We own it ALL!

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

Chaos wouldn't destroy itself after being victorious. "Legion" states that if the traitors won the Heresy, Horus would eradicate mankind out of self-loathing and Chaos would be destroyed with them.

 

We've got to put that in perspective however- as the theory of a bunch of filthy xenos who might not have been completely forthcoming about other possibilities. ;)

 

When was the last time the Star Child theory was treated as canon by GW?

 

The real question is 'when was it overwritten?'

[Lord_Caerolion]

Well, about Legion:

 

 

I got this theory from someone on the Black Library forums (I think). But you have to remember, the Cabal gets the Acuity from the Warp. Who's in charge of the Warp, pretty much? The Chaos Gods. Who says what they saw was right? And also, they saw what would happen if Chaos won or lost the Heresy, they didn't see how they won or lost. The Cabal assumed that Chaos winning meant Horus winning. But surely, if Horus winning meant Chaos dying, then the Emperor winning the Heresy is a win for Chaos? Maybe thats how Chaos planned it all along? Chaos wanted the Alpha Legion to turn, hence why Chaos manipulates Grammaticus in the Nurthene city to get to the Alpha Legion. Hence why a Black Cube, a display of Chaos' power turns up as soon as Grammaticus tries to call it off. Horus was used by Chaos. He was meant to lose. I'll try to find the thread I read this in. It's quite a good read.

 

[dreamsofmishra]

I think that it could very well be possible that the current status quo is just what the chaos space marines (and chaos gods) intend to maintain. The Primarchs of the Chaos Legions remain in the Eye, and do not bother venturing out. Perhaps they (or because of manipulation by the chaos gods) do not wish to truly attempt to destroy mankind, but to remain as a disease that doesn't like, just so they can continue their own existence, just like how a parasite would.

[Brother Nihm]

But won't that conflict with the whole 'Let the Galaxy Burn!' feeling?

 

"For ten thousand years we have fought the Long War and our hatred still knows no succour. Those who have defied us shall feel the full wrath of Chaos. Mackan, Stygies and Avellorn will burn before our fury, daemons will feast upon the soft flesh of innocence. Death to the False Emperor! Death to the weakling Imperium of Man!" (2nd edition Codex Chaos)

 

Destroy, for the sake of Destruction

 

Kill, for the sake of Killing (Codex: Chaos Space Marines (4th Edition), p. 83)

 

If a man dedicates his life to good deeds and the welfare of others, he will die unthanked and unremembered. If he exercises his genius bringing misery and death to billions, his name will echo through the millennia for a hundred lifetimes. Infamy is always more preferable to ignominy. - Fabius Bile

 

We fight the long war, not through vain notions of duty and honour, but through a far purer purpose: hatred. At the height of our glory we were betrayed and cast out by our kin. Guilliman, Dorn, Sanguinius-these are names I curse. Horus, Perturabo, Angron-these are names I revere, names I would follow to the very end. It is this hatred that has sustained me through the long millenia. I tend it with bitterness. I nurture it with the deaths of my former brothers. For I know that when the end is upon us and Horus is returned, then the false emperor shall be cast down from his sepulchral Golden Throne, and we shall take our rightful place at the side of Horus, the true Emperor of Mankind. - Ferrous Ironclaw

 

Some fight for vengeance

Some fight for (their truth)

Some fight for freedom

Some fight for the Chaos Gods

Some fight for the sake of fighting

 

Others just want to tear it down.

 

Most Chaos Space Marines are pawns of Chaos and they are used as such. Should the Fell Four triumph over the Imperium, I'd imagine that there would be an internal power struggle of such magnitude that the collective psyche of mankind would be shattered (food for the gods!). I don't think that the warp would be calmed. Instead, the victorious power(s) would expand as far as possible until it is no longer possible to do.

 

Then the remaining powerhouses would duke it out.

 

 

e.g. Chaos God #1 versus the Great Devourer.

[Captain Malachi]

e.g. Chaos God #1 versus the Great Devourer.

I still don't see why the imperium doesn't just virus bomb their hiveships.

[dreamsofmishra]

Their hive ships would be surrounded by all the other meatshield ships.. Do all battleships have a payload of virus bombs ready anyway.. o.O

[Brother Delias]

Mine do?

 

Hehe, Come from a world were 7/8ths of the population lives constantly in a biotoxin, to the point where they have to be treated at birth with an agent that metabolises the biotoxin, and then put them in ships where the air must be carefully maintained with some section being purposely contaminated so that the majority survive, while there are "clean" areas for those that can actually survive off of normal oxygen. yeah... My fleets are toxic wastelands, AND imperial to boot, go figure...

 

However, I doubt highly that virus bombing would work... as they would quickly kill off the virus through genetic manipulation, hence why Nurgle hasn't simply plagued them to death.

[Captain Malachi]

The life-eater virus (or whatever it's called) would kill them to quick for them to genetically manipulate it, and there wouldn't be a single survivor, that's the whole point of virus bombing, frankly I think if any force in the galaxy, Nurgle has the best chance of stopping the hive fleets, he's just too lazy to do it :D

 

P.S. I love Papa Nurgle really ;)

[Brother Delias]

how can anyone hate Grandfather Nurgle? He's just so giving to everyone, even those that hate him beyond anything else!

[Captain Malachi]

Yep, he's like a big green santa :tu:

[the jeske]

Nurgle has the best chance of stopping the hive fleets, he's just too lazy to do it

the hive fleets blank the warp , so there would be no demons no warp rifts for demonic plague to come etc and the warp blanking show in the fluff was only from scouts fleets [because the fleets that are attacking now are scout fleets] . the real thing would be much stronger . also unlike the kroot the hive mind does learn even from dieing hive fleets . the imperials managed to poison a norn queen [by luring her with captured genestealers] but it worked one time after that all other fleets were immune to the poison .

 

am not saying here that nurgle plagues couldnt kill some tyranids . it could , but remember techniclly speaking nids are what necron would be , if they defeted the old gods and killed all the younge races . twice .

[Lord_Caerolion]

They have a bit in some Battlefleet Gothic fluff where they try to virus-bomb a hive ship, and actually manage to hit it. Unfortunately for the Imperials, it doesn't kill it, instead the hive ship just spews it back into their ship when it manages to latch onto them.

[x_beowolf_x1]

Nurgle has the best chance of stopping the hive fleets, he's just too lazy to do it

the hive fleets blank the warp , so there would be no demons no warp rifts for demonic plague to come etc and the warp blanking show in the fluff was only from scouts fleets [because the fleets that are attacking now are scout fleets] . the real thing would be much stronger . also unlike the kroot the hive mind does learn even from dieing hive fleets . the imperials managed to poison a norn queen [by luring her with captured genestealers] but it worked one time after that all other fleets were immune to the poison .

 

am not saying here that nurgle plagues couldnt kill some tyranids . it could , but remember techniclly speaking nids are what necron would be , if they defeted the old gods and killed all the younge races . twice .

 

I dunno. We've only heard of imperial communications getting cut off when a hive fleet approaches... but who's to say that it will work for the Chaos Gods? I bet that they're powerful enough to break the Tyranid's psychic cordon.

 

The only ones who could stand against chaos would be orks or necrons.

[dreamsofmishra]

Perhaps chaos does have the potential, since they are pretty much GODS.. But the question is whether they would want to. The chaos gods see the whole universe much like we see Sim City, its simply a game, and a catastrophe is just another minor event winkling away. If the chaos space marines do not stray from the eye of terror, would the tyranid enter the eye of terror? If not then chaos can choose to ignore the tyranid threat.

[the jeske]

but who's to say that it will work for the Chaos Gods?

it cuts of the warp more or less the same way necron do only nids dont need generators on it , they are a moving shadow . at least thats how its been till the 5th ed . some of the nids changes are really stupid like going up from 30 days to eat a planet to 3 days and allowing nids warp fast travel . makes no sense , if nids had that the galaxy would have been eaten withing a few hundrad years.

 

I bet that they're powerful enough to break the Tyranid's psychic cordon.

maybe , but against what ? a single fleet a single invasion ? the main nids fleet is made out of bilions of ships . the imperials did the math and to stop one of its tendrils [stop not push back] they would have to remove all the forces they have and push themselfs to 45% population fighting . only then the empire would break up because of the orks , chaos , necron etc . And thats just a single new scout fleet , because there is another one bigger coming from the south west . If it wasnt for the dyson sphear and that inq that lured the nids to orks infested teritorry [and his tactics of doing exterminaturs on worlds shortlly after the nids started attacking a planet] , nids would be around terra right now .

 

 

as the eye goes and the chaos gods . no says they arent powerful they are . but mostlly because they have countless races fuelling them [without the riples in the warp there are no chaos gods] . with each race the nids eat , the chaos gods become weaker and weaker.

If the number of people who fear , hate , desire etc drop below a certain lvl the eye will just close up and the warp will be calm again .

[Brother Delias]

which due to Eldar fluff, won't happen, as the Eldar god that will be borne at the death of the last Eldar is the only one that is said to be able to kill Slannesh.

[Razrhaghul]

off-topic but necessary for clarification:

Nids aren't blanks, i don't know why people keep getting this confused. they don't blank the warp, they blanket it. the hivemind, the collected consciousness that is almost a warp entity in itself, that enables and directs the ebbs and flows of the fleets motives uses the warp, zoanthropes have psychic powers. blanks don't have psychic powers.

think of the hive mind like early dial-up single line internet connection.

the planetary systems that the fleets come in close proximity to want to make a call out, for help, (usually astropathic), so they pick up the phone, only to get an earfull of that annoying gritty cybernoise that represents the nids collective minds jibbering back and forth.

 

more on topic:

given the nature of the individual geno-types minds, that make up the nid species, is rather primitive/instinctual if their collective consciousness fed any kind of chaos god, it would probably be more attune to the primitive demi-gods that dwelt in the warp, when it was still somewhat stable, before human/eldar/etc consciousness, with all their complex and seething emotions, twisted and pushed the warp into the hell we know it as now. the Hivemind is almost like a god in its own right, though far more alien and driving in nature than the definable personalities of Big Four.

 

i think the reason chaos doesn't have the strength to take down the nids at the moment, is because they lack the numbers and resources.

also because it is already a strain to summon daemon into a stable material environment for any given period of time, it would probably take a lot more power, sacrifice and concentration for any psykers in proximity to the fleets to summon the daemons when you have scratching babble of a million alien voices screaming at the inside of your mind.

 

 

actually that makes me wonder if all that psychatter of the nids contributes in some way to the warp, feeding raw chaos, rather than any of the gods? and if there are battles in the warp between daemons and some kind of nid-entity, that way the nids could attack on more than one plain of existence, in the material and immaterial worlds?

[minigun762]

As for the Tyranids, I think that Chaos might have the best options against them in using Daemons as their main force. While Tyranids may number in the billions of trillions of trillions, Daemons are truly infinite and they can't be killed (merely banished back) so the Tyranids don't gain any biomass from fighting with Daemons as the material that comprises daemons is not from this reality to begin with.

 

As Chaos spreads, I'm sure great works (led by the Word Bearers no doubt) will be raised that will shrink and finally pierce the veil between the physical and warp realms. In essence, the Warp will bleed into our world, first slowly then more quickly. Such a change will only help the forces of Chaos as it literally reshapes the physical world to suit their needs.

 

I guess my point is that a galaxy ruled by Chaos is the best defense against the Tyranids and possibly the Necron.

[doctor_wu]

Tyranids vs chaos would be an insane battle. Deamons may be able to find the area in the blanket of the warp and get on hive ships. This will be super effective at first as they kill them from the inside. Actually the splinter fleets from kraken are a problem to chaos with them constantly whittle down humans and other things that contribute to the warp.

[daemon*hunter]

If you think about it, when a demon dies it goes back to the warp, so they could just battle nids and each other for ever, or wait for life to re-evolve...

 

just my opinion, but i dont think the gods would devolve or disappear, if they would, they probably wouldn't be so eager to kill everything...

[DracoDarco]

well in the codex it states that abby wants to create an empire of chaos, however i think that the nids would be the next big problem seeing as how the other races have barely seen even a fraction of them that are out there and have no idea what galaxy they came from

[Conor The Great]

I kinda have my own little theory,Immediatly after the vistory the Original traitor legions would follow tgeir own course for a while.The World Eaters would probly go fight some Orks,The Emperors Children would hunt down the Eldar,Both the Emps Kids and the Death Guard wolud have some fun with the Tau ;) And the the Universe would take a turn for the worst,Deamonswould tear through the flesh of all mortals who survived,The skies would rain mice,there would be a constant odur of eldarberries and the air would turn blue,

Reality would be torn asunder dragging the tratior legions down into depths of maddness even Marines could not endure.

 

Sounds like fun......Cant wait :P

[daemon*hunter]

I'll bring the cake!

 

cant have an apocalypse without cake :P

[Conor The Great]

That would be great untill the cake tried to eat everyone :jaw: Probly doesnt taste to good either :)

[Sception]

Without the unifying motivation of hatred for the Imperium, the various Chaos factions split apart claiming separate domains and collapsing into infighting, occasionally interrupted by conflict with the Eldar or Tau. In the meantime, Ork hordes, Tyranid hives, and Necron fleets grow generally unopposed, with one of the three eventually reaching an invincible critical mass and clearing the galaxy of anything other then itself.