Killhammer Strategy: Using Tactial Squads

[Terminus]

I'm in agreement with chunky04 in that I find two 5-man combat squads working in tandem to be more survivable than a single 10-man squad. Marines die to either huge volumes of attacks, or special weapons. Either of these can often kill 5-marines and then some, but any excess wounds are wasted. If you're assaulted by like 30 ork boys or some tooled-up squad, they will easily annihilate 10 men, but they end up capping out at 5. The second squad will likely be dead soon, too, but at least they are in perfect position to rapid fire into the enemy, and their badass squad has now taken two turns to kill the same amount of guys they could have easily annihilated in one.

 

10-man squads also have the issue that if they want to utilize their heavy weapon, they can't really utilize melta-guns, flamers or power weapons on the Sgt. Even bolters really need to be within 12" to be truly effective, which precludes using the heavy weapon. With a combat squad, "wasting" four bolter-guys stings a bit, but at least they are protecting your best weapon, and it stings a lot less than "wasting" 7 bolter-guys, a special weapon, and a sgt.

 

I start all my SM army lists with two basic tac squads (PF, flamer, missile launcher). I almost always break them up into combat squads. The two combat squads with missile launchers guard my objective, giving me a decent base of fire (not great), 4 ablative wounds per missile launcher, as well as the ability to split my fire. The two combat squads with the sgt and special weapon mount up in a couple of razorbacks and head for the enemies objectives.

 

Tactical marines aren't great at killing stuff, but 8 rapid-firing bolters, two flamers, and two twin-linked razorbacks (possibly with stormbolters if I have spare points) will clear off a fair bit of infantry (I'm sure someone here can mathhammer it the specifics, but in my experience they clear even marine squads off the objectives pretty easily). If the target is a similarly small unit that may well die to 5 marines with a flamer (a squad of guardsmen for example), I don't have to waste the fire of the second unit. If I come across a unit in a transport (very many people park a 5-man squad in a tank on their objective), one squad can pop the transport with their fist, and the other squad and razorbacks can hose them down with fire and lead. Having the flamers in individual squads also gives me more flexibility in angles I can place the templates (I love tank-shocking to cluster troops up for the templates). In assaults, I have two power fists rather than just one. Yes, they have fewer ablative wounds, but even if they all die you still have the second unit with a second special weapon and power fist.

 

I'm considering splurging another 20 points, and giving both Sgts. a combi-flamer. I hesitate because it's only 1 shot/game for 10 points, but adding two flamer templates will add significant punch to that turn of shooting, further ensuring I clear the offending units off the objective.

 

So don't knock the combat squad, man! Combat squads kick ass!

[Resv]

You need units of 10 marines to be able to take flamers/meltas/plasmas.

[Olesh]

You need units of 10 marines to be able to take flamers/meltas/plasmas.

 

He is discussing two full squads of 10, combat squadded into four squads of 5 during deployment.

[Resv]

Bap...I'm dumb... Sorry mate!

[Warp Angel]

And what I see in two combat squads is a target of opportunity.

 

Lessee... I want to assault you. That means that I shoot the crap out of the one with sarge in it.

Or maybe I'm worried about anti-tank at range. I'm going after the one with the Multi-Melta or Lascannon.

 

A combat squad means that you have 4 or fewer ablative wounds to protect sarge and your special weapons.

 

A combat squad means that you're much easier to beat in assault with a reduced strength attacking unit.

 

There are situations where you want to use _sacrificial_ combat squads, or force the enemy to split overkill level firepower among smaller targets, but there aren't a lot of situations where I feel like leaving the 40 point space marine hanging out in the wind and enabling him to die easily. Individual tactical marines are merely adequate. Protect the special/heavy/sergeant.

 

Everyone's play style is different, and there are definitely situations where combat squadding makes sense. I just seldom see those situations.

[Miscellaneous Marine]

Recently at Battle in the Vines (Greta, NSW, Australia, 11 april, 2000 points) I ran a marine horde army.

 

1 Librarian - Gate, Avenger

60 tactical Marines - 3 melta guns, 3 plasma guns, 3 power fists, 2 multi meltas, 4 las cannons,

20 Devestators - 4 missile launchers, 3 plasma cannons, 1 heavy bolter.

3 rhinos

1 whirl wind

 

I recorded

5-15 loss

15-5 win

14-6 win

12-8 Win

5-15 loss

 

The losses mainly came down to how bad I played, not the list. 12 scoring units, 14 heavy weapons.

 

This is what I found: It is very hard to kill 60-80 marines. And with their mix of weapons They can kill just about anything. Tactical squads work because they can do anything well. At 1750 tournment in a few months Im planing on taking

 

1 librarian

60 Tac Marines - 6 misisle, 2 flamer, 2melta, 2 plasma, 3 power fists

3 rhinos

1 Dred (Multi melta, ccw/stormbolter)

2 vindicators

1 wirlwind

 

Multi meltas have to short a range for tactical squads

Plasma cannons are unreliable

Lascannons are to expensive

Heavy bolters are not effective

 

Missiles give range and flexability. Flamers are there because I ran out of points.

Meltas for CC and tank hunting, Plasma for the foot sloggers, 1 flamer with a fist in the rhino, other with the lib for un caping objectives.

 

Also Combat squading is esential in objective missions, Double your scoring units, Heavy squads for D, speacial and Sarg for offence.

 

Just my thoughts/rant.

[War Angel]

in kill games, doesnt it dubble youre opponents max kill limit'?

[Miscellaneous Marine]

Where are you going with that?

[kirasu]

This is what I found: It is very hard to kill 60-80 marines. And with their mix of weapons They can kill just about anything. Tactical squads work because they can do anything well. At 1750 tournment in a few months Im planing on taking

 

1 librarian

60 Tac Marines - 6 misisle, 2 flamer, 2melta, 2 plasma, 3 power fists

3 rhinos

1 Dred (Multi melta, ccw/stormbolter)

2 vindicators

1 wirlwind

 

Multi meltas have to short a range for tactical squads

Plasma cannons are unreliable

Lascannons are to expensive

Heavy bolters are not effective

 

Missiles give range and flexability. Flamers are there because I ran out of points.

Meltas for CC and tank hunting, Plasma for the foot sloggers, 1 flamer with a fist in the rhino, other with the lib for un caping objectives.

 

Also Combat squading is esential in objective missions, Double your scoring units, Heavy squads for D, speacial and Sarg for offence.

 

Just my thoughts/rant.

 

I think that for most really good armies killing 60 marines is not a big deal since they are such a low threat. It's my belief that tactical marine spam should only be used if you COMBO it with HQ choices that allow the tacticals to do something.. decent

 

Vulkan IMO is a 100% must for tactical squar armies since it boosts the effectiveness of your best weapons by a large degree.. Or even Pedro because doubling attacks makes them more of a threat. I cant see the value in a lone librarian in that list. Drop the librarian and the whirlwind (which I havent seen do any decent damage since the beginning of 3rd) and add in vulkan or pedro

[Warp Angel]

Vulkan IMO is a 100% must for tactical squar armies since it boosts the effectiveness of your best weapons by a large degree.. Or even Pedro because doubling attacks makes them more of a threat. I cant see the value in a lone librarian in that list. Drop the librarian and the whirlwind (which I havent seen do any decent damage since the beginning of 3rd) and add in vulkan or pedro

 

Agreed on all points, and think that Vulkan is the best choice for a Marine horde list.

[Rage]

Ok, my bit of input....

 

What I see for scoring units is lots of D1 and make S and K1 very small, D1 is increased by the very act of making the unit as unscary relative to anything else you have, due to the low target priority. Therefore the longer it stays a low priority the better its chances of survival. This can be just a small 5 man tac squad with no upgrades in a basic razorback (or a Rhino if you really want to keep the K1 as low as possible). The reasoning goes as such...

 

1. You can get 2 five man squads for about the price of a kitted out 10 man squad, but the 2 5 men squads now both have a moving bunker to hide in, while if you combat squad the 10 man squad only one does so they the squad is actually less durable. Therefore the 2 5 man squads have a higher D1 than the 10 man tac squad.

 

2. A kitted out 10 man tac squad has a relatively higher K1 than the 5 man squads, so by Kill Hammer definition they'd want to start pounding on the 10 man tac squad...unless the fudge factor S end sup being high for the 5 man Tacs for some reason, but this'll be down to your game play with them.

 

3. If your army contains other high target priorities, you should hope to get the squad past turn 3/4 just by being a low priority, the rest you can do by judicious hiding/running away.

 

4. No matter how you view it, there are more better and efficient ways of achieving in-game objectives than with a Tactical squad. Get those methods into the list and then you don't need any K1 from your Tacs.

 

On another point, Killhammer method could be expanded to produce a relatively efficient way of rating an army list as a whole, a few teaks to the concept should allow you to determine the K1 and D1 of a list.

[Warp Angel]

Ok, my bit of input....

 

What I see for scoring units is lots of D1 and make S and K1 very small, D1 is increased by the very act of making the unit as unscary relative to anything else you have, due to the low target priority. Therefore the longer it stays a low priority the better its chances of survival. This can be just a small 5 man tac squad with no upgrades in a basic razorback (or a Rhino if you really want to keep the K1 as low as possible). The reasoning goes as such...

 

1. You can get 2 five man squads for about the price of a kitted out 10 man squad, but the 2 5 men squads now both have a moving bunker to hide in, while if you combat squad the 10 man squad only one does so they the squad is actually less durable. Therefore the 2 5 man squads have a higher D1 than the 10 man tac squad.

 

K1 is the total amount of killing firepower that a unit can produce.

K2 is how long it takes to bring that unit into optimum killing distance.

D1 is how tough a unit is.

D2 is how long it takes to die.

S is situatational usefulness.

 

A squad without a heavy weapon has necessarily lower K1, K2, D2, and S than a squad with one. They lose the high strength/low AP/number of shots of the weapon, lowering K1. Fewer bolters reduces the K1 as well. Their K2 is higher (which is worse) because they can't engage from all ranges and must move within 12" to be a real threat to much of anything. D2 dives, since it only takes 2-3 unsaved wounds to start taking away the special models in the squad. A three man tactical squad with no sarge and no weapon upgrades is a sad, sad thing. S drops dramatically as well because you can't count on them withstanding a hail of fire to hold an objective, or inflict enough damage in an assault to make a difference.

 

You can talk about coordinating two combat squads to do the same thing, but the enemy can use two (probably cheaper) squads to counter you. It's much easier to tarpit a 5 man squad than a 10 man squad, and takes a lot less shooting to render a combat squad useless in the creation and maintenance of a kill gap.

 

2. A kitted out 10 man tac squad has a relatively higher K1 than the 5 man squads, so by Kill Hammer definition they'd want to start pounding on the 10 man tac squad...unless the fudge factor S end sup being high for the 5 man Tacs for some reason, but this'll be down to your game play with them.

 

But their D2 is dramatically higher. This makes a difference when there are non-tactical squad units on the table. 10 men is not an EASY kill, 5 men is. It takes far less firepower from an opponent to creat a kill gap against 5 Marines than 10. And honestly, even a full tactical squad should have about the lowest K1 in your army, and should be a late game target priority because of it. The 10 men makes you less prone to incidental shooting.

 

3. If your army contains other high target priorities, you should hope to get the squad past turn 3/4 just by being a low priority, the rest you can do by judicious hiding/running away.

 

As I said above, a tactical squad should always be a low priority target in your army list, regardless of how many men it is. If not, you need to rethink your list, since just about EVERYTHING in a Space Marine army is a better target until later turns in an objectives game.

 

4. No matter how you view it, there are more better and efficient ways of achieving in-game objectives than with a Tactical squad. Get those methods into the list and then you don't need any K1 from your Tacs.

 

Tactical Squads serve as Defenders and Hunters (read my army building article). To do that, they need to be durable AND/OR have a credible threat (which comes in the form of heavy weapons and number of models). A 5 man squad doesn't do that. Can't do that.

 

On another point, Killhammer method could be expanded to produce a relatively efficient way of rating an army list as a whole, a few teaks to the concept should allow you to determine the K1 and D1 of a list.

 

The same army list has completely different Killhammer ratings based upon objective, setup, terrain, and opponent. It wouldn't be useful to come up with a rating system that changes that dramatically and frequently. If you've got some ideas though, I'll be more than happy to work with you and see what we can come up with.

[Rage]

A squad without a heavy weapon has necessarily lower K1, K2, D2, and S than a squad with one. They lose the high strength/low AP/number of shots of the weapon, lowering K1. Fewer bolters reduces the K1 as well. Their K2 is higher (which is worse) because they can't engage from all ranges and must move within 12" to be a real threat to much of anything. D2 dives, since it only takes 2-3 unsaved wounds to start taking away the special models in the squad. A three man tactical squad with no sarge and no weapon upgrades is a sad, sad thing. S drops dramatically as well because you can't count on them withstanding a hail of fire to hold an objective, or inflict enough damage in an assault to make a difference.

 

Well actually a 5 man tac in razorback has a high K1 (36" heavy bolter) therefore a low K2 as it doesn't need to get close. D2 stays high as it is out of range of all but the heaviest weapons, which should be firing at other high priority targets. D1 stays high as they are in a tank and therefore can't be shot at until they pop the tank, even then they need to clear out the tac squad after. 2 five man squads in razorbacks are going to be more durable by a long way as the enemy have to blow both tanks before they can get to the soft chewy centre. Then he has to use at least 2 units to kill them in the next turn.

 

Now look at 10 man tac build with either a rhino or razorback.

 

A ten man barrelling forward in a rhino will have a higher K1 but the K2 will increase as it can't produce any kill from range, as well as the flamer needs to be within a few inches for the proper coverage. The D1 will not be high as you will be jumping out of the rhino into the face of the enemy therefore losing the protection of the tank. The D2 will also face plant as it will not survive very long in the face of an enemy battle line, especially anything with a high K1. Used thids way they become high priority as a threat and as a way of ridding you oof a scoring unit.

 

Now if you combat squad a 10 man squad to have that heavy weapon you get a higher K1 as you can have 2 heavy weapons (RB + squad HW) as well as a low K2...fine and dandy so far, the problem occurs with D1, the razorback squad is the same as the 5 man squad but the HW squad is lower due to no tank to hide in, which also as you state is kind of sad to lose a squads heavy weapon...so a low D1 and D2 in comparison.

 

Talking of tarpits, a 5 man squad isn't likely to be tarpitted, it'll just get wiped off the bored...the 10 man unit on the otherhand is much more affected by tarpit units,.

 

Admittedly I'm looking at tac squads to survive the game and hold objective, which is pretty much their key role in a game.

 

Tactical Squads serve as Defenders and Hunters (read my army building article). To do that, they need to be durable AND/OR have a credible threat (which comes in the form of heavy weapons and number of models). A 5 man squad doesn't do that. Can't do that.

 

Defenders yes, hunters no, there are better things to do the job. A 5 man tac is about half the price of a 10 man tac, so you get 2 and 2 tanks, that is much more durable due to all the extra targets that need to be cleaned out.

[Gornall]

Defenders yes, hunters no, there are better things to do the job. A 5 man tac is about half the price of a 10 man tac, so you get 2 and 2 tanks, that is much more durable due to all the extra targets that need to be cleaned out.

 

And twice as many KPs. :) I think 10 man squads buy you a lot more flexibility as you can stay together if the situation warrants it (KP missions) or can combat squad if needed. To me, 5 man squads are nothing more than speedbumps, with or without a Razorback. Especially if dealing with opponents with higher Initiative. An Eldar Exarch with PW is going to kill a couple of Marines the turn they charge before you get to attack back. If that's a 5 man squad with another 5 man squad next to it, your surviving 2-3 guys aren't going to do much (even less if you lose your PF). Next turn, you charge in with the other 5 tacticals, but you can't shoot pistols, so it's pretty much the same thing over again. However, had that been a 10 man squad, then instead of 2-3 attacking back with a good chance of losing your PF, now you get to hit back with 7-8 guys (one with a PF for sure). That really evens the odds and makes the opposing player think twice. Just my thoughts though.

[Rage]

Yup twice as many KP's, twice as many objectives i can claim...that's the beutty of the Objective vs kill point mission system, one will be strong in one type, weak in another. Though the combat squading is a little weak due to no transport for the 2nd squad.

 

Is the Eldar Exarch all on his lonesome then? Or does he have the rest of his effeminate psychos chums with him? If so that 10 man tac squad is just as dead as the 5 man squad...while the other 5 marines jump back in their ride and disappear over the horizon. Actually it's not a problem, those 5 marines can charge the Exarch without being struck back and dump 15 attacks on him...he is toast!

 

I assume that you don't advocate combat squading in most situations, since you say that 5 men are just a speed bump?

[Gornall]

I'm not saying that 5 man squads of Marines don't have their uses. I run 2 tactical squads and one generally gets split (it has a Razorback and a Plasma Cannon) while the other (in a Rhino with PF) does not. However, in some games I split both, and some games I don't split either. That's the point I think was trying to be made. 10 man squads give you more options (Heavy/Special Weapons, Combat Squadding, etc) over two 5 man squads. You can always break a 10 man down into 2 fives (albeit without transport), but we can't do the IG method of blobbing them together.

 

As for the Exarch example, his/her compadres aren't going to kill but maybe 1-2 Marines, all but wiping out the 5 man squad (but leaving survivors in the 10 man). Best case, they slaughter them to the man (and take zero wounds themselves) allowing you to shoot them up next turn. Worst case (and more likely) they kill all but 1-2 of the Marines who maybe kill 1 or 2 Eldar, but still survive just long enough to die on your turn, allowing them to attack something else. Yes, you can load up the other squad and run away, but then you're allowing them to control ground (possibly an objective) while you lost 5 good men (/sniff) for nothing. However, as you indicated, sometimes 5 men squads can absorb nasty blows that would kill a full 10 man just as easily (Genestealers), so it's very situational. I just prefer to have the option of staying as a 10 man to avoid KPs but still being able to Combat Squad if needed.

[Rage]

You're right they do give you more options. just not enough in my eyes. I'd rather have mobile heavy weapons such as RBW's, Speeders, Attack bikes, tanks etc. That way you can get better angles and get the hell out of dodge if you need to.

 

His buds only kill 1-2 marines! Really? What squads do you run into? Even a 10 man unit of scorpions will do more than that (lets not even mention those tin can opening harpies!)...4 attacks each on the charge, 18 hits, 9 wounds 3 dead, plus what the exarch (+ PF) does 2 more dead. So just 5 but the marines will only do about 1.5...then you take a Ld test at -3/4, so a high chance of legging it, if you get caught you'll probably lose 1 more so at the end of the day you lose 6 and you're still stuck in combat with a unit that will destroy you in the next phase....plus i didn't even mention firing the pistols first before assaulting (1-2 more)! Another point you're now stuck in CC for another round without being able to shoot the swines, I'd rather they died to a man and then was able to gun the suckers down.

 

So to sum up that rather confusing mess, I lost 5 men and can shoot them, you've lost 10 men and weren't able to shoot them....in both cases they took barely any casualties....and the morale of the story is don't let tac squads anywhere near CC units unless you want to lose them, thus the tac squad should be seen as a ground holder that moves in after the area has been cleared by the killing power of the rest of the army and the only threat is long range shooting.

[Gornall]

I was talking about Dire Avengers/Warp Spiders (things fairly similar to Tactical squads)... Or even a small group of Scorpions. If your Tacticals get charged by a full group of Scorpions or a group of Banshees/Harlequins, then you've got bigger concerns of whether to bring 5 or 10 men. But yeah, in that case, having a full tactical squad would be worse than a combat squad. Once again, it's situational and what best fits your playstyle. You'd rather have the transport and extra firepower another Razorback brings. I'd rather have the option of sticking together and have the free special/heavy weapons. That way they at least have something to do while they wait for the area to get cleared such as shoot at transports attempting to bring in CC units to clean me off my objective.

[Resv]

I don't know if you have read the original article but yes combat squading is not fondly thought of. Yes, I am sure you can claim twice as many objectives but getting there and holding on to them might propose a problem. You win just as well if you are able to hold onto one or two objectives firmly and challenge the others. How many objectives and at what points do your normally play? The play style of 4 objectives at 1000 points might be far different from 4 objectives at 1500.

 

There is something to say for presenting as many targets of opportunity but when those targets don't pose much of a challenge the argument is a bit moot. Every Marine in your 5 man squad is precious to the viability of said squad. Not to mention that a 5 man squad is far more vulrable to heavy weapons or special weapons. Imagine dealing with two melta, 4 plasma shots, a plasma cannon blast, or any number of things that would normally be fired at a Tactical Squad. Where a full 10 man unit might lose two or three Marines a 5 man squad loses half of its available fire and attacks. No shape at all to effectively hold anything nor really challenge in an assault.

[Warp Angel]

Yup twice as many KP's, twice as many objectives i can claim...that's the beutty of the Objective vs kill point mission system, one will be strong in one type, weak in another. Though the combat squading is a little weak due to no transport for the 2nd squad.

 

Is the Eldar Exarch all on his lonesome then? Or does he have the rest of his effeminate psychos chums with him? If so that 10 man tac squad is just as dead as the 5 man squad...while the other 5 marines jump back in their ride and disappear over the horizon. Actually it's not a problem, those 5 marines can charge the Exarch without being struck back and dump 15 attacks on him...he is toast!

 

I assume that you don't advocate combat squading in most situations, since you say that 5 men are just a speed bump?

 

Annihilation is a victory condition for your army in every scenario.

You only need to hold one objective to win an objectives game. Contest or destroy your opponent to keep him from claiming one of his own.

 

It's obvious that you and I differ on our Killhammer assessments of a 5 man tactical squad. You see a 5 man squad in a Razorback being a good thing. I see it being a speedbump. And if I want that 5 man squad in a razorback, for a piddling handful of points more, I get that 5 man squad in a razorback and more marines, getting to choose whether or not I give the enemy 2 or 3 kill points (including the razorback). I have vastly more game S by having flexibility to deploy as 5 or 10 man squads.

 

You see no S value in that choice.

 

We will differ, and your opinion is entirely valid for your playstyle and your play environment. My opponents would eat you alive if you fielded 5 man squads.

[Rage]

Ah dire avengers, ok then....they can't shoot the tac squad in a razorback, I kill them at my leisure Bwahahahahaha!

 

I think you've missed my point that i was making about durability, they hang back out of harms way taking shots with the HB then move up and take the objective late game...bingo a high D1 and D2 as well as some sort of K2. Then when they do reach the objective they don't get out unless the RB is blown up at which point they still have to kill the marines.

 

@ Warp Angel: Yep, annihilation is the name of the game...tac squads ain't going to do the annihilating for you, that's the other stuffs job. And when you say piddling, do you honestly believe ~100 pts is piddling? As you say S is a fudge factor, purely based on the situation so who actually knows what it'll be until the situation arrives. Also a speedbump implies that it's going to be placed in front of things to destroy it, that as i have continued to say is not what would be the game plan, since distance is just important to survival as numbers! Maybe you should add P to your equation...Playstyle, I don't expect my tacs do to a thing apart from survive, you expect them to attack therefore they need the wounds.

 

Also, seriously, saying your gamer group would eat me alive, really is that kind of needed? Since on the opposite hand i may come over and pound you all, but then I'd never be arrogant or chirlish enough to suggest that.

[Warp Angel]

His buds only kill 1-2 marines! Really? What squads do you run into? Even a 10 man unit of scorpions will do more than that (lets not even mention those tin can opening harpies!)...4 attacks each on the charge, 18 hits, 9 wounds 3 dead, plus what the exarch (+ PF) does 2 more dead. So just 5 but the marines will only do about 1.5...then you take a Ld test at -3/4, so a high chance of legging it, if you get caught you'll probably lose 1 more so at the end of the day you lose 6 and you're still stuck in combat with a unit that will destroy you in the next phase....plus i didn't even mention firing the pistols first before assaulting (1-2 more)! Another point you're now stuck in CC for another round without being able to shoot the swines, I'd rather they died to a man and then was able to gun the suckers down.

 

9 striking scorpions have 36 S4 attacks on the charge. They hit with 18 of them. They wound with 9. 3 Marines die. The exarch kills 1 or 2. That's a whole combat squad gone.

 

With 10 Marines, sarge is probably still alive. That's probably 2 dead Eldar and likely another full game turn of them being locked up with what's left of your tactical squad. A 5 man squad won't last until the beginning of the Eldar player's next turn.

[Resv]

With 10 Marines, sarge is probably still alive. That's probably 2 dead Eldar and likely another full game turn of them being locked up with what's left of your tactical squad. A 5 man squad won't last until the beginning of the Eldar player's next turn.

 

And they get a free move during consolidation which could take them all the closer to being able to assault another one of your units, move into cover for extra protection, or take or challenge an objective.

[Rage]

9 striking scorpions have 36 S4 attacks on the charge. They hit with 18 of them. They wound with 9. 3 Marines die. The exarch kills 1 or 2. That's a whole combat squad gone.

 

Good! I can shoot them now...the best way to deal with CC troops. So basically I lose 90pts, in return i've drawn out and could possibly destroy a ~190pt unit. Me thinks I'd be happy with that.

 

With 10 Marines, sarge is probably still alive. That's probably 2 dead Eldar and likely another full game turn of them being locked up with what's left of your tactical squad. A 5 man squad won't last until the beginning of the Eldar player's next turn.

 

Not really, if you take into account shooting before they assault you'll be down ~7 marines (possibly the PF due to taking 9 wounds after losing a couple to their shooting) by the end of the Eldar assault phase and they've lost maybe 2, in your assault phase the last marines die and the scorps can move on to cause more damage with only a few casualties. I know what you're saying but even a 10 man tac squad cannot stand up to a decent CC unit.

[Paulochromis]

Interesting debate.

I'm curious as to whether "blending" 2 small units (I think Corpse demonstrated some "patterns") for mutual cover has any impact?

Also, transport-wise can a Rhino, with capacity for 10 models, carry models from different units simultaneously?

I know the Drop Pod can, up to the moment it lands and the troops disembark.

It might be cool to put both combat squads in a rhino, carry them to a good vantage point, drop the HW squad off there and carry on into battle with the sarge+special.

 

Cheers, Paul.