Evicerators in Seraphim squads

[BaronTuman]

So, in an 8 girl Seraphim squad, is it important to take an Eviscerator?

[jakehunter52]

I would say so. In a SoB army, they are really the only CC units that are worth taking and I feel like that if you are going to dedicate them to that, then it is worth dishing out the points to get some confirmed kills. That, and it ups their already formidable anti-tank options (standard krak grenades, options to buy melta bombs and inferno pistols) and helps out a lot if you were ever to get charged by a dreadnought, especially the Ironclad. However, you shouldn't feel obligated to take if you don't want to, with 8 in the squad and having a vet in there, there is a good chance you can get DG and get for sure kills that way or it might not be appropriate to take it at all (like if you are fighting a heavily infantry Tau or IG army). As a general rule though, I would say yes.

[Inquisitor Fox]

As a contrasting opinion.. I don't and I've been happy with mine ;) I use a power weapon and plasma pistol. It really depends on what you're hoping to accomplish with the Seraphim I should think... they can be either anti-infantry, anti-armor, or both.. and well.. there's a bit of options. I'd say play a few games with and without one using a count-as "hey Bob, do you mind if I say this sergeant here has an eviscerator for this game so I can try it out?" and see how it goes :cry:

[Auedawen]

Plasma pistol huh? Not to sure how I feel about the potential loss of your Vet. Superior by plasma burning. Have you ever thought of a Brazier? Twin hand flamers in the squad, plus a brazier on the Vet (and of course a well timed Divine Guidance) and Teq's or Meq's don't have a chance (which is the only reason I assume you'd have the Plasma pistol in the first place). Not only is that Brazier gonna handle Teq's or Meq's about as well as your plasma pistol, but it's VASTLY superior against hordes. Well worth it imo. It even counts as a CCW in case you want to keep the power sword

[BaronTuman]

So, here's the situation;

 

with the Evicerators (2 squads of 8) I get an Lance Strike and a doofus inquisitor.

 

Without the Evicerators, I get a doofus inquisitor, Callidus Assassin, and the Mantle on my jump Cannoness.

 

I'm feeling it's a pretty good trade off. What do you think?

[Inquisitor Fox]

Plasma pistol huh? Not to sure how I feel about the potential loss of your Vet. Superior by plasma burning. Have you ever thought of a Brazier? Twin hand flamers in the squad, plus a brazier on the Vet (and of course a well timed Divine Guidance) and Teq's or Meq's don't have a chance (which is the only reason I assume you'd have the Plasma pistol in the first place). Not only is that Brazier gonna handle Teq's or Meq's about as well as your plasma pistol, but it's VASTLY superior against hordes. Well worth it imo. It even counts as a CCW in case you want to keep the power sword

 

How about the plasma pistol, and 2 tl inferno pistols kissing side and rear armor vehicles goodbye or obliterating terminator squads? :P It's juicy, give it a try!

 

So, here's the situation;

 

with the Evicerators (2 squads of 8) I get an Lance Strike and a doofus inquisitor.

 

Without the Evicerators, I get a doofus inquisitor, Callidus Assassin, and the Mantle on my jump Cannoness.

 

I'm feeling it's a pretty good trade off. What do you think?

Personally, I'd go with the Callidus and the mantle, but that's just me *shrugs* If you're short on anti-armor though, the eviscerators will help a little.

[Skytear]

I'm not using eviscerators on mine, I'm a fan of double inferno pistols.

I use allied-in seraphim for tank hunting alongside my Daemonhunters and they deliver.

For a general, take on everything unit, my take is you are better off without them.

 

You might consider what Nicole said. And you seem to have put those points you save to good use.

 

As always, kit your Seraphim for what you want them to do. Mine go tank hunting and heavy armor basing

and I've not missed the eviscerator. :P

[Arkaniss]

I've taken to using the flamers on Seraphim squads - i'll usually slap a Power Weapon on the Veteran Superior for some added oomph in CC. I've dropped the 2x IP and Eviscerator build as they were a bit too successful. (Also they're a bit expensive - i like spending the points elsewhere now - i also like the Callidus!)

 

An Eviscerator on a fast unit painted a big target over my Seraphim and my regular opponents went to great lengths to wipe them out. Throw in a few bad dice rolls and my Seraphim achieved nothing for quite a few games. Unless attracting fire power is an achievement! I find the flamer build is less threatening to my opponents and they tend not to notice the damage as they spread it around, rather than one cherished vehicle going up in smoke.

 

Funny how people put such high value on their vehicles when they're threatened, but tend to not mind so much if its infantry you're beating down on.

[Celestine]

The Eviscerators are nice but I now opt for a combi-flamer just to get 2 TLFlamers and 1 Flamer hit on a unit. Personally I hate doing CC with my seraphim, when caught in CC I would rather use a faith point for an invul save and then hit and run out, then come back and give them some Flaming justice.

[Auedawen]

Celestine, you described exactly how CC is done with Seraphim (though doing it with Inferno pistols is also devastating to Teq's). The eviscerator still comes in VERY handy because it gives you a much better chance of winning close combat (s6 power weapon will actually down most troops, S3 on the other hand is rather ineffective).

 

Basically the tactic is on your turn to swoop in, flame, then engage in CC. On the opponents turn you'll hit and run out of combat. By this point hopefully the squad is dead or fleeing allowing you to start over with another unit. If this is not the case then you repeat the steps until said squad is dead. The problem of course is WINNING in CC, the eviscerator turns the Seraphim squad from a squad that'll win against...guard, tau, and eldar guardsmen into one that should be feared by almost any squad in the game.

[SJumppanen]

I use Seraphims with EVI and pair of IP's. I have 2 of these squads, so most of the time i get least one squad in to fight despite the enemy. I prefer IP's over flamers as i don't think that flamers can get enough hits to quarantee proper divine guidance results (specialy now with 5th. edition when opponent can pile all the 6s on one modell) so i just take IP's to soften the enemy and then i just charge them with Evi. Sometimes i also soften the enemy with Exorchists if it hapens to be large squad.

[Charred Heretic]

By default, I take the Evis for three reasons:

 

Serraphim need to spend time in CC, so it will absolutely get used, and as such, it's payback is assured.

Seraphim are always going to charge, so it's like having two or three free attacks.

Opportunity: The Evis threatens any tank in its range. That's more options for you and more problems for your opponent.

[boreas]

I guess it depends on what you face, but against Nids and Guards (my main opponents) I've always had more luck with the eviscerators + 2 double-hand-flamers squads. If I face infantry, my flamers/pistols hurt the squad so bad that CC will mop-up even if I've got one less attack. Against tanks and, more importantly, Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants the eviscerator is a godsend. A carnifex that left with 1-2 wounds after an exorcist salvo will be put down by charging seraphims with an eviscerator.

 

I find that squad (6 or 7 Seraphims w/2 hand-flamers + VSS seraphim w/evisc.) is extremely good at everything!

 

Phil

[BaronTuman]

Ok, so maybe that's another question.

 

Take these two squads;

 

8 Seraphim VSS, Book, 2xFlamers

8 Seraphim VSS, Book, 2xInfernos

 

Is having 8 girls better than having 7 with an Evicerator?

 

I could find the extra 6 points in my list, but I'm concerned that I'll lose the ability to get a proper divine guidance off with only 7, even with the Simulacrum.

[boreas]

Personnally, I prefer 7 girls, as the odd of getting Spirit of the Marty are better (I use it more than divine guidance). Seven, actually, gives you the best "overall" odds of getting an Act of Faith.

 

As I said, I find the eviscerator and twin-hand-flamers makes for a more "all-rounder" squad...

 

Phil

[march10k]

(specialy now with 5th. edition when opponent can pile all the 6s on one modell)

 

How so?

[SJumppanen]

(specialy now with 5th. edition when opponent can pile all the 6s on one modell)

 

How so?

 

Well, not all, but he can pile lot of them on few modells and then make rest of them take chances with normal saves.

[Auedawen]

The way rolling works is that you must assign wounds to every model before you can put an extra on a single model. So lets say, with 3 flamer templates you cause 13 wounds on a 10 man squad. 4 are Divine Guidance 6's (thus ap1). The enemy squad is 10 strong. So in the first round, 2 different models are assigned one of the divine guidance wounds, the other 8 normal. 3/13 wounds still need to be applied, 2 of which are DG. So 2nd time through, the two models that were hit with DG wounds the first time have a SECOND DG wound applied to them. The last, normal wound gets doubled up on some other hapless enemy model.

 

Thus, even though you scored 4 DG wounds at ap1, only 2 enemy models die. Crappy.

 

However, if you manage 9 wounds, 3 of which are DG. Then 3 separate models take the DG wounds. Funny huh?