Opinion on Blood Claws

[Farcry]

Greetings all. Having only recently been inducted into the brotherhood of the Spacewolves I seek advice on Blood Claws.

 

My question is simply this.

 

Jump packs or foot troops mounted in rhino's?

 

I understand that both are a viable choice but now that Im in the company of more experienced brothers I was hoping for opinions and guidance as to which is the most effective and value for points.

[Focslain]

Mounted in a transport, the jumppack ones are too expensive now-a-days to be wholely effective unless your looking to fill in in points in larger games.

[muzzyman1981]

Honestly I wouldn't even put them in a Rhino as they work ok but really are most effective in large packs (i.e Land Raider with leader)....they are assault troops get in and assault with them =P

 

That is assuming they can take a Rhino in the first place as I don't have my rulebook on me....got left at work on accident.

[Inquisitor 117]

I agree with Muzzyman. if your gonna take a transport, Take a Land Raider Crusader and "Raider Rush". You want thier massive amounts of attacks up there quickly.

 

Not to mention the possibility of 3 powerfists/Power Weapons hidden in the pack (+1 on a Wolf Guard leader, too). Or go all out and Drop Pod into your opponents Deployment Zone and watch him sweat at the sight of that many Powerfists bearing down on his rear armor... :)

[Focslain]

That is assuming they can take a Rhino in the first place as I don't have my rulebook on me....got left at work on accident.

 

They have that transport option. and the FAQ added Drop pods as well I believe.

[WG Vrox]

I think we would see more JP BC out there if they counted as troops, their expense and not being able to hold objectives is to many wasted points. First time you get caught in the open with a TL star cannon or Vindi you will feel the same. I plan to build some in the near future, but only for their look and larger games.

 

I have had the most success running them with a RP on a bike providing SC cover. I keep this unit in front or behind a Vindi. A LRC, when it works it really works well and for pure die rolling action is always fun.

 

In a DP with again a RP. They are great bait to lure the enemy closer or as a Defensive Block. Charging or counter-charging, it makes no difference with these guys. I suggest in this senerio you have a WG with PF/SS and the RP with a TH and SS. They have great staying power.

 

WG Vrox

[TAVAAR]

They can take Rhino's and DP's. DP's really aren't their thing though. They get one turn of shooting (at BS 3) and then get shot to death in turn. They are better off in Rhino's, but I usually reserve Rhino's for my GH. Foot slogging is the way to go with BC's IMO.

 

Unless your playing a big game (2k+) LR's are a big point sink just for one unit as your paying a premium for armored transport, not firepower. For the points you can field 3 units with 6 PF between the three in Rhino's. Now with smoke that's a better bet, cheaper, and MORE PF's!

 

I've tried just about every combination and this is what I've found:

 

DP's - Wast of 30pts because of BS 3 and no assaulting the turn they arrive.

 

Bikes - Too Expensive, not to mention they loose the base attack of 2 so its 3 on the charge, not big for the PF but for the rest, it hurts, big.

 

JP's - they can use terrain better, bring a better tactical advantage to maneuvering, but again, too expensive

 

LR's - expensive for what you get, very effective when it works, but it dies quick to a lot of armies now with all the MM and MG's running around

 

Rhino's - handy, effective, cheap, adds that maneuvering and speed for tactics. But you cant assault out of it.

 

Foot Slogging - use cover, cheapest way to go, but slower (however this does allow them to be that "threat to be dealt with first" because of how many you can through down and thus soak firepower up. When used correctly with cover, shooting that much at "just" BC's turns it from other things. Its surprising how much this will buy you tactic-wise if your opponent knows a bout 4 Atks on the charge, they'll often throw 1k pts per turn just to kill* a sqaud (*as they're in cover).

[Beef]

forget foot slogging to slow and BC can get shot up, Forget landraiders or LRC to expensive. Use Rhino's cheap and chearful just have extra armour and smoke launchers

[G. A. K.]

I've always liked them in rhinos to protect them from shooting (or the Lash). I try to use two squads, one in a rhino the other on foot with the RP on a bike, the run rule lets them get around a little faster.

Jump packs can be useful as tank hunters, three guys with one or two fists and a melta isn't too expensive but is basically a throw away squad (scouts do the job for less as four guys with a melta is only 66pts!!).

Raiders are great fun and can be hard to deal with but are by no means invulnerable to shooting. I would see how your style fits your options, as not every game will allow you to get enough troops on the field if your spending close to 300pts on one tank when a 35pt rhino could do the job. BTW remember that Extra Armor isn't as cheap as it was so don't be afraid to leave the thick plates (maybe dozers too) at home to free up points, you still get the smoke and light for free :wub: .

 

G

[Logain the Ranger]

I always run my claws, but to be fair if I had Rhinos I would put them in there. Anyway BCs will get shot, that's why I have a RP to protect them.

[Vash113]

Personally I just run them. Two big squads of 15 with Wolf Guard Pack Leaders for their leadership and a Rune Priest to give the front squad a save are the first wave of my infantry, backed up by 36 Grey Hunters and 10 Wolf Guard with fire support from a pack of Long Fangs and a Wolf Guard Terminator Squad and Venerable Dreadnaught. A veritable wave of Power Armor with over a dozen Power Weapons and Fists mixed in not counting the Terminators. Just try to shoot them all :wub:.

 

I know it may not be the smartest idea ever, but boy is it fun.

[Ullr Direfang]

i would say like every one else, mostly, rhinos.... best for price wise, then LRs, then bikes, then DP.

 

the only reason i put bikes before drop pods is because they get the extra toughness. it isn't much but if they turbo boost, having to roll higher to wound and a 3+ cover save can make a difference.

[Ranulf_Nightrunner]

I always run my claws, but to be fair if I had Rhinos I would put them in there. Anyway BCs will get shot, that's why I have a RP to protect them.

 

They're the lowest level of Space Wolf, they should walk ;)

[G. A. K.]

maybe the lowest costing, but in my army they hold a valued place as the hammer of my lists.

[Greyshift]

I've just written a 1500 pt list (in the army list section) with 11BCs and a WP in a DP and was wondering what the problem is with DPs?

 

True they can't assault out of them but neither can they assault out of rhinos which puts them on a par for me - although i'm admittedly lacking a lot of experience...

 

The only advantage i can see is that they can be used as taxis if they survive the first couple of turns, can anyone enlighten me?!

[Vassakov]

13, 2 Fists and a Power Weapon, a Power Weapon on a pack leader and a Wolf Priest/WGBL, mounted in a Crusader.

 

There is almost nothing that withstands that sort of fury.

[Ranulf_Nightrunner]

maybe the lowest costing, but in my army they hold a valued place as the hammer of my lists.

 

Very true, But i prefer to play it as fluffy as possible, the Land Raider is reserved for the Wolf lord and his bodyguard :)

[Ullr Direfang]

I've just written a 1500 pt list (in the army list section) with 11BCs and a WP in a DP and was wondering what the problem is with DPs?

 

True they can't assault out of them but neither can they assault out of rhinos which puts them on a par for me - although i'm admittedly lacking a lot of experience...

 

The only advantage i can see is that they can be used as taxis if they survive the first couple of turns, can anyone enlighten me?!

 

as i see it:

1) they are assault troops, like you said they can't assault.

2) low BS and short range, can't use their ranged weapons that well

3) rhino can taxi like you said

4)(mind you for this one i have really read much into the "new" drop pod rules) what if they don't come in...

 

if you run those 11 with PF and a melta that's around 200 points, i think..., the WP w/ pelt, and frags is another 99 and the 35 point DP, if they don't show up, that's around 335 points of 1500 that are gone. i understand that they don't show up rarely, but if they show up to late it could be just as bad. it is why i prefer to throw a shooty unit in them that still have some H2H skills. take for example:

10 GH w/ bolters, PW, PF, PG

WGPL w/ combie-plasma, PW, pelt

WP w/ pelt

DP

more expensive but can handle a lot. i have run this squad a few times and took down 2 devastator squads, and a tactical squad in one game, and way to many guard (i think a LRBT, hellhound, and around 3 or 4 squads of guys).

 

when i use my BCs in a all DP army i tend to bring 2 11 man squads, and drop one in the first wave and the other after that. hopefully the next turn to use them as support.

[Magnus Aurelius]

I use a squad of 11 BC with a flamer and 3 PF's, joined by my WGBL with a SS, FB, WP and FG, in a LRR. I truly and utterly love them. With the LRR i can get them wherever i want them to be, and this has won me games.

 

In all the games i've played with them, which should be about 25 or so, the LRR has survived most of those games, has only been immobilized once in the first turn of combat, and usualy when it is destroyed it is during turn 4-5. It has survived multiple shots and charges of fire dragons. It has survived being constantly shot at by a 3 las pred and a LR, not to mention surviving Avatar's, Assault termies, Marneus Calgar, Daemon Prince and Wraithlords.

 

In a last tounry where i used it, i came in 5th place, and only because my army wasnt painted. The guy who organised it said that if i had painted my army, i would have come in second place.

 

Mganus Aurelius

[Farcry]

Thanks for all your advice people its been muchly appreciated.

 

I think im going to dump my original school of thought and just mount a crap load of Blood Claws with character in a Land Raider.

 

A - You can assault out of it.

B - It is still a formidable tank not including its ability to ferry troops

C - It looks so damn cool.

 

May save the rhino's for my Grey Hunters.

 

Incidentally, I was contemplating the Redeemer as Im guessing the tournament I will soon be playing in will be swamped with other marines and to a marine the Flamestorm cannon is firey death in the bucket load.

[Greyshift]

as i see it:

1) they are assault troops, like you said they can't assault.

2) low BS and short range, can't use their ranged weapons that well

3) rhino can taxi like you said

4)(mind you for this one i have really read much into the "new" drop pod rules) what if they don't come in...

 

if you run those 11 with PF and a melta that's around 200 points, i think..., the WP w/ pelt, and frags is another 99 and the 35 point DP, if they don't show up, that's around 335 points of 1500 that are gone. i understand that they don't show up rarely, but if they show up to late it could be just as bad. it is why i prefer to throw a shooty unit in them that still have some H2H skills. take for example:

10 GH w/ bolters, PW, PF, PG

WGPL w/ combie-plasma, PW, pelt

WP w/ pelt

DP

more expensive but can handle a lot. i have run this squad a few times and took down 2 devastator squads, and a tactical squad in one game, and way to many guard (i think a LRBT, hellhound, and around 3 or 4 squads of guys).

 

That makes a whole lotta sense - damn!

 

Time for a rethink...

[the jeske]

more expensive but can handle a lot. i have run this squad a few times and took down 2 devastator squads, and a tactical squad in one game, and way to many guard (i think a LRBT, hellhound, and around 3 or 4 squads of guys).

another words they are good against gunline lists/units and the weak sm tacticals , that drop pods were always good against . I dont think that anyone runs BC lists with drop pods , the randome factor hurts too much a unit that doesnt shot on landing [i also dont think I have ever seen BC with a special other then a flamer ].

[WG Vrox]

I have had good luck with using a 3 pod list, Droping a GH pack with BGs first, followed by the Blood Claws on the same turn, aiming just behind the GH DP. If any unit is foolish enough to charge the GHs, the BC will make short work of them in the following assult phase. Makes for a very nice forward moving leap frog tactic, with the BC charging what the GH have just rapid fired on.

 

This would be the only way I would put BCs in a DP and always with a RP, they need that extra staying power he provides. 10BC 1PW 1PF 1FLAM, WGPL PF/SS, RP FB/SS.

 

WG Vrox

[nedaroony]

i cant wait till i can get motivated enough to restart painting my woofers just so i can see the look on peoples faces when i land my (hopefully finished at some point in the future) t'hawk with 30 BC's sprinting down the ramp like the excitable puppies they are :lol:

[Grimfoe]

as i see it:

1) they are assault troops, like you said they can't assault.

2) low BS and short range, can't use their ranged weapons that well

3) rhino can taxi like you said

4)(mind you for this one i have really read much into the "new" drop pod rules) what if they don't come in...

 

if you run those 11 with PF and a melta that's around 200 points, i think..., the WP w/ pelt, and frags is another 99 and the 35 point DP, if they don't show up, that's around 335 points of 1500 that are gone. i understand that they don't show up rarely, but if they show up to late it could be just as bad. it is why i prefer to throw a shooty unit in them that still have some H2H skills. take for example:

10 GH w/ bolters, PW, PF, PG

WGPL w/ combie-plasma, PW, pelt

WP w/ pelt

DP

more expensive but can handle a lot. i have run this squad a few times and took down 2 devastator squads, and a tactical squad in one game, and way to many guard (i think a LRBT, hellhound, and around 3 or 4 squads of guys).

 

That makes a whole lotta sense - damn!

 

Time for a rethink...

 

Another thing that we've mentioned in a couple of other threads....

 

you don't have to get out of the Rhino and let your opponent shoot you. You can drive into position and pop smoke on the rhino. Disembark the next turn, then move and assault. The rhinos hold up very well to fire with the cover save provided by the smoke launchers. Even if your enemy does manage to destroy your rhino, he won't get to put much fire (if any) into your squad. They'll likely disembark and remain untouched. Once in a great while they may be pinned, but it's unlikely. If your opponent ignores your rhinos (they usually do), you can drive around tank shocking and ramming other vehicles. It's great fun.

 

On the other hand, the new deathwind missile launchers are a great deal of fun on the drop pods as well. I usually reserve them for my dreads.