rest of your list. As for me, I don't take it that often and if I do, it's rarely more than one.

 

I like using my heavy slots for vindicators, they're 2 for the price of one land raider, can cause so much more damage, and aren't as high priority as a land raider (especially LoS purposes and fitting around terrain).

 

Transporting terminators... haven't found the best transport for SW terminators besides drop pods... first turn, in the face of the enemy (granted you can always drop them on your lines if you wanted) and with all that firepower... mmmm...

 

Also the only thing I transport in my Land Raiders is a nice big Bloodclaw squad with some juicy HQ's and wolves. Only reason to have the assault ramp.

[Ullr Direfang]

i enjoy bringing my LC landraider every now and then, in many games i get now a days, the newer guys get tired of playing against it real quick, they are working on building up armies so do have a great deal of AT. but i play to get a crusader/redeemer and magnetize the weapons for the option of both, but would rarely run both.... maybe if i really didn't like the guy...

[LPetersson]

the newer guys get tired of playing against it real quick, they are working on building up armies so do have a great deal of AT.

 

Assuming you meant don't, then that's a good point. If you're playing against a guy whom you know don't have much AT then that's just mean.

Fortunately I don't ^_^

 

And the usefulness of LRs obviousy depend on the composition of your army.

My LRs are full of BCs chomping at the bit to get into battle and get bloodied, and I'd rather pack 15 of those into an LR than 10(?) into a DP...

[Wolf89]

Transport capacity of a drop pod is 12, and if you play with drop pods, your troops should be almost entirely grey hunters, unless you have other ideas...

[Grey Mage]

I believe he meant his opponents were busy getting more anti-tank fire to equal out against his landraider... because now they dont.

 

In any case I have to agree with those who have said that transporting terminators in one just doesnt seem the most viable option. We have the ability to drop pod ours in... and Id rather do that, for cheaper. What I will say though is that its pretty cool to be able to *in a regular LR or Redeemer* put a full Grey Hunter CC squad in their, with a terminator Wolf Gaurd or IC and pop out on the enemy. However... after some discussion I went with a Land Raider Crusader, and use it religiously with my bloodclaws in anything over 1500pts, and occaisionally in smaller games.

 

The discussion that helped me decide can be found Here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=147132

 

I recommend looking it over.

[saphius]

Some good rules to live by - LR's are better when your army has lots of AV or speed, or both. You get a moderate sized BC squad in one (11 is perfect with a flamer and 3 fists) and a Cheap HQ ( WP possibly).

Reason being, assuming they don't get lucky and blow it up early, they either focus fire on it to bring it down, while the rest of your army get to move where it please's. Or, they ignore it and take a very nasty charge wherever you choose in the heart of there army, and get shot to crap. I'd take the Redeemer or the crusader. Usually the later.

 

The only drawback to a Landraider is it can be a point sink, the less points your playing the more your army hinges on the tank making it to turn two or three. So a lucky shot can be hard to overcome. Against an army with good AT my suggestions are always, pop smoke early, get there quickly, and when you get there hit them with everything at once.

 

Against something like Nyds or Orks, you sit back, pour shots, enjoy AV 14, and use your speed to get the charges where you want them.

[WolfLordLars]

My general rule is no Land Raider under 2000pts. Just cant justify it with everything else that you should take.

 

My other is that I first find a use for a Crusader, then a 'standard' Land Raider. The variants just dont seem worth the points to me. Crusader is BC transport, and a regular one is a glorified predator. I prefer to spend the points on a TLLC/ML dread rather than a Land Raider.

 

But, thats me. While I prefer tanks, and the Land Raider is one of the best, I dont think this edition is very kind to them and I can usually do more with troops.

[Wena]

I always use 2 and love them. Last week a game against BA I had two (regular LR and a LRC) and had 2 Furiosos chopping at the LRC almost the whole game and it didnt die until the end (after dropping of its cargo and killing some stuff) and the second one dropped it's cargo of Termies and survived the whole game shooting stuff up.

 

I love em...

 

Wena

[TAVAAR]

I take them depending on what I'm trying to do. Land Raiders (w/LC's) are twice as expensive as two Predator Annihilators (which have roughly twice the firepower), so I never take them.

 

Crusaders can be handy if you have a HQ with bodyguard that is just dying for some action just for the model transport capability and assault ramps, but that is a HUGE point sink regardless of pt. totals up to 3k...or even more.

 

I've ran the Redeemer recently to test it out and it did well in most games, but again it had an HQ with bodyguard. It was very effective because of the assault ramps and PotMS flamers of death, but in the end the damage done was not even close to that units point cost for me...

 

Yes Land Raiders are more survivable now than before, yes they are a good (and usually survivable) fire magnet which is handy. For us though, the points are better spent on other things, even if it takes more force org slots to do it. The big problem is that while they are more survivable because of the damage chart, there are more things now that pose a serious threat to it.

 

Nothing says "Eat it" to a Land Raider like, the now so popular, meltagun/multi-melta coming from land speeders/drop pods/tacs in rhinos (or any armies equivalent there of).

 

My personal favorite for dealing with LR's, though, is the good ol' SW scouts with MB and Meltagun OBEL.

[Ullr Direfang]

oooppps.... :) i did mean "don't", i don't know what happened.... brain must of been going to fast.

 

there is one new guy who saw me use mine when he was just starting and got two.... he has a hard time getting games in 'cause non of the new guys want to play him with 2 land raiders and a drop pod at 1250 points. i offered to play him with my guard (@1250 points) though, ( also offered the 3 LCs to another guard player who faces him a lot), lets just say he he is trying to get more then 22 models in an army now.

[pufnstuf]

Ive been testing a 3 LR list at 1500, worked great so far. used to run a single one with 2 vindi's. Might try 2 and 2 rhino squads. meet in the middle >.< As said before, they are great transports for BC's with an IC

[Vash113]

I love Land Raiders, they are so much fun and they are such amazing fire magnets. Plus whats not to love about a 15 Man Blood Claw pack with attatched Wolf Guard Pack Leader all crammed into a Land Raider Crusader? Just the sight of sixteen crazy wolves charging out of a single transport is so wonderful for scaring the bejeesus out of opponents.

[Wolf89]

Ive been testing a 3 LR list at 1500, worked great so far. used to run a single one with 2 vindi's. Might try 2 and 2 rhino squads. meet in the middle >.< As said before, they are great transports for BC's with an IC

 

That's just not funny, and this is coming from a guy who regularly plays 2-3 vindicators... 3 LR in 1500 is the craziest thing I've ever heard of, every 500 points, you're taking a LR, half of those 500 are spent, ON the LR... so you've got 250 on each module for HQ and troops... Hard to imagine that list works for you, either that or your opponents haven't ever seen a meltagun, or a monstrous creature... :wacko: Trust me, you should try something different, 3 LR in 1500, heck, my throat closes up at the though of 1 LR at 1000-1500.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

yeah. im taking my redeemer out of anything under 1500. 3 is too much. tactics may be needed at your gaming group... and i dont mean your opponents on that note

[WolfLordLars]

I would LOVE to play someone who brings 2-3 LR's in 1500-2000pt games. I could probably get another game in as that one would last all of an hour.

 

Point sinks or decoys.

[littlbitz]

I used to regularly run a "Raider rush" list when 4th first hit the shelves, then the Rending assault cannons happened and I switched to pods.

 

With 5th ed. though, I think the Land Raider has improved greatly, and have been pondering over bringing back my Raider Rush.

 

I'm thinking 3 Land Raiders (one of each, redeemer, crusader and standard) with packs and Battle leaders in each. Should work pretty well in most missions.

[Wolf89]

I'm thinking 3 Land Raiders (one of each, redeemer, crusader and standard) with packs and Battle leaders in each. Should work pretty well in most missions.

Should work pretty well for your opponent you mean right? :)

 

I have yet to face 3 LR's in 1500, I've faced 2 in 1750 and I can tell you, they didn't last but 2 turns...

[Grey Mage]

Ill play One, and only one, in 1500. At 2000 Ill throw in a terminator squad.... and at 2250 Id think of taking 2 landraiders with a squad of wolf gaurd terminators.

 

There are just alot better options to take. For a pair of twin linked lascannons and heavy bolters for instance Ill get more firepower from a pair of predator annihilators. For the bolter dakka of a crusader Ill take wolf gaurd... or even a squad of grey hunters properly placed.

[pufnstuf]

Ive been testing a 3 LR list at 1500, worked great so far. used to run a single one with 2 vindi's. Might try 2 and 2 rhino squads. meet in the middle >.< As said before, they are great transports for BC's with an IC

 

That's just not funny, and this is coming from a guy who regularly plays 2-3 vindicators... 3 LR in 1500 is the craziest thing I've ever heard of, every 500 points, you're taking a LR, half of those 500 are spent, ON the LR... so you've got 250 on each module for HQ and troops... Hard to imagine that list works for you, either that or your opponents haven't ever seen a meltagun, or a monstrous creature... ;) Trust me, you should try something different, 3 LR in 1500, heck, my throat closes up at the though of 1 LR at 1000-1500.

 

Try it, 3 Lr's is not easy to win with. I am also a deathwing player (don't use lr's in that, it has vindi's and dreads). I tend to play smaller elite armies, where I have to be careful with everything to win. Got tired of winning with larger lists, its much easier. Playing smaller lists with small model counts means anything you lose hurts, and hurts alot. To me that is worthwhile because it provides a great challenge that I need. Melta's are the first things I target, or guage the halve distance very well so that they are just outside of it when shooting.

 

this is my list

 

HQ 294

Rune Priest – Frost Blade, Runic Armor, Runic Charms, SS, Chooser of the slain, Wolf Tooth Knecklace, Frags = 146

WolfLord – Frost Blade, Runic Charms, SS, Runic Armor, Wolf Tooth Knecklace, Frags, Kraks = 148

 

Troops = 446

 

Wolf Squad Alpha = 158

7 Grey Hunters – PW & BP, PF & BP, 4 Bolters, meltagun = 176

 

Blood Squad Alpha = 144

8 Blood Claws – 2 PF, 1 Meltagun

 

Blood Squad Beta = 144

8 Blood Claws – 2 PF, 1 Meltagun

 

Heavy = 750

Land Raider Redeemer - MM = 250

Land Raider Redeemer - MM = 250

Land Raider – MM = 260

 

total = 1500

 

I've run 3 lr zerker lists, 3 lr gk lists as well, and SW are by far the most fun. it involves alot of charging out, killing, then running back into the lr and moving on. KP denial is heavy, by throwing a remaining BC or 2 into a LR to sit. For those straight out knocking it, you must have not played against good opponents. Sure, some ways its easy to kill (say 2 podding MM dreads that land next to it, should be bye bye raiders, but thats a risk you take no?). Since most of you say they die quick and easy, that is exactly why I play it, its hard to win with. Gone are the days when I played hard as nails lists, they required alot less thought to win with. If GK and Deathwing players main builds ARE triple LR's, it has to be successful somewhat.

 

BUT that being said, I do use variant lists as well, the triple lr is just a fun one. Instead of taking up this thread with lists i'll link my other two in a second (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=154453). Most success I have had is a single redeemer and 2 vindi's in heavy support. As said before, they are great for BC transporting, running out 11, 3 with fists is great. Try to position them to always have a 4+ cover, it helps alot for thier surviveability. Depending on their varient, decide thier roll and stick to it. transporting bc? get them into battle, then use it to provide back up / block los for when the cc combat is over. Don't want them to win, only to be shot up the turn after.

 

 

@ The_Betrayed_Spacewolf - that an insult? I don't know tactics? try playing 3 lr's, very hard to win with. Specially on objective grabbing missions when you usually have to get within melta range of your opponents to score, and your scoring unit # is already low. It requires alot of tactics actually.

[hendrik]

please keep, it calm brothers, we don't want to make max take away our ale do we ;)

 

i know that some people think landraiders are just powerplay but like any other list there is always an anti list for it, imagine 2 lascannon longfangs packs in a tllc razorback for example=)

[Wolf89]

please keep, it calm brothers, we don't want to make max take away our ale do we -_-

 

i know that some people think landraiders are just powerplay but like any other list there is always an anti list for it, imagine 2 lascannon longfangs packs in a tllc razorback for example=)

 

It's a point sink of unfathomable proportions. ^_^ Long fangs just aren't what they used to be.

 

@pufnstuf

 

Not to be mean in any ways, but 3LR lists are a crap shoot, dice roll well for you and you'll win, dice roll well for your opponent you loose. That's not really tactical at all, it has too much luck involved for my taste, and I want the option, in a tournament especially, to look at other's armies and think to myself "ok this is how I'm going to beat this list, I'll have to do this, this, and that", not "oh crap, well lets hope the dice gods are on my side for sure... or I'm toast".

 

Somewhat hard to stay out of the melta range when you're playing 2 flamer template LR's...

 

I can see it for daemonhunters, I've used 3LR lists for DH's, but especially with sanc bubble, it gets boring and especially when playing daemons it's just something your opponent will never want to face you again sort of thing.

 

If you play around here, every list has anti-tank everywhere mainly in the form of an MC, melta, or equal device to take care of LR spamming. Not just to go against LR's in general, but monoliths, and just in general other vehicles. People around here play the balanced lists to face all comers. Even though comp isn't a common aspect of the tournaments around here, people try their best to keep in line with it.

[littlbitz]

I think in the current enviornment, it can still be viable.

 

With the new concealment rules, and smoke, and lets not forget the new Vehicle damage chart. Land Raiders become much more viable.

 

Also there are lots of tactics that can be used, deployment is a huge factor, and lets not forget reserves if it gets too hot. A bit random yes, but it is an option if you don't have first turn, cover is limited, and/or you are facing a ton of AT.

 

I noticed at the recent Baltimore GT, that Hordes seemed to be the flavor of the day. Deamons and Orks running rampant all over the place. I also noticed that alot of the armies were trying to gear to face them, with more of a focus on anti-horde weaponry. This is a good thing, because everytime a player opts to take a flamer, thats one less melta.

 

Also Once your cargo bails from the Land raiders your opponent will feel overwhelmed with choices 3 packs rushing into thier lines will struggle to find time to target your land raiders, you can also disembark your ICs on the opposite side of the tank and seperate him from the unit.

 

I think it could be a real challenge, to say its not tactical is a bit harsh I think.

[WolfLordLars]

I think in the current enviornment, it can still be viable.

 

With the new concealment rules, and smoke, and lets not forget the new Vehicle damage chart. Land Raiders become much more viable.

 

Really?

 

Honestly, in the two games of 5th I have really played so far, I didnt get that at all. It felt like they went further out of their way to nerf tanks in favor of infantry. Its part of why I have not run with a LR yet, I dont want to waste the points.