The Spartans

[Firenze]

I am currently planning on a chapter called the Spartans. I have got this far but need a little help.

 

Chapter name: Spartans

Homeworld: Sparta

Chapter Master: Leonidus

Founding: 24th

 

I know they were very steadfast and tough. I have a scheme that Ill post ASAP. But I want to relate the chapter to real history. Any help would be great.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Warp Angel]

Well, two notable things about the historical Spartans:

 

They had 2 Kings. One would go to war, and the other would stay back and run things.

 

They kept a sizable part of their forces back in Lacadaemon (Sparta) because they relied on extensive slave labor, and without a strong military presence, their slaves would revolt.

 

Their most notable battle was actually the loss at Thermopylae, where a fraction of their army (with some allies) died to a man to delay an advancing horde army.

 

So:

 

Non-codex organization where one Chapter Master goes with the fleet on deployment and fighting and the other stays home.

Homeworld should be infested with Orks and/or have an unstable political situation that requires a significant part of the Chapter be permanently stationed at home.

A reputation for stubbornness isn't unreasonable, and playing with Lysander or Kantor to get that trait wouldn't be unfluffy.

 

My $0.02

[Marshal Rohr]

Dont do a direct cross over. Use some creativity and try to subtly suggest similarities, dont just outright say they are from a planet called Sparta and there lord is Leonidas. Do things like use similar symbols, give the veterans crimson cloaks, and have greek names; but calling the the Spartans is a lazy plot device.

[flintlocklaser]

Someone else here in the Liber said it once - Spartan-themed Space Marines are like cake-flavored cake. Do something, anything, to switch things up a bit. At the very least, as Marshal2 Crusaders also said, change the names around. Even calling their homeworld Lacadaemonia would be a step in the right direction - a baby step, to be sure, but a step nonetheless.

[Ferrata]

I believe it was Barret who said 'Doing a Spartan-themed Space Marine chapter is like doing a pie-flavoured pie', in short, Space Marines are already Spartans. We aren't saying you shouldn't run with it, but if you do, pick it up and run as far away from 300 as you possibly can. Hide Spartan references behind different names, make it so it is a Space Marine chapter flavoured by the Spartans and not Spartans in Space.

[flintlocklaser]

I believe it was Barret who said 'Doing a Spartan-themed Space Marine chapter is like doing a pie-flavoured pie',

Thanks Ferrata! I even think you had to remind me of this for the last Spartan-themed DIY we had in here, I need to remember it's pie, not cake!

 

in short, Space Marines are already Spartans. We aren't saying you shouldn't run with it, but if you do, pick it up and run as far away from 300 as you possibly can. Hide Spartan references behind different names, make it so it is a Space Marine chapter flavoured by the Spartans and not Spartans in Space.

And yes yes yes, a thousand times yes, to this. If you want Spartan influences, go for the stuff that's deeper under the surface. For things that are more blatant, camouflage them as well as possible. Do some digging through Herodotus, and Plutarch's stuff on Sparta. Let us know what parts of Sparta you want to emphasize and we can help suggest stuff.

[Vassakov]

I thought you were just using the Spartans name and leaving everything else as DIY - for the love of god, Firenze - why so blatent?!? You can do much better than this.

[Skirax]

the loss at Thermopylae,

If 300 is anything to run by, It was a resounding success. They took 300 and, despite them all dieing, they killed thousands, close to a million.

 

Back on the topic, are all their cloaks going to be crimson or is their main colour crimson because that was the Spartan trademark if you would call it that.

 

run as far away from 300 as you possibly can

No, stick with it in my opinion. I realise you may take Ferratas opinion above mine but think about this: Spartans lured their enemy into a battle ground that suited them better. they formed up togethor in close ranks, protecting the man to their left. They had strength above all. So, in conclusion:

 

1) Space Marines tackle enemies head-on, or making lightning strikes. Spartans make their enemy come to them, then counter strike when the enemy least expects it. For this, use the idea of using Fast attack slots run at the enemies, let them get in range, but just out, then lure them within range of like, a Vindicator so that it can blast them to bits.

 

2) They kept closed ranks, shoulder to shoulder not letting one nemy through. The way I envision this is by having loads of infantry units then keep them in a narrow space, base to base with each other, and several squads in one column or row so that waves of bolter fire hit the enemy and they are crushed beneath the heavy amount of fire.

 

3) Strength Above All. I say all Sergeants have Power Weapons/Fists. This makes them seem like the strongest of all.

[Marshal Rohr]

the loss at Thermopylae,

If 300 is anything to run by, It was a resounding success. They took 300 and, despite them all dieing, they killed thousands, close to a million.

 

Back on the topic, are all their cloaks going to be crimson or is their main colour crimson because that was the Spartan trademark if you would call it that.

 

run as far away from 300 as you possibly can

No, stick with it in my opinion. I realise you may take Ferratas opinion above mine but think about this: Spartans lured their enemy into a battle ground that suited them better. they formed up togethor in close ranks, protecting the man to their left. They had strength above all. So, in conclusion:

 

1) Space Marines tackle enemies head-on, or making lightning strikes. Spartans make their enemy come to them, then counter strike when the enemy least expects it. For this, use the idea of using Fast attack slots run at the enemies, let them get in range, but just out, then lure them within range of like, a Vindicator so that it can blast them to bits.

 

2) They kept closed ranks, shoulder to shoulder not letting one nemy through. The way I envision this is by having loads of infantry units then keep them in a narrow space, base to base with each other, and several squads in one column or row so that waves of bolter fire hit the enemy and they are crushed beneath the heavy amount of fire.

 

3) Strength Above All. I say all Sergeants have Power Weapons/Fists. This makes them seem like the strongest of all.

 

 

 

Well, this might be true if everyone and their brother hadn't have contemplated/made a Spartan/ Spartan themed chapter since that movie came out. However, Missing/loyal-traitor Legion, Spartan, and Loyalist Alpha Legion seems to be the flavor these days anything at all that is different is shocking. And a re-imagining of the Spartan theme would be not only welcome but refreshingly original.

 

Edit: If you go through with this then their armor would look good Gold. not enough people do Gold armored Chapters.

[flintlocklaser]

run as far away from 300 as you possibly can

No, stick with it in my opinion.

 

The problem with this is that the movie/graphic novel 300 only focuses on the one part of Spartan history, where there's lots and lots of other cool stuff in primary sources and other histories written about Sparta. Plenty of people have made 300 DiY chapters. Not very many have made chapters based on a fuller understanding of Sparta's role in the ancient world. You're already handicapped when you do a Spartan SM army, because the two biggest historical influences that GW used to make the Space Marines were the Spartans and the Roman Legions. Tying yourself to the one snapshot moment that is the Battle of Thermopylae is further restricting yourself; and tying it to a highly stylized representation of that event is even more of a restriction.

 

If I ever did a Spartan DiY - and I might at some point, inspired by Commissar Molotov's great ninja-inspired DIY - I'd pick some other aspect of Spartan history to focus on. The Peloponnesian War would be a great time to mine for Spartan inspirations - siegecraft, naval victories over the Athenians, even hoplites/Spartiates surrendering! All sorts of good stuff, and nowhere near as one-dimensional as the traditional Hot Gates-flavored stuff.

[Skirax]

Man, your right Flint. I agree with that. Sparta was probably the best fighting force of its time.

 

When I say about in my last post their fighting style, it is just that I did lots of research into the Spartan fighting force and I was beyond impressed with the idea of fighting and their own personal style. If I am wrong, correct me but bear in mind it has been ages since I did any work on them, were they not the first faction in the old world to use the phalanx? I amy be wrong, it was either that or they were the faction that used it to its best effect. they could kill hundreds without losing ONE man! :eek :D

 

Then agian, I could be wrong. If I am, I am beyond stupid. :pinch:

[brother natar]

I have to say, I am of the opinion you have to mask the Spartanness of any Spartan themed Chapter. I did an overtly 300 inspired Chapter once, and got totally burned.. and rightly so. Everyone comes up with the same ideas that soon become old and boring.

 

Please don't call them 'the Spartans'. Come up with a different, cooler name. My guys were called the 'Azure Dragons', because they hunted fire drakes. You can call them anything, and not be too Spartan (what's spartan 'bout the colour blue and dragons?). By the same token, please change the Master's name, and the homeworld. I found the names of two villages in Laconia (Spartan region) and merged the 2 names... for the life of me i can't think of the final name though.

 

 

Also, come up with some things that aren't Spartan at all. I have already said i made some Spartanesque Marines that hunted dragons. THis dragon hunting qwas an essential part of the fluff, anf made them infinatly more interesting and not just 1 dimensional 300 Marines.

 

Please bear in mind 300 may be an awesome graphic novel, and an amazing film, but it does not truly potray the Spartan way of life. The Spartans had very different methods of 'bonding' to one another, not something you should copy directly but make it so they do something in training that makes them super loyal to one another and also so they are more willing to die to protect their brothers; much like the Space Wolves and how they form packs.

 

I don't mean to rip your ideas, go with them if you want. But making your Marines look less Spartan (or should i say Frank Miller's idea of Spartan) will make them look so, so much better.

[Custodian Athiair]

hi there i have allready develpoed a nice Spartan themed chapter

 

here is the link My Spartan Chapter

 

Octavulg was very useful in that

 

i hope it goes well for you

 

Athiair :pinch:

[Imperialis_Dominatus]

You know, I'd agree with the sentiments above in that 'everyone does Spartan Chapters,' if it weren't for the fact that I've never actually seen a Spartan Space Marine army, converted and painted. EDIT: Or so I said before the post above me. Though your pics don't work. :pinch:

 

It seems sort of like Bregalad and Chaos Tau over on Warseer. There's a lot of moaning about the concept simply because everyone thinks of doing it, but few execute it because they get shot down.

 

I think incorporating Spartan elements into a Space Marine army would be cool.

 

I also think a fully-converted and painted Spartan army would be cool. Since I've never seen one. EDIT At least not till now.

 

Do what you want though. And let us see the product!

[Marshal Rohr]

Using the Peloponnesian War as a guideline for the fluff of your chapters conflicts would be a good basis for your combat history, however your still going to need to come up with an effective cover as not to burst the suspension of disbelief, which the title of this thread alone does. Think about all of your favorite martial traits throw them in a blender pick the best and then figure out a way to flaw them, because its the flaws that make something good not the uberness.

 

Look at the best DIY's on this forum and you will see that the disadvantages and prejudices make these chapters the most fun and realistic, not the fact that "master Leonidas and three battle companies (with speerz) stood up to the evil Warboss Zurgzees with millions of Orks and his unkillable meganobz at the uncomfortably warm portico".

[flintlocklaser]

You know, I'd agree with the sentiments above in that 'everyone does Spartan Chapters,' if it weren't for the fact that I've never actually seen a Spartan Space Marine army, converted and painted. EDIT: Or so I said before the post above me. Though your pics don't work. :D

I actually agree with you on making the models themselves look Spartan, you see it occasionally but not that often. Of course, part of the problem is representing hoplites well in a game army that doesn't carry a hoplon! But I've seen a few converted armies with long spears for CCWs, lots of Generic Ancient World horsehair crests, and even a few with the aforementioned hoplons for their combat/storm shields.

 

 

I think incorporating Spartan elements into a Space Marine army would be cool.

Well, again the big problem with this is that GW has done a lot of it already. So you have to walk a fine line between not actually being any more Spartan-influenced than any other codex chapter, or going too far overboard and making your references way too blatant and obvious. Hopefully that's where we can be helpful!

[Marshal Rohr]

I think incorporating Spartan elements into a Space Marine army would be cool.

Well, again the big problem with this is that GW has done a lot of it already. So you have to walk a fine line between not actually being any more Spartan-influenced than any other codex chapter, or going too far overboard and making your references way too blatant and obvious. Hopefully that's where we can be helpful!

 

Flint is right, the way your marines are trained as a standard is Spartan-esque enough.

[-Brother Sargent Tiberius-]

I believe it was Barret who said 'Doing a Spartan-themed Space Marine pie is like doing a pie-flavoured pie', in short, Space Marines are already Spartans. We aren't saying you shouldn't run with it, but if you do, pick it up and run as far away from 300 as you possibly can. Hide Spartan references behind different names, make it so it is a Space Marine chapter flavoured by the Spartans and not Spartans in Space.

comparing the emperors children to pastries is heresy... yea but you could make the army blood angel successor or just mainly close combat maybe. you could use more storm shields but also come up with original stuff.

[mitchell93]

Aren't the Iron Snakes already an chapter that has Greek referances e.g. phalax

[Commissar Molotov]

You know, I'd agree with the sentiments above in that 'everyone does Spartan Chapters,' if it weren't for the fact that I've never actually seen a Spartan Space Marine army, converted and painted.

 

Here's another example.

[Kihriban]

You know, I'd agree with the sentiments above in that 'everyone does Spartan Chapters,' if it weren't for the fact that I've never actually seen a Spartan Space Marine army, converted and painted.

 

Here's another example.

 

That's pretty sick. Do you guys know where he got the mohawks from/ how he made them?

[Dedjartes]

One of the warhammer FB mercenary box sets I think. Can't remember which one.

 

I think a 'eavy metal staff member did a very good squad of spartan marines circa 2000 as well.

[Dedjartes]

The Alcatani Pikemen (under misc collectors on the online shop) have this sort of headgear, but they're expensive just to use for the crest.

[Commissar Molotov]

Not that this is really the place for it, I'm given to understand they're Eldar Dire Avenger parts.

[Firenze]

Thank you everyone. There is a few things I had ideas for.

 

Planet is going to be named by you.

CM (or 2) is now called Leon or (?) after a spartan king(s).

Name forchapter is still same (Im sorry I like it...)

Planet has a ork infestation.

Geneseed is ultramarine (rumoured).

Eschew the Codex (use SW dex)

Favour heat weapons.

Favour CC and hard hitting assaults (TH, DP or mechanised)