Gate of Infinity

[Br.Pat]

If you suffer 'Delayed' as a Deep Strike mishap when using Gate of Infinity, then the teleporting psyker and/or unit is plaecd back in reserve.

 

However, when the unit is placed back on the table again, can you still only 'land' within 24" of the location where you used the psychic power? Or is this restriction lifted seeing as the unit was placed in reserve?

[Souchan]

They haven't actually covered this specifically, so infact, I would say they have to walk back on(damn psykers teleporting us out in the middle of nowhere, now we needs to run back to the battlefield) unless the unit itself has a deepstrike capability(as psyker powers typically can't be used off table).

 

So much for the rules, I however would have no issue letting my opponent DS them on again but probably within the area previously restricted by their movements or maybe 24" from his deployment zone(I am still undecided what I would find fairer, probably the first of these)

[GTang]

Maybe they stay where they started, as if the power hadn't gone off.

[earthen]

just put a marker where they took off from so you can remember. The rule is pretty clear - you remove them from the table. Then deep strike back in. Get a bad roll and they stay in reserve. Still need to deepstrike within 24 like the rulebook says.

 

Something as simple as a penny will make this pretty easy to accomplish.

[Br.Pat]

just put a marker where they took off from so you can remember. The rule is pretty clear - you remove them from the table. Then deep strike back in. Get a bad roll and they stay in reserve. Still need to deepstrike within 24 like the rulebook says.

 

Something as simple as a penny will make this pretty easy to accomplish.

 

The problem is the rulebook doesn't say. It just says that they use the deep strike rules.

[WarpSpawn]

I think RAW covers this one pretty well, without having to resort too much to house rules. The only thing you have to change is disregarding the word "back", in "placed back in reserve". The rules for deepstriking reserves can then be followed without any need for further modification.

 

I would argue that the 24" limit does not need to be applied to arriving from reserves and only really applies to deep striking from GoI. The delay of at least one turn (if it's the end of the game I'm assuming they even count as destroyed) does somewhat counter any benefit from being able to deepstrike anywhere when they do arrive, as well as the risk of further scatter and/or mishap.

 

That said, I do not think it would be entirely unreasonable to simply resolve the placing of the initial deepstrike, then place them on that spot when they finally show up, without further scatter. Not really supported by RAW but it makes some sense

[maniclurker]

Unless the libby has termie armor, and the unit is either LotD, assault marines with packs, termies, or any other unit that is specifically allowed to Deep Strike, then the unit does not get to return via deep strike. As such, it's best not to roll that result. Other wise, you'll be walking the unit on.

 

I would also think that, because it is not deployment, you cannot seperate the IC from the unit. As such, they'll have to stay together.

 

Discuss...

[nurglez]

hmmm maniclurker makes a semi valid point here, can you deepstrike something in from reserves that cant deepstrike?

 

as, RAW, the deepstrike table tells you to place them back in reserve. so then when you would roll to see if they came in, would they be able to deepstrike down considering that the models might not have the deepstrike special rule?

[SeattleDV8]

Its a psychic power that uses the deep strike rules, so the nornmal restrictions to DS are not an issue.

We treat it like a DS unit in reserve even though it is a unit off in the warp somewhere .

its the simplest way as Warp said.

[nighthawks]

Its a psychic power that uses the deep strike rules, so the nornmal restrictions to DS are not an issue.

We treat it like a DS unit in reserve even though it is a unit off in the warp somewhere .

its the simplest way as Warp said.

agreed - though manic has a valid point.

[Playa]

Hey,

 

Its a psychic power that uses the deep strike rules, so the nornmal restrictions to DS are not an issue.

We treat it like a DS unit in reserve even though it is a unit off in the warp somewhere .

its the simplest way as Warp said.

agreed - though manic has a valid point.

 

Gate @dex p57 makes no mention of Reserves. As I read it, the progression is -

 

1. Declare Gate at beginning of the Lib's Movement phase, and move his Unit off-table (*not* into Reserve).

2. Place Marker and roll for Scatter using the "doubles" mechanic to determine whether casualties occur.

3. If you Scatter into an area that merits using the Mishap table (RB p95), use it.

 

Here's where the OP comes in -

 

If you get an "Accident" result, the entire Unit can be removed without rule conflict. Remove it.

If you get a "Misplaced" result, one's opponent may place the Unit anywhere without conflict. Place it.

If you get a "Delayed" result, the Unit cannot be placed "back in Reserve", as they aren't a Reserve Unit.

 

And, what's the FAQ say about dex rules with no RB effect? Ignore it - no mishap.

At least until the next Yak FAQ comes along . . .

 

 

Playa

[SeattleDV8]

If GoI uses the deep strike rules , we have to use all of them. There is nothing in the powers rules about this besides using the rules for Deep Strike and the fact they are removed from the table. In effect coming in from reserve if not in fact. The FAQ ruling you are speaking about is for older codex rules i.e. 4th ed and in some cases 3rd Ed rules. Not a rule from the first codex under 5th ed.

[maniclurker]

If, while using the rules for deep strike, you scatter onto something you're not supposed to, then you use the mishap chart.

 

If the result is to place the unit back into reserve, then it seems clear to me that you put them back into reserve, whether or not they originally started there.

 

If the unit doesn't have the ability to deep strike, then it would seem to me that you cannot. As such, you'll be walking them back on.

 

This sucks for you if it happens...

[WarpSpawn]

No matter how you do play it, I can see no justification for making them walk back on. As far as I'm concerned, they are a deep striker until they have either sucessfully re-entered play or have been destroyed in the attempt.

[Steelmage99]

I see no justification for suddenly giving them the Deep Strike rule. Should the Mishap Table put them back in reserve, they are just that, back in reserve. They can now re-enter the game in any way allowed to them. And Deep Strike isn't one of them.

 

Where they allowed to Outflank, either by nature of a unit rule or special character, they could do that.

[SeattleDV8]

Its the librarians psychic power that allows them to be treated as if deep striking. As soon as it is used they ARE deep striking, with some added risks and limits on where they can come back on the board. The codex tells us to follow the rules for deep strike, the mishap table is part of those rules.

[maniclurker]

Alright, let's reset this, with the pertinent information to discuss it:

 

THE GATE OF INFINITY, 5e C:SM, pg. 57

The Librararian, and any unit he is with, are removed from the tabletop and immediately placed back together anywhere within 24" using the deep stike rules.

Deep strike mishaps, 5e BRB, pg. 95

...as one may arrive miles away from the intended objective or even inside solid rock! If any of the models in a deep striking unit cannot be deployed because they would land off the table, in impassable terrain, on top of a friendly model, or on top or within 1" of an enemy model, something has gon wrong. The controlling player must roll on the deep strike Mishap talbe and apply the results.

DEEP STRIKE MISHAP TALBE, 5e BRB, pg. 95

5-6 Delayed. ...The unit is placed back in reserve.

Preparing reserves, 5e BRB, pg. 94

If units in reserve have the 'deep strike'... special rule, the player must declare to his opponent, during army deployment, whether they are going to use their special rules to deep strike... or they are going to enter from his own table edge when they will become available

I've taken the liberty of not including extranious information, as indicated by '...' portions in the quotes. If any doubt the veracity of this, then they can easily look in the book for these parts, as I've included the page number and heading of topic.

 

Alright, so the order of operation is thus:

 

1. You succesfully pass Gate power.

2. You place model in accordance with deep strike and roll for scatter.

3. You scatter somewhere bad, or can't place all of the models in the unit correctly.

4. You roll on the Mishap Table

5. Your roll is 5 or 6, sending you back into reserves.

 

This is where I start with theory, as you have entered a grey area. Your unit is in reserves, but not because of deployment.

 

6. Though it's not deployment, you still have the ability to declare whether you will arrive by deep strike/outflank, etc, etc, as rules permit.

7. The unit in question does not have the special rule deep strike, so that is not allowed. As such, you opt to arrive from your own table edge, as you have no other choice.

8. You follow the rules for reserves, and roll for reserves next turn. Alternatively, if it's turn 5+, you automatically arrive... on your own table edge.

 

I would like to interject that it would be permissable to allow the librarian, if he's in termie armor, to arrive by deep strike if desired, and have the unit he was in arrive by regular means. Alternatively, if the unit, but not the libby, can arrive by deep strike, you can split the up and do so with them.

 

If the libby and the unit he was in can deepstrike (he's in termie armor, and the unit is LotD, termies, assault marines, etc.) then they can both opt to arrive by deepstrike, either together or seperately.

 

You must declare all of this to your opponent.

[SeattleDV8]

Although I may not agree you present a well thought out and reasonable way to handle this grey area of the rules.

My view has been stated above. I feel mine is a simpler way to treat it but it by no means any more RAW than Manic's

[Br.Pat]

/big siigh

 

You guys have failed to answer my original question. Let's start this again

 

Librarian and Sternguard Squad uses GoI. The unit scatters onto an enemy unit.

 

A Delayed result is rolled on the Deep Strike Mishap table.

 

The unit is granted the Deep Strike ability when using this power... therefore I have no idea where you came up with saying that they have to walk back on. Besides, they're lost in the Warp, you can't walk back on from there. And besides, I am 100% certain that whoever wrote this did not have this psychic powers (or other similar ones for that matter... there are about 3 in the whole game, yet dozens of Deep Striking units) in mind.

 

Now my question is.... when you Deep Strike them again NEXT TURN (due to the Delayed result) can you Deep Strike them anywhere on the table, or just within 24" of the area it was originally cast (due to GoI range)?

 

Please answer -that- question.

[WarpSpawn]

6. Though it's not deployment, you still have the ability to declare whether you will arrive by deep strike/outflank, etc, etc, as rules permit.

7. The unit in question does not have the special rule deep strike, so that is not allowed. As such, you opt to arrive from your own table edge, as you have no other choice.

 

You prepare reserves in the deployment phase. I really cannot see any reason to grant this ability later on in the game. I would also argue that they in effect have the deep strike rule, until they have performed said deep strike or been destroyed, by virtue of the GoI power.

 

I also find it strange how literally you are taking some of the existing rules, when no literal interpretation will give us an answer here. I personally favour the path of logic and least modification of RAW possible. For me, this goes as follows:

 

1) Unit becomes able to deepstrike. No time limit is set for how long this lasts but logically it would be until they have peformed a deep strike (or have been destroyed, at which point they lose the ability until the power is used again.

 

2) If they are delayed, they are placed in reserve and can deep strike when they become available from reserves. They are after all lost in the warp, not hiking through a forest just off the board (though I realise other arguments may be possible on the fluff explaination).

 

3) If the librarian has taken another unit with him, they still retain the same risk when scattering, as in the turn the GoI was used. I am unsure about the 24" range limit but would personally lean towards forgetting about this bit.

 

That's how it makes sense to me. No rules lawyering, just my own special version of logic, based on existing rules. I don't expect everone to agree but this is definitely the approach I would promote if it ever comes up, whichever side of the table I am on.

[WarpSpawn]

Now my question is.... when you Deep Strike them again NEXT TURN (due to the Delayed result) can you Deep Strike them anywhere on the table, or just within 24" of the area it was originally cast (due to GoI range)?

 

Please answer -that- question.

 

I don't think there is a RAW answer to that one. As I already said, I think I would personally waive the range limit but keep the risk that goes with GoI deep striking with a unit.

[Steelmage99]

/big siigh

 

You guys have failed to answer my original question. Let's start this again

 

Librarian and Sternguard Squad uses GoI. The unit scatters onto an enemy unit.

 

A Delayed result is rolled on the Deep Strike Mishap table.

 

The unit is granted the Deep Strike ability when using this power...

 

No, it is not. The unit is placed back on the table using the Deep Strike rules. This is certainly not the same as granting the unit the Deep Strike ability.

 

therefore I have no idea where you came up with saying that they have to walk back on. Besides, they're lost in the Warp, you can't walk back on from there.

 

You just made that up. ;) They are not lost in the Warp, they are put back in Reserve. Lost in the Warp is a roll of 1-2 on the Mishap Table. They are Delayed (5-6). This can equally represent them missing their target and walking back on-table from wherever they landed.

 

And besides, I am 100% certain that whoever wrote this did not have this psychic powers (or other similar ones for that matter... there are about 3 in the whole game, yet dozens of Deep Striking units) in mind.

 

I am happy you are 100 % certain. I, on the other hand, am not. The fact that you are very sure doesn't really have an impact on this rules discussion.

 

Now my question is.... when you Deep Strike them again NEXT TURN (due to the Delayed result) can you Deep Strike them anywhere on the table, or just within 24" of the area it was originally cast (due to GoI range)?

 

The question becomes irrelevant as they will not be Deep Striking next turn.

[WarpSpawn]

The main problem with your attitude here is that you are preaching to us as if RAW actually says to play it your way. It does not. In fact, it does not really say to play it any way in particular. We have a gap in the rules that we need to paper over as best we can. you are of course entitled to your opinion, as are we all, but do not mistake that opinion for anything else.

 

I'd also like to ask if you can think of any other unit in the game where they get a single shot at deepstriking, then have to walk on the next time around. I cannot think of any.

[zedsdead]

I think the biggest problem is we are using a rule that describes units coming in from "reserve" going back into "reserve such as the case with termies, assault squads ect ect. In this case the unit was never in reserve in the first place.

 

If you really want to take the rule in its entirety and split hairs you could consider the fact that neither the (un-terminator geared) librarian and tac squad were able to use "deep strike" rules to begin with.

 

The way i see it working is you use DS rules to simplify how "mishaps" and placement are delt with using gate of infinity.

[Steelmage99]

The main problem with your attitude here is that you are preaching to us as if RAW actually says to play it your way. It does not. In fact, it does not really say to play it any way in particular. We have a gap in the rules that we need to paper over as best we can. you are of course entitled to your opinion, as are we all, but do not mistake that opinion for anything else.

 

I'd also like to ask if you can think of any other unit in the game where they get a single shot at deepstriking, then have to walk on the next time around. I cannot think of any.

 

*shakes head and walks away*