Blood Claws

[rahl02]

So I played a game last night with a good friend of mine, and we played a 2k tourny list. The lists as a whole don't matter but more just a single close combat.

 

My friend had a Chaos Lord with Lightning claws and a Termy squad with MoK. They charged my Bloodclaws 8 man 2 PF and a Leader with LC, which using the FAQ about counter charge passed my LD test and allowed my Claws their Beserk Charge ability granting +2 attacks.

 

Well at the end of the combat he killed my squad, which costs roughly 235 points with out the rhino. While his costs around 500pts.

 

After the game we discussed the situation between the FaQ stateing BC get +2 and in the rulebook clearly stating they get a +1 attack bonus for counter attacking.

 

In the RB it states they get the +1 attack bonus as if though they had charged. Since the BC aren't actually charging I honestly don't think they should get the +2 attacks on the counter attack. I'm sure I'll catch some crap from other Wolf players, but I wouldn't want to be labled a cheater for bending and breaking rules. I'm sure in a tourney setting it wouldn't be allowed at all. Since it's as clear as black and white, there is no room for interpritation(sp?). They're counter attacking not counter charging. Until Games Workshop actually mentions they get +2 an official FaQ I'll stand by the +1 attack.

 

Now being a SW player I do like the idea of my blood claws getting a total of 4 attacks each and 3 PF attacks each. Unfortunately it is a little unsettling. That basically turnes the BC's into the cheapest most powerfull close combat unit in the game. Now I know I'll see alot of posts saying Genestealers can kill the Claws first, or Banshee's can kill them, but the way it was looked at was point for point. For the stealers to get anywhere near the killing power and survivablility(sp?) is by unit upgrades such as scything talens and extended carapace. Which puts their cost 60 points more if you use equal model count. Running with 8 BC 2 with PF and a Leader with LC it's more than 100pts more.

 

Oh and if anyone wants to know, I started playing the wolves just as 3rd kicked off, and did have a 2nd ed codex before it was wisked away to Iceland when I was in High school.

 

For Russ

[Vassakov]

I disagree. Admittedly, this is a unique circumstance as to my knowledge no other unit has Counter Attack and a Charge Modifier but almost every group to my knowledge has ruled that BC's get the charge bonus exactly as if they charged. To me this means treat the unit as if they charged - which means all bonuses come into play.

 

I would hope this gets cleared up, but never mind.

[WG Vrox]

yep, treat the CC unit as if they charge and the +1 is an example of what it refers too, not the RAW, so in the case of the BCs its +2.

 

 

WG Vrox

[Grey Mage]

The key phrase is actually in the beserker charge rule. It says they gain +2 attacks when they charge rather than the +1 that would normally be the case.

 

Countercharge says that you get a +1 bonus as if you had charged.

 

Thus Bloodclaws get +2 attacks.... see?

[WolfLordLars]

Grey Mage said it. Counter charge gives you +1, Berserk charge replaces the +1 and gives you +2. Its all legit (and fun!)

[muzzyman1981]

If you want to look at it from a fluff point of view....most units stand their ground and wait for the charging unit to hit them. Blood Claws practically get pissed that THEY are being charged so before they get hit they take off out of their position and lay the beat down on the enemy crazy enough to charge them.

[Wulfen00]

Yep BC get the +2, making SW horrible to charge or be charged. Again we are the CC marines.

[G. A. K.]

They be a cheap unit but they pay for it with WS/BS 3! The berzerk charge attacks are a way to even them out. Without it, i doubt anyone would use them at all.

 

G

[Jonny Wolf]

Not this argument again...

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

yep this argument again. as you stated the faq says blood claws get 2+ on countercharge. faq and codex trumps rulebook and thats all that has to be said about that

[Jonny Wolf]

Not to mention the other 20 or so threads on this topic. lol :tu:

[Wulfen00]

Thats almost enough threads to make a dress for our DA brothers. Or a rag to clean my gun with :) .

[Ragnars Claw]

Which FAQ says they get +2 attacks?

 

The one on the GW website doesn't unless i missed it. Anyone with a link?

[the jeske]

read the counter charge rule and the read the berserker rule. one say that if BC would get a charge bonus they get +2Attacks and the other says that the unit acts as if it charged .

[Grey Mage]

Which FAQ says they get +2 attacks?

 

The one on the GW website doesn't unless i missed it. Anyone with a link?

It doesnt even require a FAQ. It just requires one to read the rules as written.