no name the great Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I have an battle this Saturday versus a blood angel player. All he uses is infantry with jump packs and sometimes rhinos and a predator. I know the wolves can take all of them but death company is what scares me. He usually has like 8 of them with a Chaplin so they are a scary thing. Do you guys have any suggestions on taking these guys out? I was thinking of decking out most my things with ap 3 weapons so i do not have to deal with the who fearless thing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
WG Vrox Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 ahh what a beutiful use of a Vindicator or two. Just make sure you have something close by for clean up or if you miss. You don't want them anywhere near your Vindi or it will be assulted and all you can hope for it to blow big and take some of them with it. Assulting vehicals with a power fist these days is very profitable. WG Vrox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1812081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 2 vindicators as vrox said,with 2 11 man bloodclaws packs on foot in front/next to them, use a run move the turn before they come close so your vindie gets cover in your opponents turn. what are the deathcompany stats?otherwise maybe a droppodding iron clad be usefull too Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1812261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Theyre assault marines with rending.... not that scary and not that tough either. remember he only gets one Death Company model for each of the following units included in the army: - Honour Guard - Terminator Squad - Veteran Assault Squad - Assault Squad - Tactical Squad - Devastator Squad After that its 30pts a peice. Count his units... does he normally run around 8 of these? They have three attacks a peice, with a bolt pistol and CCW. Hit them with some blood claw bikers, rapid fir them to hell with bolters, hit them with vindicators... all the standard tactics youd use against assault marines will work here. There only special rule is rending, and that they are free with those squads. Also... remember they act alot like 13nth co wulfen... if theres no chaplain within 6" they have to run towards your nearest unit. If he doesnt run a chappy with them make him pay and lead them around with a landspeeder. And lastly remember that fearless is as much a detriment as it is a blessing. If they lose combat they start taking wounds... and thats never a good thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1812273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Last time I played against BA's competitively, he had 3 Baal preds, 2 squads of MM attack bikes (2 in each), some assault marine squads (count as troops), a 10-man DC squad with a chappy, and I think a VAS. He charged his DC into my LRC squad... that was 12 BC's 1 WGPL, 1 Wolf Lord, and 1 Wolf Priest... 7 DC went down from the HQ's, he put 3 guys against my HQ's (they didn't do anything), the rest against my BC's, he ended up killing a few from rends, rest make most of the saves, power fists live, killing off chappy and rest of squad with WGPL. Dice gods were more in my favor with this one. The BEST way is vindicator... you can likely lead them out into the open, ignore their FnP, and smack them all down in one fell swoop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1812332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. A. K. Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Theyre assault marines with rending.... not that scary and not that tough either. remember he only gets one Death Company model for each of the following units included in the army: - Honour Guard - Terminator Squad - Veteran Assault Squad - Assault Squad - Tactical Squad - Devastator Squad After that its 30pts a peice. Count his units... does he normally run around 8 of these? Also remember that no matter how many of them are 'free' he still needs to pay 5pts a piece for the jumppacks, although he could keep them on foot and get a rhino for them for nothing (not conting upgrades; dover, EA, etc.). The strenght of the DC really depends on his dice rolling, a lot of rends and they become tougher, though since the change to the rending rules they are't as big a threat to dreads ^_^ G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1812404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Well, if you really want to make them pay... a Vindicator. Failing that, any of the plasma death squads or a TDA squad will eat them. Do your best to deny them the charge, of even drive a Rhino or something in front of them. They have to charge it, and then you counter charge them. Just don't get to tied up with them - the Angels are wily and canny foes, as anyone who can field 30 Assault Marines with ease should be. A Dread can also hold the psychos up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1812628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Rending is not nearly as powerful as it was in 4th. Its only an instant wound on a 6 on damage, not on the to-hit roll. So you will end up getting hit by alot less rending than before. I shoot the crap out of them when faced with them.. but that was 3rd ed. Havent even SEEN a blood angel army since 4th was released. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1812671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAVAAR Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Really anything with AP 1 or 2 will do nicely as that will ignore their armor and FNP. Vindi's, as stated, are great so long as you have something to protect them from being assaulted. Another thing you might try is Razorback transport for your GH (I've found this pretty effective against anything so far). Give them a LC and TL PG. That will also give you an option for any armor he might run, and if he doesn't it's a great transport with some good firepower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1812926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 send some Wulfen in to deal with them, Especially those with Rending, Ok Ok APOC rule only but who cares Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1813146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dietrich Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Don't let them get off the charge. It makes them +1 Str, +1 Init, +1 Attack, and (assuming they have Lemartes or a Chaplain leading them), they'll re-roll to hits. They die to powerfists just as easy as any other marine. Powerweapons and lightning claws make them cry. And all those don't allow FNP saves. If you can get a dread into the unit, it'll hold the whole unit up. They attack the front armor, so they're S4 (5 on the charge), need a 4+ to hit, a 6 on armor pen to roll an extra d3, needing a 2 (1 on the charge) to glance - it's not easy for them to bring down a dread. Even if they have a Chaplain with a powerfist, he's hitting on a 3 or 4+ (if it's a regular or ven dread), and needs a 4+ to glance. DC is tough, but not unbeatable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1813635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildeyedjester Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Theyre assault marines with rending.... not that scary and not that tough either. They have three attacks a peice, with a bolt pistol and CCW. There only special rule is rending, and that they are free with those squads. They have four attacks on the charge at initiative 5 and Str5 with rending. Due to the chaplain, they also get to reroll all misses on the charge, making their rending attacks more common. They are fearless and they also have feel no pain. This unit is hands down bad news in hand to hand. If you want them dead, you need to hit them with a template from a vindi, but the ba player will know to keep his death company away from it. You may need to run a screening unit to feed the dc to stall them out so you can hit them with the vindi. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1813679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vassakov Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Actually, an Ironclad would make mincemeat of them. AV13 will make it functionally inpregnable and 4 S10 attacks are going to hurt. Give it the assualt grenades to limit their attacks, and they'll have hard work hurting it. That said, anything short of a full TDA squad with chainfists is not going to phase an Ironclad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1813682 Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildeyedjester Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Actually, an Ironclad would make mincemeat of them. AV13 will make it functionally inpregnable and 4 S10 attacks are going to hurt. Give it the assualt grenades to limit their attacks, and they'll have hard work hurting it. That said, anything short of a full TDA squad with chainfists is not going to phase an Ironclad. Remember with that many rending attacks coming from death company some will roll rend. Rend means the death company could potentially still glance your iron clad's armor of 13 (str 4 + d6 +d3 (on a rend)), but its unlikely. If the death company charged your iron clad they could potentially take it down since they would be strength 5, and they would have proportionately more rends due to rerolled missed attacks, and they would swing prior to the dread at initiative 5. More than likely the combat would tie both the death company and the iron clad up for a few rounds due to their fearlessness. Your best bet of instant annihalation for the dc is always to shoot them with pie plates, or plasma cannon blasts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1813683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf89 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 You can also roll with some nice HQ's with BC's in a LRR (I know I hate the redeemer, but the AP3 is nasty against those guys) the DC can't hurt it (or just barely glance on the charge with lucky 6's to hit and 6's again, then a 5/6 for D3... ) then charge out with I5 HQ's to kill most of the DC before they get to charge. But yes, 3 vindi's stop almost anything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1813692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfLordLars Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Problem is, not everyone brings 3 vindicators to a regular game. Usually they dont even bring 1-2. So, for a typical 'all comers' list, how does one deal with DC? Its all well and good to say "use X Y and Z" but if you would never use X Y or Z usually... not of much use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1813867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother SRM Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Feel no pain does nothing against power weapons. Make sure you get the charge on them with blood claws or Wolf Guard Terminators, loaded with fists and power weapons. Alternately, I second the idea of using a vindi. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1813959 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimfoe Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 If you load your rhino with Hunters, a WGPL and Ragnar, swing it around and park it right in front of them. They'll charge the rhino and destroy it and you can assault them on your next turn. Should be an easy victory with a MC Frostblade with a boat load of attacks and at least three more powerfists or power weapons all using Ragnar's additional attack on assault. The only potential problem comes if your troops get pinned. Rather unlikely and I imagine that you'll still win the close combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1814073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Id bring an Ironclad in an all comers list. Its got a place in drop pod, footslogging and mech lists. Mech lists is the hardest to keep him inline with the group.... but hes rather usefull as another AV13 vehicle to distract the enemy from your rhinos. And A vindicator is actually pretty popular around here... good against orks, nids and marines. Not bad against gaurd, and can hurt a monolith. The new template rules have really helped the ol girl. But push comes to shove.... Grey Hunters. A pack with x2 PP, PG, and a pack leader with CP will shoot them up pretty well, and throw atleast two power weapons into the mix.... sure youll be hurting afterwords but youll probly come out on top if the dice gods dont hate you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/155209-how-to-deal-with-death-company/#findComment-1814222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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