IA: Exonerators

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I could see how permanently attaching a Marine to a fixed system would seem like a waste of their physical abilities, but what if it's a way to circumvent the fact that there are only so many Dreadnoughts to go around?

 

Yes, that could work. You would need to emphasise that these brothers would normally be granted the Emperor's Peace if these spaces were not available. That way you're not wasting the physical abilities of the Astartes.

 

If so, what bearing does that have on the way that the Exonerators modify all of their novices upon graduation to the Scout Company so that they are always able to speak to their brethren over the vox network if they wish?

 

That just requires a master-vox hub.

 

but do we as a community think that the Dark Mechanicus would be the only ones to make use of something like linked minds?

 

Linked it what ways? We know the AdMech make use if Mind-Impulse Units, but I reckon they'd be extremely wary of linking human minds together. Any conservative factions would certainly hold a good deal of influence on this issue. They certainly could do it, but bear in mind that if you do this you would be taking the first steps on what could become a very dark path indeed.

[Apothete]

Yes, that could work. You would need to emphasise that these brothers would normally be granted the Emperor's Peace if these spaces were not available. That way you're not wasting the physical abilities of the Astartes.

 

I think I'll write that angle in on the next revision, but it seems to me like it would be more interesting and also more in line with the detestation of failure and weakness for their belief system to incorporate the idea that merely dying is less glorious than managing to become one of the entombed. It would be a dramatic break with the Cult Imperial, even moreso than what most Chapters do. Still, I think that the idea has some merit and would make for a further refinement of the ways in which I'm trying to have them stand apart.

 

What better way to emphasize that the Exonerators wish to serve, even beyond death?

 

That just requires a master-vox hub.

 

The equipment is a side concern, in this case.

 

What I'm more intersted in exploring is the possible consequence of having a Chapter which is always in communion with one another, able to speak and share information at a mere thought rather than searching one another out. That sort of mindset might be what would lead them to skirting (or even crossing) the line in terms of the gestalt, combining the justification of allowing their bodies to serve with a less physical application of the principle that puts more focus on the doctrinal, tactical, and historical knowledge of those who are too crippled to fight on unaided and too far gone to be a part of the active entombed.

 

I'm fairly certain that the rest of the galaxy would probably see any such beliefs as heretical and that other Astartes would probably be horrified at the thought of not properly honoring the dead, but the Exonerators would likely feel that they're just not dedicated enough to wish for unending duty.

 

Linked it what ways? We know the AdMech make use if Mind-Impulse Units, but I reckon they'd be extremely wary of linking human minds together. Any conservative factions would certainly hold a good deal of influence on this issue. They certainly could do it, but bear in mind that if you do this you would be taking the first steps on what could become a very dark path indeed.

 

Well, I was specifically bringing up the Tech Priests of Chaeronia and their not-quite-permanent arrangement when I mentioned examples, but I hadn't yet seen anything that was similar when I first posited the idea. Now that I've read something in-universe that deals with the possibility of linking together multiple conscious minds into a direct communion rather than using mindwiped servitors, I'm not as sure about the use of that part of my previous brainstorming.

 

Certainly, the more conservative Mechanicus would frown upon the possibility of using multiple fully aware human minds as cogitators, though they apparently have no problem with allowing single adpets to function in similar roles because of the creation of Lexmachanics and other specialists. What I was considering doing was less of a deliberate seeking of the state and more of an organic, gradually created situation where the Chapter would be faced with deciding how to handle those who are entombed but too far gone to be of us in war. They wouldn't necessarily be catatonic and unwaking, but even the best prepared and supported individuals will probably eventually succumb to the psychoses if not removed from duty or killed first. That then leads them to the possibility of attaching one or two to banks of cogitators and data crystal, attempting to learn as much as possible from tham out of respect to the Brothers' great age. Having some success with creating an unwieldly but still useful core of knowledge, they find that it becomes easier to access the material when the ones who have been added to the system are then allowed to share duties, easing into the situation rather than just deciding one day to create an organic computer out of Astartes.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

What I'm more intersted in exploring is the possible consequence of having a Chapter which is always in communion with one another, able to speak and share information at a mere thought rather than searching one another out.

 

Are we talking technological or psychic? Technology-wise, it's more than possible to have everyone connected up to the radio equivalent of an internet forum, and without any ethical concerns at all. Over great distances (inter-planetary at least) you'd start to encounter problems, and might have to turn to more esoteric solutions. In terms of Imperial reaction, I suspect the Puritan elements will revolt at the idea, given the Imperium's recent experiences with the Hive Mind. You can certainly do it, it's just a case of how far you want to go, and what consequences that will have. Unless, you take the vox route, that's not very far at all and doesn't have any consequences.

[Apothete]

Are we talking technological or psychic? Technology-wise, it's more than possible to have everyone connected up to the radio equivalent of an internet forum, and without any ethical concerns at all. Over great distances (inter-planetary at least) you'd start to encounter problems, and might have to turn to more esoteric solutions. In terms of Imperial reaction, I suspect the Puritan elements will revolt at the idea, given the Imperium's recent experiences with the Hive Mind. You can certainly do it, it's just a case of how far you want to go, and what consequences that will have. Unless, you take the vox route, that's not very far at all and doesn't have any consequences.

 

In a way, I think that we're actually discussing both a technological aspect of the issue and a more spiritual or doctrinal one. I'll try to address each point separately so that things remain clear, since these new ramifications of my existing work are still percolating in my head. The possible consequences lead in different directions and I know what seems interesting to me, but I'm sure that there are people here who can spot whether something goes too far or misses out on an important influence.

 

Going in reverse order, I think that I'll address the doctrinal influence before dealing directly with the technology. As I see it and as the most current (and unposted) revision has it, the Exonerators share Ferrus' extreme distaste for weakness and seek to remove any traces of it from themselves and the Imperium at large. That their focus has grown to include the mind and the ill-understood energies that it can tap into is a symptom of their greater deviation from the physically-perfecting Iron Hands, since they believe not only in what the Inquisition refers to as Polypsykana but also in service unending. The reverence which an Exonerator feels towards a particularly ancient Brother, especially a Dreadnought, stems partly from his understanding of the machine elements that have been incorporated but much more from the fact that he has managed to make himself useful in the eternal crusade that the Chapter pursues. Many other Astartes seem to think that a glorious death is something to be wished and that their destiny is to one day give their lives so that others can survive, but that seems short sighted and unambitious to my Marines. Instead, between the augmetics and entombings that allow them to continue where others would succumb, they seek to one day arrive at the final battle without having first summoned to the Emperor's side. Their belief is that devotion and will are what they need to survive the passing of aeons until they are called away from their current duties, hopefully having brought some portion of mankind in line with what they see as His vision for them.

 

Technologically speaking, the choice of Chapter-wide implants is as symbolic as it is practical. Each bionic connects the neophyte not only to the lineage of those who came before him, but also to the Brothers who will help forge him into one of their own and to the far future where the very best of the Exonerators will stand at the Emperor's side. Their innate vox network is a way to share information and remain in contact with one another, the targeter MIU to bring them into direct symbiosis with the war spirit of their weaponry, and the left hand as both an homage to their Primarch's magnificent transformation and a similarly evocative way to provide a strong, stable guide for their own guns. In a similar fashion, a Brother who can no longer stride the field of war may find new life in the roar of turbines and the tearing chatter of a Land Speeder's assault cannon, in the surge and shift of a warship maneuvering for the killing shot upon some heretical interloper that threatens the Chapter fleet, or in the crunch of treads and the familiar feel of weak shot ricocheting away from his armored sides as he bears his Brothers into the fray with the booming death of a demolisher cannon breaching anything in their way.

 

Some say that only in death does duty end. For the Exonerators, death is just another weakness to be conquered. There is no satisfaction in giving up your life while the enemies of mankind still gnaw at the underbelly of the Imperium. Instead, they seek any and all ways to continue to fight, even unto the end of their own humanity.

 

That's why I think that a gestalt computer created from the sarcophagi of those too disconnected for active duty is something which wouldn't be antithetical to the Chapter, why they might hide it from outsiders and even allies. Allowing a Brother to die isn't honoring his spirit, it's giving in to the weakness that every mortal shares. Live forever, serve forever - duty unending and without question or remorse. To fight decades or centuries and then fall, reborn to aid your Brothers and do His work, until you one day succumb to the ravages of time and surrender yourself to the great collective which is the true heart of the Conclave... Perhaps a neophyte wouldn't know that his end could be something so different from what the rest of humanity experiences, but an Exonerator veteran who was initiated into the oracular mysteries of a Prophet-Machine that remembers every battle, every victory and slight, and every mistake ever made by one of their own would most likely find the prospect of joining to be a communion devoutly to be wished. If the training cadre for a new Chapter sees it as a great honor to teach the ways to fresh minds, how much greater the prestige must it be to be chosen to one day lead those who share your own lineage?

 

Enough late-night rambling from me, I think. Hopefully that got some of my reasoning across clearly enough to be commented upon.

[Apothete]

I realize that only Tyrak and I have commented for a while and that there's a lot of material for a newcomer to the discussion to wade through, but I was wondering if anyone else has any input on the as-yet theoretical elements that have been brought up in this thread. I'm really looking for a reality check to see whether anyone but he or I have any strong opinions on the workability of what I've been considering adding to the writeup. Edited July 22, 2009 by Apothete

[Sigismund Himself]

Feedback, as promised :)

 

The enemies of man fear many things - the death of their bodies, the ruination of their schemes, the judgment of the Emperor. We are these and many more. Let them fear us most of all.

-Chaplain Horatius Venn, First Master of Sanctity

 

Reminds me of the old 3rd Edition quote. Perhaps the second and third sentences could be modified as well. "We are all of these and much more. Let them fear us above all else."

 

The newly founded Exonerators were intended to serve as an ever-mobile fleet based response to the constant threat posed by the Eye of Terror, charged with judging any world that fell to Chaos - or destroying it if necessary. In their hands would be the trying of whole peoples, the fate of planets resting upon their interpretation of events upon the surface. Only those worlds deemed sufficiently free of corruption would even be offered redemption, a responsibility that would lend both purpose and name to the new Chapter.

The first sentence seemingly goes on for a bit too long. And I think that judging is misused here. If a world has fallen to chaos, then you don't really judge it, to my mind. Instead of "whole peoples", I would use "whole populations". I don't know about the use of "sufficiently free of corruption". In the Imperium, the only way to be sufficiently free of corruption is to be totally free of corruption :huh:

 

The Emperor revealed to him that the Iron Hands had fallen astray of the true path, that their focus on physical frailty was blinding them to the true path of which He had planned for the people of the Imperium. While He applauded their desire to reach bodily perfection and to maintain the purity of the race, the true goal lay in unlocking the potential of the mind. This was why they would be so close to the Immaterium, why they would fight and die on both sides of the border of the Eye itself. The Exonerators were to seek a new kind of man, one who could be made strong enough to withstand the call of the Warp while turning it to his will. Wherever they strove with the Ruinous Powers, they would find those who had not bent their knees and bring them into the fold, creating a people who would be fit to serve when He rose from the Throne again.

I think that the vision is perhaps a bit too specific. Perhaps mention some of the imagery in the vision and then the Chaplain's interpretation of it. That way it sounds more natural than it currently does.

 

now under the watchful synthetic eyes of their primogenitors

Not sure on the use of synthetic, it kind of stuck out oddly when I read it.

 

... the Chapter took possession of the Unyielding Resolve, an enormous and ancient fortress-ship which was to be the center of their operations. As a balancing measure, the Exonerators possess no Battle Barges and would deploy exclusively from Strike Cruisers that have been fitted to support a single Forgelord and his Company. Over the ensuing years, several auxiliary vessels would be taken as prizes in fleet combat, with the largest of these retained and modified to become mining platforms, additional forges, and mobile repair yards or research laboratories, all of which are worked by Chapter serfs and Techmarines. In this spirit of autonomy, the Chapter would stand on its while inculcating the technically adroit warrior-smith mentality of their forebears.

One would ask why the Iron Hands gave up such a valuable artifact or if they get it from Mechanicus, a more likely scenario to my mind. The second sentence is a little weird because it changes tense and then changes back. Possibly change it to something like "As a balancing measure to the rare and powerful artifact they had already taken possession of, the rest of the chapter's initial fleet consisted solely of Strike Cruisers, an eccentricity which the chapter has held to." This is also the first time you mention Forgelords and we've got little idea of what they are. Not sure about having research labatories in the grimdark 41st millennium either. Astartes seem far more inclined to battlefield improvisation.

 

Centuries of warfare brought with them an attrition that whittled away the the training cadre of Iron Hands until none were left. It was perhaps this loss of immediate outside guidance that began to fork the younger Chapter away from their past, becoming ever more aggressive and growing an unslakable desire for archeotech. Though they had learned to revere the parts of the Codex Astartes that they deemed useful, the Exonerators had heeded the Iron Hands well and organized themselves as formally independent Companies, each lead by an officer who had shown not only brilliant tactical acumen but the approval of the Librarium and Reclusiam, giving rise to the ruling Conclave that oversaw the Chapter as a whole.

I think that a better phrase could be used instead of "none were left". Interesting use of the word "fork" here as well :D I would ask how they came to learn about the Codex Astartes at all, given their primogenitors seeming disregard for it. Perhaps this would be a good point to mention a tiny bit more about the council and its make-up, as well as here introducing the 'Forgelord' name for the Captain rank. Repetition of "the" in the first sentence.

 

Repeated engagements have bloodied the Chapter in deployments both fragmentary and full, though none quite so fervently prosecuted as their repeat ripostes to the whirlwind destruction of the Black Crusades. While any incursion from within the warp-cursed region of space they border upon immediately draws their attention, there is a special place within both of their hearts for the ravages of Abbadon and his Black Legion. Regardless of cost, the Exonerators have fought interventions and retaliatory strikes that have returned territory to the Imperium or disrupted the supply lines of the Ruinous Powers. This plain testament to victory and purity has staved off Inquisitorial scrutiny for their proximity to the Eye of Terror, though it is also the trait that nearly destroyed the Chapter in the greatest battle in their history, some thirty years ago.

First sentence probably needs an "are" between "none" and "quite". I think a better adjective could be used instead of 'whirlwind' as well. Makes the Black Crusades sound far too merry. Not sure on the use of the "special place in their hearts" in the second sentence. Could perhaps be better worded, it's a bit ambiguous at the moment.

 

The Price of Vigilance sidebar: Very cool idea, two thumbs up for it. Last paragraph, first sentence: I think 'contain' would work better instead of 'teach'. Not sure on what you're trying to say with the third sentence of this paragraph as well.

 

The closing notes of these accounts state only that further messages warn the Deparmento Munitorum to avoid the conflict due to moral threats present aboard the hulk, a list of ships claimed as casualties during the engagement, and delayed report that the threat had been contained and neutralized.

Not sure what is meant by "moral threats".

 

As is so often the case, the truth is much stranger. While using the sensor-deadening asteroids and highly volatile solar winds of the Asterope system to practice blind maneuvering and close support formations, the Exonerators were ambushed by a monstrous space hulk. Several Strike Cruisers and the majority of the secondary manufactorum fleet were destroyed in screening the Unyielding Resolve from the withering fire of the aggressor. What followed was a tense, desperate battle which cost the Chapter some two thirds of its number in boarding the foe and attempting to cripple their warp drives. The boarding teams achieved limited success but could not break through the incredibly heavy resistance. Seeing the bloody stalemate onboard the hulk, the remaining members of the Conclave ordered the unorthodox deployment of Exterminatus weaponry on the hulk. The rents punched in the hulks' armor by the opening volley afforded purchase for cyclonic torpedoes, scouring the blasphemous wreck clean and rupturing it into disintegrating fragments.

Space Hulks don't normally come equipped with a crew capable of firing guns or even with a lot of guns. Perhaps it would be better just to change it to a major Chaos fleet? Maybe a revenge strike by a Chaos Lord who had been thwarted by the chapter once too many times?

 

Monolithic and stately in its imposing bulk, the Unyielding Resolve of the Exonerators is too large to be classed with other Imperial vessels and too small to qualify as a true fortress-monastery. Within its massive hull are the immense forges and manufactorum that supply the war machines of the Chapter, along with the cloisters, flight decks, and other necessities of a Chapter that calls no one planet home. At its heart is the great Librarius Omnis, a chamber with the dual purpose of housing the collected knowledge of Brothers past and providing the meeting place of the Conclave.

Instead of "fortress monastery", did you mean "star fortress"? There's no set size for a fortress monastery but there is for the Ramilles star fortresses. Also, perhaps instead of "no one planet home", "no sole planet home"? Also, there is already a Librarius Omnis. Also, I've got little idea of what the Unyielding Resolve looks like. Perhaps you could make it a bit clearer for a poor confused critic whether it is ship-shaped or more like a star-fortress?

 

Unknown to those outside of the Chapter, for it has been millenia since any but a Brother or a trusted serf has trod the corridors, the wards of Apothecarion and the chapels of the Reclusiam are one and the same. Alongside the more typical services of Astartes warrior cults across the Imperium, the surgical augmentation and repair of a Brother is a rite of blessing in and of itself. The dual purpose of spiritual guidance and physical healing are tended to by the same Brothers, a specialist deviation from the Codex that also brings with it practical benefits.

Either go more detail into the role here and explain it fully or leave it until later. Don't have it in two places, it's a bit too much overlap. And "millenia"="millennia" for the first sentence.

 

Victories are not won with bolters, tanks, or even the virus bombs with which we may scour the unclean.

Do not waste thousands of rounds in winning the battle. Instead, fire the one shot that will win the war.

The quote appears a bit confused to me. There's two ideas and the second one sort of contradicts the first one.

 

While the exact composition of a given Forgelord's forces may vary, none field dedicated units of Devastators. Instead, heavy support is provided by Dreadnoughts or dedicated vehicles, ensuring that the larger weapons will be able to keep up with the blistering speed of an Exonerator strike. Unusually, the only Dreadnoughts equipped in full fire-support configurations are those who formerly served as the heavy weapons specialist within their squads. Any others maintain a symbolic nod to the Chapter's heraldry through retention of the massive Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon.

You'd think that Devastators would still prove useful when mounted and using such weapons as multi meltas, not to mention in defending positions. With the mention of the symbolic nod to the chapter's heraldry, I am left wondering what the chapter's symbol is :) This Combat Doctrine could also mention that mobility allows the chapter to strike better at their enemies' weaknesses.

 

If ever they have retreated, it is a shame so secret that none outside the Chapter have lived to tell of it. Whether this is a monument to their effectiveness or evidence of ruthless maintenance of their doctrines through violent cleansing of witnesses is uncertain, for only a Brother could testify and none will speak of the matter.

Love it, though I don't think that anything is needed after the word "uncertain".

 

Secluded and isolated from the Imperium in general, distrustful of the motivations and seemingly weak resolve of much of humanity, the Exonerators maintain a solitary existence even amongst their own kind whenever possible. Circumstance and the wisdom of the current Conclave have dictated that the Exonerators organize in a manner not unlike their forebears. The forces of the Chapter are arranged into eight independent Companies that function almost completely on their own, though casualties sometimes see the exact number within each one plummet sharply and dictate a furlough from deployment while recruits are schooled and wargear rebuilt.

No brotherhood with any of the other Astartes Praeses? And I got confused by the "Circumstances and the wisdom..." sentence. I thought that the Exonerators had always been organized like this?

 

Though clearly and obviously descended from the Tenth Legion and sharing their deep dedication to the preservation and expansion of technical knowledge, there are doctrinal differences in the cult of the Exonerators that would likely strain their relationship should they come to light. The greatest of these is the expansion of the fears of the Iron Hands, moving beyond the belief that the physical form may be corrupt and focusing even more tightly upon the development and protection of the mind itself. As the Scrutators reason, the corruption of a man cannot be complete without also winning his thoughts, and so they tend to thee body with all the fervor that would be expected of the children of Ferrus Manus while emphasizing the primacy of will over all. Strength of thought, strength of deeds, and strength of resolve, these are the ways that the Chapter shows its devotion to their Primarch, enhancing their bodies so that their consciousness may endure and that they may wage war on His enemies.

Don't need "clearly and obviously" both in the first sentence. I'd suggest cutting "obviously". Third sentence, you've got a '"thee" instead of "the".

 

In keeping with this tradition, every Battle Brother is expected to serve rotational terms of service within the forges and Artificer workshops, the Librarium, the Reclusiam, and the Apothecarion, and to maintain his own wargear to a standard more exacting than even the Codex demands. Additionally, a larger than normal tithe of Tech Adepts and Techmarines make the journey to Mars to undergo the initiation into the mysteries of the Adeptus Mechanicus, but they are fielded along with their brethren rather than closeted away, so that nearly every squad can boast the rust-red heraldry on at least one member.

You've just said that the Reclusiam and Apothecarion are the one and the same before. Having a techmarine in almost every squad needs to be explained a fair bit more. At first read, I thought "Wow, that's a lot of techmarines". It was only on the second time through that I remember the chapter was at 3 company strength. This might need to be emphasized nearby this section, so people don't go "What?". Not so sure on the maintaining wargear to a more exact standard than codex demands, to me that smacks a little of MISS.

 

It is because of this widespread belief that Brothers will often volunteer to be entombed, should one of the Dreadnoughts fall and no wounded veteran be ready to take his place.

Perhaps have the Scrutators choose replacements rather than volunteers?

 

Beliefs section needs a bit of refinement. I think you could transfer the Scrutator section to the bit you have in the Homeworld section currently and put most of the dreadnought information in a sidebar.

 

The influence of Ferrus Manus runs deep in them and manifests in exactly the same sort of behaviors and attitudes that are demonstrated by their forebears, though a new twist appears to be emerging since the Exonerators have begun recruiting from worlds within the Eye.

Recruiting within the Eye means recruiting from daemon worlds. Perhaps it would be better to say "worlds that withstand the warping presence of the Eye" or something like that. So you understand that the world is pure but has been influenced by the warp. You can easily improve on my wording though.

 

 

And now for some general feedback. I think that you need to mention a bit more of the chapter's history. You've only mentioned one battle and that happened 30 years ago. Haven't there been any more events that have shaped the history of the chapter? Aren't there any battles that provide good examples of their beliefs or style of battle? Aren't there any relationships worth mentioning with the other Praeses chapters? As always, this mentioning is good in moderation but right now the article is a total teetotaler. There's a few good places to do this, like the fifth paragraph of the article.

 

You need to explain how the Scrutators came into existence. Remember the Iron Hands have the Iron Fathers, a combination of Techmarine and chaplain. It's a fair bit of a switch and one that needs to be looked at in a bit more detail. Perfect chance for a sidebar or a paragraph in Origins.

 

The only bit of history that you've included is their disastrous lose. The only problem with it is that it takes up rather a lot of space and the only thing it does is reduce the chapter in numbers. I really didn't feel that it reinforced any of the chapter's themes. I'd advise giving it either less space in the article or trying to make it directly relevant to the themes of the chapter.

 

In summary, I really like the themes of the Exonerators. I just think that the IA needs a bit of a rearranging of mass. Some parts of the chapter seem a bit skinny, while others seem to have a bit too much information concentrated there.

[Dazzo]

What is their chapter symbol?

[Apothete]

Over a year ago, I started this project and it's still not done.

 

Draft fifteen is now up and there is no claim that it's even close to finished, but I wanted to incorporate some of Sigismund's criticism while I continue to look for ways to balance out the Origins section. Some notable differences are the changes to the Battle of Asterope, the explicit explanation of Scrutators and their origins, the addition of the gestalt-mind and entombed Brothers segments, the further explication and expansion of their beliefs, and hopefully a more coherent drive towards my overall vision for the Chapter.

 

Yes, it got longer, Octavulg. I know that Spider would be angry at me, but he'll have to wait until I can get everything to where it makes sense before I get too brutal with the cutting.

 

Eidt: Holy crap, I already had to edit it again. Dropcaps added in the last two sections.

Edited March 16, 2010 by Apothete

[Octavulg]

Ha! My multi-year IAs laugh at your puny one-year timespan!

 

Nice to see you getting back to it. :) I'll read it when I get a chance, for I have a LPC challenge to complete, an essay to rewrite, and schoolwork to poke at.

[Apothete]

No rush... It's not like it didn't take me eight months to finally address Sig's commentary.

 

I've had a lot of the idea I'm working into the writeup percolating for some time now, but not the motivation to just sit down and try to fold them into the already looming wall of text. There's also been a lot of experimentation on the painter utility, trying to find a color scheme that wouldn't have you dragging me over the coals while still sticking to the dark-purple-and-contrast visual theme. There's a not very subtle nod to their primarch included now, as well.

 

There are going to be problems in this draft. I know there will be, but my writing tends to be better when I let other people pore over it. That's especially true when I did the bulk of the heavy lifting between midnight and roughly four this morning.

[Walter Payton]

You are quite the perfectionist Mr Apothete! I love it, puts my own stuff to shame.

[Apothete]

You are quite the perfectionist Mr Apothete!

 

You have no idea.

 

Thanks for the kind words.

[Telveryon]

I reread the article and, as always, it makes for a very good read.

 

I must admit that there are a few sentences where I didn't get the the gist of it (please don't ask me to point them out to you as I'd have to reread the whole thing and you mus admit it's a pretty big article).

 

There nit picks that I'd like to point out. Firstly, it would be most wise to put the Gene-seed section before the Combat Doctrine as you reference the constant communication in the latter section yet you explain it only at the end of the article in the former. Also, this constant communication could be developed eve more. Maybe it could have a side effect of suppressing individuality within a company or ever the chapter as a whole.

 

Lastly there is the "30 years ago" without a point of reference... I don't know why, but it bothers the hell out of me.

[Apothete]

I reread the article and, as always, it makes for a very good read.

 

Oh great, more compliments... What I need is a good beatdown.

 

I must admit that there are a few sentences where I didn't get the the gist of it (please don't ask me to point them out to you as I'd have to reread the whole thing and you mus admit it's a pretty big article).

 

Sometimes, when I go back and read, I'm not entirely sure what I was getting at. I wish I could claim that the muse doesn't just stick her boot on my neck and a bolter to my temple until she's done with me, but that's basically the truth. When it's time to write, the words seem to come from somewhere just a little further in than my brain should be.

 

This is still most definitely a work in progress, because I'm still not happy with it. I know there's more to be done, clarified, expanded upon, and polished up, but part of posting the drafts as I write them is finding out just which pieces made sense to me but puzzle the hell out of others.

 

There nit picks that I'd like to point out. Firstly, it would be most wise to put the Gene-seed section before the Combat Doctrine as you reference the constant communication in the latter section yet you explain it only at the end of the article in the former. Also, this constant communication could be developed eve more. Maybe it could have a side effect of suppressing individuality within a company or ever the chapter as a whole.

 

There's currently a war in my head over this very point.

 

As the conversation earlier in this thread might indicate, I'm trying to decide just how far the gestalt mind goes. I know that the Exonerators have a pervasive personal vox network and integral MIU, along with their more standard bionics, which means that they're probably getting a deeper psychodoctrination than most because the machine ghosts could probably actually get inside of their heads to one degree or another. They're always in contact with one another so long as they're not separated by too much distance, sharing observations, devotionals, and even conversation and the contradictory human comfort of contact with another sentient being who shares your species.

 

The focus upon the mind presents a problem, because it belies the subtle blending that would surely happen in a society with so few barriers to commingling, and yet it's one of the pillars of their beliefs. It's definitely the reason that the Exonerators not only accept but actively create living cogitators and servitors that aren't mind-wiped, employing the dead flesh of their otherwise crippled bodies to create ways for the diminished husk to continue its service once the mind has ascended to join the ranks of those who've already been copied into the collective memory.

 

Lastly there is the "30 years ago" without a point of reference... I don't know why, but it bothers the hell out of me.

 

The exact current year isn't really known, is it? As such, I didn't really want to nail that down.

 

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to assign a date that's close to thirty years before the turn of the millenium.

[Ferrus Manus]

I'll give it a read through tonight, I doubt there will be much to criticise. ;)

[Apothete]

I'll give it a read through tonight, I doubt there will be much to criticise. ;)

 

 

Argh!

 

Compliments!

[Ferrus Manus]

It was Venn who urged Talos to found the Scrutators and create the layers of secrecy and initiation that would later shape the course of events,

I'm confused, who are the Scrutators? They haven't been mentioned beforehand, maybe just add in a short sentence to give a quick explanation that can be built on in other sections.

This august body was composed of the Captain of each company or his designated representative, the Scrutator responsible for its moral and physical wellbeing,

Same as above. - It's not until the Homeworld section I find out about them.

Two Strike Cruisers and the majority of the secondary manufactorum fleet were destroyed in screening the Unyielding Resolve from the withering fire of the aggressor.

I'm guessing you just missed it, but unlike the rest of the article 'Unyielding Resolve' isn't in italics.

 

++++++

 

That's all I had an issue with, small issue at that. It really is a great piece :ph34r:

[Telveryon]

Oh great, more compliments... What I need is a good beatdown.

Sorry Apothete, but you'll have to endure those compliments because we can't beat down something that's unbeatable.

 

There's currently a war in my head over this very point.

 

As the conversation earlier in this thread might indicate, I'm trying to decide just how far the gestalt mind goes. I know that the Exonerators have a pervasive personal vox network and integral MIU, along with their more standard bionics, which means that they're probably getting a deeper psychodoctrination than most because the machine ghosts could probably actually get inside of their heads to one degree or another. They're always in contact with one another so long as they're not separated by too much distance, sharing observations, devotionals, and even conversation and the contradictory human comfort of contact with another sentient being who shares your species.

 

The focus upon the mind presents a problem, because it belies the subtle blending that would surely happen in a society with so few barriers to commingling, and yet it's one of the pillars of their beliefs. It's definitely the reason that the Exonerators not only accept but actively create living cogitators and servitors that aren't mind-wiped, employing the dead flesh of their otherwise crippled bodies to create ways for the diminished husk to continue its service once the mind has ascended to join the ranks of those who've already been copied into the collective memory.

I missed the previous conversation... Sorry about that.

 

Strong minds and gestalt consciousness aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. The one way I see this working is by using the gestalt consciousness as a form of test of character. Those with strong minds would learn to master the consciousness while those who's minds aren't strong enough would become subservient to it. Those who master the consciousness could become veterans, sergeants and so on while the weaker willed would be stuck as simple battlebrothers.

 

The exact current year isn't really known, is it? As such, I didn't really want to nail that down.

 

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to assign a date that's close to thirty years before the turn of the millenium.

That would be wise. If you really don't want to set a granite tight date you could simple say that the battle took place 30 years before the turn of the millenium.

[Wolfbiter]

@Apothete,

 

I didn't find any other mention of this after a search so...

 

...just wanted to mention that 'Talos' is also the name of the main Night Lords character in Aaron Dembski-Bowden's "Soul Hunter" novel, and might cause some confusion for readers. It's a recent 40K novel, and I noticed it because I'm reading the book for the second time. ;)

 

I will come back when I have more time and do a more thorough read-through of your article this weekend. Just wanted to mention something I noticed right away.

 

(However, if someone did mention this already and I missed it, my sincere apologies.)

[Walter Payton]

I look at this thing and I see perfection. As such, I am going to stop commenting or reading or acknowledging its existence because it makes me feel woefully inadequate. :D

[Apothete]

Ferrus Manus:

 

I'm confused, who are the Scrutators? They haven't been mentioned beforehand, maybe just add in a short sentence to give a quick explanation that can be built on in other sections.

 

The Scrutators, to the best of my knowledge, are something unique to my Chapter and an idea which I am trying to develop without becoming too MISS in the process. They fulfill most of the traditional role of Chaplains in that they are responsible for spiritual and mental wellbeing, keeping an eye upon the Chapter as a whole, and inspiring their brethren upon the field of battle. At the same time, they are also expected to fulfil at least part of the duties of an Apothecary, tending to the wounds of those who are struck down in battle, maintaining the relatively large number of augmetic enhancements born by the Brothers, reclaiming the geneseed if a Brother falls before his second progenoid has been harvested, and screening, conditioning, and cybernetically enhancing the initiates.

 

However, they also serve an additional function due the combination of these roles. Their unique combination of talents makes them adept at reading others, affording an insight which leads to the name of their order. They are interrogators and torturers, judges and executioners, and the final word when it comes to the purity of those they come across. The Exonerators believe that everyone should live as if they might die in the next moment, perpetually ready to face the role that the Emperor demands of his subjects. This is the freedom that they are seeking to bring to the galaxy, the freedom to face the consequences of one's actions and to become what should be rather than what we might want to be.

 

I'm guessing you just missed it, but unlike the rest of the article 'Unyielding Resolve' isn't in italics.

 

Indeed.

 

Telveryon:

 

Sorry Apothete, but you'll have to endure those compliments because we can't beat down something that's unbeatable.

 

You just didn't bring a big enough stick, then.

 

Strong minds and gestalt consciousness aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. The one way I see this working is by using the gestalt consciousness as a form of test of character. Those with strong minds would learn to master the consciousness while those who's minds aren't strong enough would become subservient to it. Those who master the consciousness could become veterans, sergeants and so on while the weaker willed would be stuck as simple battlebrothers.

 

Actually, I think that a modified version of this will likely find its way into the next revision.

 

Rather than break the Chapter into veterans and line troopers, I think that the Chapter would likely shunt away those who cannot face a trial by ordeal that has them face the machine ghosts. Not for them the great honor of serving in the Scouts, and most definitely not the Battle Companies... Still, for having the mettle and drive to make it so far into the process, they must have a place and a purpose, and that could easily be working in the laboratories and manufactorum, manning the fleet, and perhaps even forming a sort of mini-PDF for defense of the star fortress and some of the non-Astartes ships that they possess.

 

Wolfbiter:

 

...just wanted to mention that 'Talos' is also the name of the main Night Lords character in Aaron Dembski-Bowden's "Soul Hunter" novel, and might cause some confusion for readers. It's a recent 40K novel, and I noticed it because I'm reading the book for the second time.

 

I knew that A D-B showing up on the board would be trouble...

 

Sadly, I didn't know that and I'm not sure what other name I could use that would have similar connotations, since the mythical figure is a giant man of brass who protected the island of Crete. That he'd been forged by Hephaestus is merely icing on the cake.

 

I look at this thing and I see perfection. As such, I am going to stop commenting or reading or acknowledging its existence because it makes me feel woefully inadequate.

 

Nothing is perfect. There has to be something I've done which you can critique.

[Octavulg]

Torture/interrogation is done in the Apothecarion, actually. At least in RT by the Space Wolves. So the Scrutator's'd be a natural enough evolution.

 

In regard to Talos - name him after an ABC Warrior instead? Deathlock'd seem appropriate, somehow. ;)

 

Talo Deathlock. It has a ring to it.

[Apothete]

Torture/interrogation is done in the Apothecarion, actually. At least in RT by the Space Wolves. So the Scrutator's'd be a natural enough evolution.

 

It's done in the Apothecarion/Reclusiam hybrid in the Exonerators, which is good enough for me.

 

In regard to Talos - name him after an ABC Warrior instead? Deathlock'd seem appropriate, somehow. ;)

 

Talo Deathlock. It has a ring to it.

 

Congratulations, I am now imagining Nathan Explosion as a Space Marine.

[Sigismund Himself]

Good to see you back Apothete :) These guys look even better than last time I had a look.

 

Given the desperation of the garrison forces and the magnitude of danger, it was decided that swift but potentially overzealous response was to be far preferred to allowing the slow creep of corruption from within that blighted space.

Response needs to become plural or an 'a' inserted before swift for grammar's sake.

 

From doctrine to dogma, every facet of their development was informed by the inexorable taskmaster who was to become their first Chapter Master, an Iron Father by the name of Talos.

It's not really normal (to my mind anyway) to appoint a Chaplain/Techmarine hybrid in command of the new chapter rather than a Captain who has centuries of battlefield command experience. I think you're point is not diluted in anyway by making him a Clan Commander/Captain/Taskforce Commander of the Iron Hands.

 

 

I think another word could be used instead of 'informed' as well, mainly because it sounds a little odd/weak.

 

Beginning without the sizeable body of chapter serfs that would be necessary to support the young Chapter so far from forge worlds, the Cult of Mars enacted pacts of mutual trust with Talos. In exchange for the protection of the auxiliaries and a return of their investment upon reaching full strength, along with certain promises of expeditionary excursions to recover important research, the Exonerators would possess the finest armaments and be trained in their creation so that they might continue once Adeptus support was withdrawn.

I don't know why they wouldn't start off with the serfs. Would also switch 'Adeptus' for 'Mechanicus' to avoid confusion with the Adeptus Astartes.

 

...and tended by serfs and Brothers of unimpeachable loyalty.

This is unneeded really.

 

..until none were left, not even Talos or Venn

Could be reworded to something along the lines of 'until even Talos had met his end' for conciseness and better flow.

 

t was perhaps this loss of immediate outside guidance that began to steer the younger Chapter away from their past, becoming ever more aggressive and growing an unslakable desire for archeotech. With no regard for their cousins far across the galactic plane or the greatly revered treatise which they honored, the Exonerators had organized themselves as formally independent Companies, each lead by an officer who had shown not only brilliant tactical acumen but the approval of the Librarium and Reclusiam, giving rise to the ruling Conclave that oversaw the Chapter as a whole.

To me, this is actually steering the chapter towards their past (as in towards the Iron Hands). I personally would have thought this structure would have already been put into place by Talos as it matches the Iron Hands organisation he is familiar with and probably a believer in. So did they start off codex?

 

A string of campaigns waged in the darkness of far space, lit by the balefire of the Immaterium bleeding into reality, would hone the edge of their purpose and bring a steady stream of new recruits into the fold.

The tense in this sentence was bothering me, even though it was probably correct.

 

Many of the actions fought by the Exonerators are recorded in no Imperial record, wars waged at the most extreme borders of that hellish realm - some of the more secret ones even driving beyond.

First sentence reads a little oddly to me, would work better with 'are not recorded' IMO. I think 'clandestine' might work well instead of secret as well as removing the 'ones'.

 

The Exonerators would drop into the midst of the fiercest fighting, striking out at any who sought to deny them, only to leave with youths who suited their purposes. War itself seemed of little concern to them, so long as the populace turned their faces from the Ruinous Powers. Conflict after conflict, battle after battle, Unyielding Resolve would constantly move through the distant reaches of Segmentum Scarum, crushing resistance regardless of the cost in lives.

This section is a little confusing, mostly the bolded part. You say they only swoop in to get the kids and then you say they crush resistance. Might just be my brain at 8:30 at night though.

 

The purified wreckage serves as testament that even those who deny Him serve His will in the end.

You've mentioned it only came from the hulls of the Exonerator's own fleet, so this part read a little odd to me in terms of purification and how it exactly makes the point that you'll end up doing the Emperor's Will in the end (you can ignore that if it's just to get the cool quote in ;) ).

 

That terrible conflict, the Battle for Asterope, is a thing of legend within the Exonerator ranks, though few aside from a handful of souls in Scarum Sector Command know the truth. Fragmentary accounts point to terse demands for assistance transmitted from within the 21-22 Tauri cluster, reporting the sudden warp translation of a badly battered Chaos fleet during maneuvers conducted by the Chapter in what was assumed to be a previously uninhabited star system. The closing notes of these accounts state only that further messages warn the Deparmento Munitorum to avoid the conflict due to an extreme moral threat, a list of ships claimed as casualties during the engagement, and delayed report that the interlopers had been contained and neutralized. Attempts to gather further information were rebuked with only the curtest replies that the situation was under control.

 

As is so often the case, the truth is much stranger. While using the sensor-deadening asteroids and highly volatile solar winds of the Asterope system to practice blind maneuvering and close support formations, the Exonerators were set upon by several traitor ships lead by a hulking ship of unknown provenance. Two Strike Cruisers and the majority of the secondary manufactorum fleet were destroyed in screening the Unyielding Resolve from the withering fire of the aggressor. What followed was a tense, desperate battle which cost the Chapter nearly half of its number in boarding the foes and attempting to cripple their warp drives. The boarding teams achieved limited success but could not break through the incredibly heavy resistance aboard the enemy flagship. Seeing the bloody stalemate, the remaining members of the Conclave ordered the unorthodox deployment of an impromptu Exterminatus strike. The rents punched by the opening volley afforded purchase for cyclonic torpedoes, scouring the blasphemous wreck clean and rupturing it into disintegrating fragments.

 

At the end of the battle, the remainder of the fleet consisted mostly of elements of the command structure and supporting units, a few largely emptied Strike Cruisers, a handful of the support ships, and the Brothers who had been ordered to remain in order to repel the very real threat of counter-boarders. All told, barely enough Marines survived to complete five Companies, three of whom were deployed outside of the Asterope system and had missed the conflict entirely.

This section doesn't read well. For one, I think it misses a lot of the emotional impact that losing so many marines should. There's a bit too much extraneous detail that makes the actual point of the section, the losing of a great portion of the fleet and chapter, very diluted. We need to get a bit more inside their heads here.

 

I also wondered about their participation, if any, in the repelling of the 13th Black Crusade due to this section.

 

...wouldn't find a separate Reclusiam and Apotheacarion, instead finding the domain of the Scrutators.

Wording could be improved here IMO but I'm drawing a blank on inspiration at the moment.

 

Though they maintain cooly civil ties..

Not sure 'coolly' is the best choice of word here.

 

Most certainly, the mainline Mechanicus would be aghast should it come to light that the Chapter has been creating entities that are more man than biological cogitator, giving new life to those too wounded to fight on.

Perhaps replace 'mainline' with 'majority of the Mechanicus'.

 

Many Astartes Chapters make use of teaching engines in order to indoctrinate their initiates, relying upon ancient technology to impart the knowledge, beliefs, and conditioning necessary to turn a mere human into the protean heroes that might emerge with proper guidance. The Exonerators have found a way to reverse the process utilizing archeotech that had been buried within the Unyielding Resolve, adding directly to the vast store of experience through imperfectly copying the minds of their greatest luminaries when upon the threshold of death or the decline of entombment. In this way, they may honor a fallen Brother's true self while repurposing his flesh, the useless and weaker shell that may be turned to serving roles that are traditionally filled by servitors or Tech Adepts - gunners, pilots, vehicle and ship crews.

Interesting concept but I think that it hasn't been given enough space in the article. There's possibly too many ideas with the inclusion of this but I think that you could get it to work. The details of it are just a touch too vague for my understanding (although it's hard to balance between giving me a run down of how the machine data crystals interact with the right cortex and just saying "It does this. What more do you need to know?", I think it's just a little too far in the latter).

 

in exchange for limited immortality...

I fear 'limited immortality' may be a bit of an oxymoron.

 

Why aren't Techmarines included in the Council, given the chapter's obsession with archeotech?

 

Given their focus on mind over matter, do they ever try to make chaos corrupted humans repent and turn back to the Emperor? I realise this might be treading a bit close to the Dark Angels but it was a point that I thought of as I was reading through

 

The parts about the 'Great Plan' and 'Inner Circle' were rather confusing to me as I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve with the mentions.

 

I'd remove the bolded subheaders in the latter sections as I'm not sure they really fit in the IA format.

 

I do love the wording in this IA, there's some superb phrases in there :) The only problem is really with the length. I think that the same amount of detail could be put in less words, especially in the Origins section. Some of the latter sections should also be looked at and see if you can shorten some of the sections or sprinkle the mentions throughout the rest of the article. I think there's room for one more sidebar in the article, perhaps you could put some of that in there? Don't make Octavulg drag out that Spider quote again :)

 

And finally we're still waiting on that Chapter Symbol ;)

Edited March 20, 2010 by Sigismund Himself

[Apothete]

Siggy, Siggy, Siggy, can't you see... Sometimes your words just hypnotise me...

 

Ahem.

 

Sorry.

 

Good to see you back Apothete. These guys look even better than last time I had a look.

 

Well, I'm glad that I'm not just sliding back downhill.

 

It's not really normal (to my mind anyway) to appoint a Chaplain/Techmarine hybrid in command of the new chapter rather than a Captain who has centuries of battlefield command experience. I think you're point is not diluted in anyway by making him a Clan Commander/Captain/Taskforce Commander of the Iron Hands.

 

Why would choosing an Iron Father be any stranger than picking a regular Chaplain, which has been done in several DIY articles, or a veteran Sergeant? There's nothing which states that such a man couldn't be the tactical equal of his peers and he would bring with him valuable knowledge that will benefit the new Chapter in many ways. Given the direction in which I wanted the Exonerators to go, having an Iron Father leading them seems to make more sense than a Captain. I couldn't even find mention of Captains in the Iron Hands own Index Astartes, though that could be buried in the Codex-but-not-really portion.

 

I don't know why they wouldn't start off with the serfs. Would also switch 'Adeptus' for 'Mechanicus' to avoid confusion with the Adeptus Astartes.

 

The Iron Hands Clan Companies are independent, a trait which my Chapter shares, but I'm not sure that they could spare the talents necessary in number sufficient to create a whole new supporting body for the fledglings. Since both the progenitor and the child have strong ties to the AdMech, it seems fitting that a temporary alliance would see additional help in the form of techpriests, servitors, and so on. Then, as their own ranks swell and this additional help is no longer needed, the Mechanicus can withdraw its own people if it so desires or leave them in place if the relationship is lucrative (read: brings in lost technology from the Eye).

 

To me, this is actually steering the chapter towards their past (as in towards the Iron Hands). I personally would have thought this structure would have already been put into place by Talos as it matches the Iron Hands organisation he is familiar with and probably a believer in. So did they start off codex?

 

It might be an artifact from previous drafts, but the feel that I was aiming for was one where the Exonerators had adopted an overall organization similar to the Clan Companies that Venn and Talos would have known, with important changes like the Scrutators, the unified novitiate that's based on their star fortress (Clan Companies have no single base and each maintain their own novices), and a less acrimonious relationship between the individual Companies which could probably be tied to their Chapter-wide continuous communication through the implanted vox network.

 

This section is a little confusing, mostly the bolded part. You say they only swoop in to get the kids and then you say they crush resistance. Might just be my brain at 8:30 at night though.

 

Well, like I said before, this is the kind of criticism I need. My intentions are pretty clear to me but I'm trying to strike a balance between clubbing people over the head with overstating things and being subtle enough to allow interpretation. The guide for my tone right now is an attempt to leave just enough wiggle room that things could be read several ways, even though there is a correct answer from my end of things.

 

Basically, I'm trying to see if I can write like the Games Studio IAs.

 

The best explanation I can give right now is to say that it's not so much the war which concerns them when they reach a conflict as it is the status of the people involved. If they're debased heretics who welcome the Ruinous Powers, then they're going to be purged mercilessly and sent to whatever judgement might await. Contrarily, if they're fighting for their lives and seem relatively free of taint, the Exonerators will step in and help them win their particular war, take a tithe of the best of their children, and then leave the rest to fend for themselves after having exhorted and perhaps threatened them into pursuing righteousness and purity.

 

You've mentioned it only came from the hulls of the Exonerator's own fleet, so this part read a little odd to me in terms of purification and how it exactly makes the point that you'll end up doing the Emperor's Will in the end (you can ignore that if it's just to get the cool quote in

 

It's meant in the spirit that the smelted hull fragments will make any Exonerator who looks at them remember the battle, and remembering the battle reminds them of Brothers who died doing just what they try to make anyone else do - being ready and able to face your final fate at any time. The boarding teams weren't strong enough to achieve their objectives and so they died willingly, since they at least could face their end unflinchingly and preventing harm to the fleet and the rest of the Imperium. Though they failed in their primary task, they were strong enough of mind and limb to hold the traitors until the Exterminatus could be delivered.

 

Plus, it's a cool quote.

 

This section doesn't read well. For one, I think it misses a lot of the emotional impact that losing so many marines should. There's a bit too much extraneous detail that makes the actual point of the section, the losing of a great portion of the fleet and chapter, very diluted. We need to get a bit more inside their heads here.

 

I also wondered about their participation, if any, in the repelling of the 13th Black Crusade due to this section.

 

That section is where I am slowly giving up on having the detailed description of Asterope, gritting my teeth the entire way. You probably didn't read the earliest drafts where there was a planetfall and dealing with a subterranean culture on world that's got next to no protection from enormously high solar radiation.

 

Rest assured, it's on the block for revision on my next pass.

 

Wording could be improved here IMO but I'm drawing a blank on inspiration at the moment.

 

Well, I could always spell Apothecarion correctly... That'd be an improvement.

 

Interesting concept but I think that it hasn't been given enough space in the article. There's possibly too many ideas with the inclusion of this but I think that you could get it to work. The details of it are just a touch too vague for my understanding (although it's hard to balance between giving me a run down of how the machine data crystals interact with the right cortex and just saying "It does this. What more do you need to know?", I think it's just a little too far in the latter).

 

Yeah, I know.

 

This has become one of the core concepts of the Chapter in the last few months, something which I am desperate to get just the right balance on. It's got so much potential to be awesome, yet it can be MISSed to death. I'm working on finding a way to incorporate it further and explain it in greater detail without just giving everything away or turning it into a crutch.

 

Why aren't Techmarines included in the Council, given the chapter's obsession with archeotech?

 

Because, unlike the Exonerators, I'm not always strong of mind.

 

Given their focus on mind over matter, do they ever try to make chaos corrupted humans repent and turn back to the Emperor? I realise this might be treading a bit close to the Dark Angels but it was a point that I thought of as I was reading through

 

I'm glad that implication came through without being too in-your-face.

 

Yes, they do. In fact, they deliberately recruit close to and sometimes inside the Eye of Terror, partly out of their assigned duty and partly because of their belief in the Gethesmenite apotheosis of man. They're actively seeking psykers and the warp-touched populations seem like as good a place as any to do that.

 

The only problem is really with the length. I think that the same amount of detail could be put in less words, especially in the Origins section. Some of the latter sections should also be looked at and see if you can shorten some of the sections or sprinkle the mentions throughout the rest of the article. I think there's room for one more sidebar in the article, perhaps you could put some of that in there? Don't make Octavulg drag out that Spider quote again

 

Oh, I know. That's why I specifically mentioned Spider when I posted the latest revisions.

 

For the time being, I've given up on paring down until I can straighten out some of these issues, and then I'll go back and brutally murder my writing.