Hunter-Killer Missiles?

[maniclurker]

Simply put... can HK missiles be removed from a "Weapon Destroyed" result?

[Melissia]

Regardless of if they are one-use, they are a weapon you can purchase, ergo the enemy should be able to destroy them.

[SeattleDV8]

Of course. no question at all... and to answer your follow up question .. a weapon destroyed result would have to remove a already fired missle launcher before becoming a vehicle immobilied result.

[maniclurker]

Nice... I actually didn't think of that. Another reason to take an HK missile instead of an extra storm bolter.

[Hexx]

Of course. no question at all... and to answer your follow up question .. a weapon destroyed result would have to remove a already fired missle launcher before becoming a vehicle immobilied result.

 

Not really

 

You can (of course) take a hit on an existing missile, but once it's gone you don't have a weapon anymore.

You do not purchase a launcher, sights,control equipment or anything else with it that you can claim to take the hit.

 

That's kinda like arguing you can take multiple hits on a lascannon, as it's twin linked so there's two, then take a hit on the generator, one on the barrels themselves, one on the fire control system...

[Brother-Flame]

What soldier in his right mind would tarket something useless on a tank aka emty missile launcher, they wouldn't, they'll target someting imprtant : big guns, ammo, fuel tank etc.

 

But the idea of taking a hk missile and storm bolter for the extra weapon dammaged results seem like a good idea!

[Captain Malachi]

@Hexx: It's nothing like taking extra hits on a lascannons barrels etc, the point is, a hunterkiller missile is a weapon, just because it can't be fired again doesn't stop it being a weapon, so you can still count it as a weapon for "weapon destroyed" results after it's been fired.

[maniclurker]

@Hexx: It's nothing like taking extra hits on a lascannons barrels etc, the point is, a hunterkiller missile is a weapon, just because it can't be fired again doesn't stop it being a weapon, so you can still count it as a weapon for "weapon destroyed" results after it's been fired.

I like you. Let's be friends.

 

I'm going with this one here. It's layed out logically, and I personally like it better.

[Hexx]

@Hexx: It's nothing like taking extra hits on a lascannons barrels etc, the point is, a hunterkiller missile is a weapon, just because it can't be fired again doesn't stop it being a weapon, so you can still count it as a weapon for "weapon destroyed" results after it's been fired.

 

I'd respectfully disagree

As an easy example...

 

A vehicle that doesn't move may fire "all of it's weapons"

It may fire a HK missile if it hasn't been fired.

It may not fire a HK missile that has been fired.

Therefore it's not considered a weapon once it's been fired.

 

I'm more than willing to admit this is more of a personal feeling about sontehing I see as an incredibly cheesy tactic ("I want to pay 10 pts for an unlimted range missile that also lets me take an extra hit")

 

However I believe it is a weapon that's fired once, then in no way,shape, or form in this game is it still considered a weapon after it's been fired.

[SeattleDV8]

I not sure of the wording in the C:Sm but the DA codex pg. 55 "They are treated as an additional main weapon."

 

weak logic in your example, if that vehicle had been stunned and was unable to fire any other weapons, are all the guns now non-weapons?

 

By the same logic do combi-weapons stop being weapons after the single shot?

 

Hardly cheesy a one shot weapon that almost never makes its points back , its use it or lose style generally means you waste it on lesser targets.

[Shiodome]

just because it can't be fired again doesn't stop it being a weapon

 

yes it does.

[nighthawks]

The HK is a weapon. the box or whatever the missile was fired from stays and could potentially absorb the impact of an otherwise immobilizing shot. obviously the opposing player will not nominate the HK until it is the last thing on the vehicle, but it IS a weapon.

[Praeger]

There are numerous vehisle in the Forgeworld series that have limited shots - what would you do with these if their weapon was destroyed after they had fired?

 

Personaly iread it like this:

 

the WEAPON can FIRE once - but nowhere does it say the weapon is now gone. It just cant fire again.

[Hexx]

Again- you're not buying a box with a missile in it, you are buying one (1) krak missile that your vehicle can shoot (please note- again you're not buying a krak misile launcher, a krak missile box, krak missile slingshot or anything else, just the missile)

 

Once it's launched you don't have the weapon amymore.

 

Again- this is (to me) an obvious thing, obviously a number of you feel differently.

 

I can see your point, and I may (although I don't think I am) be arguing intent rather than RAW here, (I'm not convinced either side is covered by RAW)

 

In any event I'll just mark this thread, someday in the (far,far) future when they get around to FAQing it I'll just point out how you were all wrong and how cool it makes me to have been right.

[Steelmage99]

How about the Ork Deffrolla? Is that a weapon, too?

[Brother-Flame]

What about the tau sky ray? This concept makes that tank indistructable needing something like 10 hits to kill it! plus I think the housing just helps with representation the tau missile just clamp on like fighter jets, the hk propably does the same, its just represented in a housing for looks.

[Brother_Dan'l]

They don't exactly make this easier by having the two different versions either. The Marine's HK has a launcher with a tube and sight, while the IG version sits on a launch rail with no other bits.

 

It's been argued over and over again and for some reason GW seems to find it amusing enough that they've never addressed it in an FAQ. Honestly I think it should be treated as a weapon, even after firing. The reason for this is fluff and semi-logically based on the cut away drawing of the Land Raider they did a few years back where they showed stowage for multiple HK missiles inside the tank. In a campaign style game the loss of the launcher would require repair of some sort or the weapon would be useless. Does that mean I make other people play that way? No. But I do try and explain the logic behind my thinking to them and if they then agree with me great. If not, not.

 

As to the claim that the Sky Ray would require 10 hits to knock out it's weapons... That's obviously untrue since if you killed a Seeker Missile that was still on the tank you destroy the entirety of the weapon, missile and launcher based on the same rule that treats twin linked as a single "thing" for damage resolution.

[Steelmage99]

As to the claim that the Sky Ray would require 10 hits to knock out it's weapons... That's obviously untrue since if you killed a Seeker Missile that was still on the tank you destroy the entirety of the weapon, missile and launcher based on the same rule that treats twin linked as a single "thing" for damage resolution.

 

So you are saying that the 2 HK on the Ironclad (assuming you take them) need to be destroyed (even after being fired), but the Seeker Missiles on the Sky Ray does not? How do you figure?

[eyescrossed]

No, he's referring to the casing of the missile, but even without that, it takes 9 weapon destroyed results to take out a skyray's weapons, because of the missiles, markerlight and weapons on the bottom/front/side.

[maniclurker]

Most of the people arguing FOR the HK missile still counting as a weapon have layed out logical arguments.

 

Most of the people against have gone with, what seems to be a "this is how I feel" argument...

 

In a thread based on rules discussion, one of these is more important. I'm for.

[Hexx]

Most of the people arguing FOR the HK missile still counting as a weapon have layed out logical arguments.

 

Not really.

 

They've claimed to buy a launcher.a box, and an assortment of other things.

 

You buy

One krak missile

That's it. that's all.

 

Once that krak missile is launched, you don't have a krak missile anymore.

You are arguing (so it seems) that once you've launched your krak missile it somehow stays around to take hits for you.

Nothing in the rules says you still have some mystery piece of equipment that can absorb hits.

[Captain Malachi]

Hexx: It's a weapon!!! You can use it for weapon destroyed results, that's what the rules say, simple as that. If you and your gaming group don't want to play it that way, then don't, but don't try and claim it's against the rules when it so clearly isn't.

[Hexx]

Actually (oddly maybe now that I think about it) it's never come up in our local games.

 

Still ~have to go with the agree to disagree thing, as I can't conceive of how people think it's a weapon after it's been used.

[Captain Malachi]

To be honest with you hexx, I actually agree that fluffwise it's ridiculous, and I also believe that they should be treated like smoke launchers, and that in fact you shouldn't be able to use them for a weapon destroyed result, but by RAW......... it's unfortunate, but just the way it is, to me at least.

[Praeger]

Again- you're not buying a box with a missile in it, you are buying one (1) krak missile that your vehicle can shoot (please note- again you're not buying a krak misile launcher, a krak missile box, krak missile slingshot or anything else, just the missile)

 

Once it's launched you don't have the weapon amymore.

 

Again- this is (to me) an obvious thing, obviously a number of you feel differently.

 

I can see your point, and I may (although I don't think I am) be arguing intent rather than RAW here, (I'm not convinced either side is covered by RAW)

 

Show proof. Where does it ever say you buy 1 missile? it dosnt.

 

What the RULES say is that you purchase a WEAPON. This WEAPON may only be fired once. After that it can not be fired again. No where does it state the WEAPON is removed or destoryed, it just cant be fired again.

 

The Sky Ray is the same, it has ONE WEAPON that can only be FIRED a certain number of times - after that it simply cant be fired again, that does not mean that it is removed or destroyed.

 

So you are saying that the 2 HK on the Ironclad (assuming you take them) need to be destroyed (even after being fired), but the Seeker Missiles on the Sky Ray does not? How do you figure?

 

What about the tau sky ray? This concept makes that tank indistructable needing something like 10 hits to kill it! plus I think the housing just helps with representation the tau missile just clamp on like fighter jets, the hk propably does the same, its just represented in a housing for looks.

 

The Sky Ray does NOT have 10 weapons, it has ONE weapon that FIRES 10 times. Big difrence.

 

Ironclad (I dont have the rules so would have to check) either has 2 hunter killer missiles, thus two WEAPONS that can FIRE once each - OR - it has a single hunter killer that can fire twice.

 

 

MOD HAT ON

 

In any event I'll just mark this thread, someday in the (far,far) future when they get around to FAQing it I'll just point out how you were all wrong and how cool it makes me to have been right.

 

If this is how you will be arguing your points, by writing things that come across as obviously flaming, then i will be forced to delete your comments. Either post corectly following the rules or dont post. The rules are there for a reason, if you dont know what they are, then time to re-read them. If you dont wish to follow them, then dont post.

 

Any problems PM me.