Land Raiders

[Vassakov]

I play a fully mech army - 7 tanks and a Dread at 1500. In that sort of army, a LRC with BC's becomes a properly good fire magnet - move 12" in turn one and pop smoke. Then your opponents in trouble, as 99.9% of the time they're facing 13 BC's and friends on T2 in an AV14 bunker. at that point, 3 RB's with 6 GH's and HB's emerge from the flanks and a Vindie takes a pot shot at anything left. Oh, and a Dakka Pred to run interference.

 

Basically, with tanks at 1500 go all-or-nothing unless it's a hybrid list, in which case they can provide the back up fire and mobile reserve.

[littlbitz]

Oh yeah, I have been playing LOTS of games with 5th, and have been messing with a DW army I'm working on.

 

Running 2 Landraiders in that list, with success. Its a challenge yes, but it is viable. Now, I don't claim that it will be "top tier" but it will certianly be competative enough for you to enjoy yourself, and actually win some games with.

 

Also thats not to say that there aren't going to be army lists out there geared to face you, but as with any heavily themed list, there is going to be a "rock, paper, sissors" element. Occasionally you will run into the paper to cover your rock, so to speak.

 

1500 may be a bit tough, but I usually play 1750 and up. So, I will be able to squeeze in a couple other elements. I think Scouts will be a very important element in this army.

 

Hmm... I will have to work up a list now, and see what I can come up with.

[Grey Mage]

Skimmers got nerfed, hard core. It used to be my Eldar Falcons were tougher and more survivable than a landraider for half the points.

 

Standard tanks did get more survivable IMHO. AV 10 still dies pretty quickly, but 12-14 stays alive fairly well. Cover saves, having to penetrate to kill, and without a doubt the fact that I take alot of extra armor upgrades on non-transports. If you have one vehicle, or two, they still die just as quick as ever due to saturation of fire. If your opponent faces four or more however, or other units that require AT fire to die *Wolf Gaurd Termies spring to mind* then at 1500 points their survivability goes up. This seems to scale pretty well as the pt values go up too.

[WolfLordLars]

I used mostly skimmers, so I hear you there. I will try a game with a LRC next time I play my Ork buddy, see how it does. The LRE did ok... but not great.

[Grey Mage]

Truely there isnt a whole lot I see in most ork armies thatll take out a landraider. The most likely way for them to kill it is to rocket-glance it to death. I dont recall anything other than an artillery peice and Warbosses thatll get over str8 in the army

[Wolf89]

Truely there isnt a whole lot I see in most ork armies thatll take out a landraider. The most likely way for them to kill it is to rocket-glance it to death. I dont recall anything other than an artillery peice and Warbosses thatll get over str8 in the army

 

Shock attack gun is quite common, and a lot of the nobs with powerclaws can take em out... but yea, it's not as common for one to blow up against orks.

[Grey Mage]

Yeah, I just dont usually see the shock attack gun as an anti vehicle threat... its gotta get the hole over the enemy tank, and its variable strength means it usually doesnt have the punching power to take out a raider. Now it does scare the heck out of me when it comes to eating up my troops though... 50/50 chance of ignoring my armor, and usually wounding on a 3 or a 2. *sighs*

[Vash113]

Actually Land Raiders are the only tank that wasn't nerfed by 5th Edition. Now all hits in cc are resolved against rear armor which hurts all tanks except the Land Raider and... the Monolith.

 

The reduction in damage a glancing hit can result means that you need a str 9 or 10 weapon to even hope of damaging a Land Raider effectively.

 

Plus the new Power of the Machine Spirit rules mean that the Land Raider is the only tank still able to effectively move and fire the majority of its weaponry.

 

Not bad overall considering most tanks, especially Tau and Eldar skimmers, got totally screwed over.

[WolfLordLars]

Tau and Eldar skimmers didnt get screwed over, they got balanced with other vehicles. ^_^

 

I will try a LRC in my next game and report back on the success or failure.

[Grey Mage]

Yeah and my two shurikencannon vypers arent worthless, they are more tactically challenging. *sighs*.

 

On the other hand Ive noted my rhinos live longer, as do my Waveserpents *who are modeled lower to the ground*. This is a good thing as their survival means the survival of my troops.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

is it exactly fair to say that a vehicle that costs less then half a land raider should survive more often then a lad raider?

 

eldar and tau skimmers were placed where they need to be.

 

now if you want to talk about vehicles getting nerfed then you should really talk to the guard. unable to fire all those heavy bolters now.

[Vash113]

Tau and Eldar skimmers didnt get screwed over, they got balanced with other vehicles. ;)

 

I will try a LRC in my next game and report back on the success or failure.

 

[rant]

 

No they got screwed, they got screwed big time and there's absolutely no doubt about it, while the Land Raider suffered not at all, we can clearly see how balanced that is :lol:.

 

Skimmers protections were more than halved, their firepower halved, common wargear made useless and the ability to even hide nerfed and no they did not cost less than half that of a Land Raider. A decent Hammerhead can be almost 200 points and is now a fraction as effective as it used to be, the same for Falcons. Thats called geting screwed, not balanced. Imperial Guard and most Space Marine tanks got hurt badly too, just not as badly as Tau and Eldar skimmers. After all people may have complained that they were nasty, but they had to be. With Tau for instance mobile Firepower is ALL they have, I mean ALL. Tau can't outshoot Guard or Space Marines or other dedicated shooty lists, they can't outrun Eldar or Orks, and they have ZERO capability in close combat. Mobil firepower was the only advantage the Tau have and that got shredded, the Tau Codex is quite literally completely underpowered and there really isn't much the Tau can do to compensate, the army is in a pretty sad place at the moment. There's a very good reason my Tau army has been collecting dust ever since 5th.

 

[/rant]

 

But still like I said the Land Raider and the Monolith were the only tanks in the game that weren't dramatically effected by the 5th Edition vehicle nerf, might as well use them.

[pufnstuf]

@ vash

 

Can't hammers get... decoy launchers? that what its called? Does something funky to help them survive, is it 4+ cover in open or something? I still think Hammers are great.

[littlbitz]

Please guys lets keep this thread on topic and about Landraiders, and not about the Tau and thier skimmers.

[WolfLordLars]

Glad they finally fixed the broken eldar vehicles. Put marines back on top where they belonng. 40k, while having a nice supporting cast, is a story about the Space Marines. Nuff said.

 

 

With a LRC I can move and shoot everything, right? TLAC and Hurricane Bolters normally, with PotMS controlling the multi-melta most likely (to shoot at a different target)?

[Wolf89]

With a LRC I can move and shoot everything, right? TLAC and Hurricane Bolters normally, with PotMS controlling the multi-melta most likely (to shoot at a different target)?

 

Correct, you can shoot the Hurricane bolters because they're only S4 (defensive) and the TLAC (one main weapon) and with PotMS you can fire the MM where ever you want... likely a tank or something nasty like a bloodthirster :D

[pufnstuf]

Glad they finally fixed the broken eldar vehicles. Put marines back on top where they belonng. 40k, while having a nice supporting cast, is a story about the Space Marines. Nuff said.

 

 

With a LRC I can move and shoot everything, right? TLAC and Hurricane Bolters normally, with PotMS controlling the multi-melta most likely (to shoot at a different target)?

 

Only when moving 6" At 12" 1 weapon using PotMS

[Grey Mage]

And all the hurricane bolters. Remember that they are defensive weapons. The only choice you have to make even at speed is wether its assault cannon or multimelta.... and thats just situational.

[Roland Durendal]

Personally I always use a LRC in games 1500 and up. Transports my 13-14 BCs and Wolf Lord. Currently I use an all Mech list (except for my Pod Ironclad) and it either takes fire that would crush my transports or everyone ignores it and it steamrolls around.

 

When I played a pure Pod list (except for the LRC and a Ven Drea), I found its survival rate decreased in that the enemy could concentrate more fire on on since the pod dudes arrived piecemeal.

 

Overall I favor one LRC in games 1500 and up. Haven't thought about using 2 or more cuz I like having lots of troops

[pufnstuf]

And all the hurricane bolters. Remember that they are defensive weapons. The only choice you have to make even at speed is wether its assault cannon or multimelta.... and thats just situational.

 

defensive weps only work at 6", and if your taking an LRC, chances are your transporting something, and therefore wanting to move it 12". IMO GK have it made since thier LRC's follow the old rules and can still fire thier Hurricane bolters while mvoe 12" plus another weapon from PotMS

[Grey Mage]

How does the fact they have an older codex allow them to ignore generic vehicle rules?

[Roland Durendal]

I believe th PoTM rules in their dex are different than from those found in the SM Dex. Ergo they follow the rules in their dex. Just like BTs have different PoTM rules in their dex which BTs must follow

[pufnstuf]

I believe th PoTM rules in their dex are different than from those found in the SM Dex. Ergo they follow the rules in their dex. Just like BTs have different PoTM rules in their dex which BTs must follow

 

This is true, plus thier hurricane bolters in thier dex have different rules than the SM one.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

although i do believe their potms is at bs 2?

[Grey Mage]

No.... its at BS 4. Scary stuff.