The History and Legacy of Dorn's Betrayal

[lee265]

This is excellent and I am as always waiting for the next artcle now because it is that good.

[Ferrata]

However I would like to ask Aurelius Rex if the traitor legions had purged their ranks, and if they did how they did it.

I can only answer for the White Scars but Jaghatai was forced to purge his ranks. He did this by leaving all those he believed would not follow him on Chogoris. If the forces of Chaos were victorious, he could return and either slaughter them at his will or they might join him. If Chaos lost, the Imperium would mop them up.

 

As for the other Legions, with only the Raven Guard and Ultramarines being traitors they are special cases. The Raven Guard genetically fell and maybe didn't have a choice whilst the Ultramarines never really fell and were truely betrayed - by everyone.

[Allfather1]

thanks Ferrata, that clears it up for the most part however this still leaves the imperial fists, the salamanders, Iron Hands, space wolves, blood angels, dark angels.

I know that these IA are not yet done but if it was anything like the purgeing in the Norm' verse, you would think the Imperium knew about it.

[Phoebus]

I'd like to offer my kudos to the folks behind this thread. It's very well done, and it's a credit to your imagination that it also seems very plausible. Some of the changes you offered struck me as the way things should have been--the White Scars, for instance, fit the role of the Emperor's Children much better, being natural reavers and raiders.

 

The only minute hole that I could find in all this technically popped up after this project began: the short story "After Desh'ea" shows that Angron's rages were far more uncontrollable than we could have thought, and that, tragically, imposing his self-control was probably an impossibility. Again, though, based on the material that was available prior to that story, I think your proposal fits and does the characters involved justice.

 

Well done!

[Aurelius Rex]

Thanks again to Ferrata for doing the White Scars proud. It was great to see the Slaaneshi Cult Legion being handled in such a way took them in a different direction to the Norm-'verse Emperor's Children. These White Scars are far more about greed than the traditional take you get from the Slaaneshi legion, and their fall and later path through darkness fits in seamlessly and logically to my mind.

 

As to loyalists within the traitor legions, Ferrata's take on hew the Scar loyalists were doubly betrayed was one of my favourite parts of the story. :) He also covers the Raven Guard and Ultramarines... Not much scope there.

 

As Allfather says, this leaves the Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Iron Hands, Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels. The keen-eyed will have spotted this section in the overview piece about the Istvaan Betrayal:

It was only the timely intervention of the cruiser, Eisenstein, which had been commandeered by loyalists among the turncoat forces, which allowed even a small percentage of the ambushed legions to fight their way back into orbit, and escape.

So there were some among the traitor legions that resisted their primarchs. :cuss Overall it is a story for the individual IA's, and they are usually so packed that it might not get a mention unless it can fight it's way through the editing process as being worth the space... I won't write about it if there is a story there, not just for the sake of it! However, the Dark Angels had a big civil war when Luther's half of the legion got back to Caliban and was confronted by the Lion's half. I can say that there is no mention of loyal Space Wolves in their IA, and the way the Blood Angel IA is panning out, Sanguinius was rather effective at weeding out anyone who might have turned on him... All I will say here is 'Eeech!' :)

 

@ Phoebus - I really enjoyed "After Desh'ea", and found it by far the highlight of the 'Tales of Heresy' book. I didn't find that it altered my view of how Angron would be in this alternate history, though, as this Angron had previously made a conscious decision to react against the barbarism and loss of control (agression chips etc.) that was being imposed upon him and his companions by the slavers. That, and the fact that The Emperor teleported down to fight alongside him rather than teleport him up and leave his men to die meant that he respected his father rather than deeply resenting his 'imprisonment' as he saw it in the BL story.

 

Hopefully I managed to explain the the pivotal changes to his history and character that made this change to Angron believable. :)

 

Aurelius.

[Phoebus]

Right, and while I felt you did a terrific job in showing how things could have been better, I simply got the impression that the implants didn't leave much room for choice. That's just my take, though. There are certainly many other "what ifs", and neither this one nor they take away from either the fun or plausibility of your story. Again, cheers! :D

[Allfather1]

Thanks that clears it up. Once again I want to see that this is very good.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

very nice- very nice indeed.

 

would never of thought the great Khan to be a slaneeshi icon

 

forgive the bluntness of this next question but i thought dark angels were next?

 

either way very nice work :D look forward to reading more

[Aurelius Rex]

Dark Angels were the plan, but after reading Ferrata's article and how it had investigated the Siege of Terra I got a real hankering to investigate what the Nurgley Blood Angels had been up to in that time period as well.

 

Mind you, the way things turn out the Dark Angels may still get posted here first, but that's another story altogether.

[Allfather1]

In return, he and his marines would submit to the Soul-Binding process. By merging their essences with that of The Emperor, it was claimed, they would be shielded from the horrors and temptations of sorcery.

 

I was just looking through the Raven gaurd section and the it struck me.

If the Thousand Sons were Soul-bound to the Emperor. What kind of effects did it have on them when the Emperor was struck down?

And could the Emperor use the Thousand Sons as his hand in realspace?

 

I know this will be handled in the IA of the Thousand Sons, but then it made me think, if the majority of the Imperium doesn't know how do the Thousand Sons keep their secret hidden (if there is any).

 

Don't hesitate to cut me down merciless if I am asking stupid questions, but I just can't wait for the next installment.

[Aurelius Rex]

I would actually really enjoy game rules based on your alternate heresy .

This was discussed in the background, but as I wouldn't claim to be an expert on rules or to be able to craft a balanced armylist, I just left it so that reading the article - especially the Combat Doctrine sections - should give enough clues to create characterful forces.

 

Although... if anyone wants to take a shot at this themselves then feel free, as I would love to see what you come up with! :huh:

 

@Allfather1 -

 

If the Thousand Sons were Soul-bound to the Emperor. What kind of effects did it have on them when the Emperor was struck down?

And could the Emperor use the Thousand Sons as his hand in realspace?

 

I know this will be handled in the IA of the Thousand Sons, but then it made me think, if the majority of the Imperium doesn't know how do the Thousand Sons keep their secret hidden (if there is any).

The Thousand Sons IA was a fun one to write. The Soul-binding is an important part of their history - it is the reason that Tzeentch couldn't get his claws into Magnus and why he instead went after the Raven Guard, after all. It also allows Magnus to continue his telepathic communion with The Emperor long after He lapses into the coma of the Astronomicon, which opens up another interesting plot point which I will leave for the IA itself.

 

By the way, what secret were you referring to?

[Allfather1]

Thanks, Aurelius Rex, that clears much up.

I was refering to flaws that the Thousand Sons may suffer because of the drama of the Emperor's fall.

 

by the way when can we expect the next IA.

[Skritz]

Im curious about the Thousand Sons. The alternate World Eaters really changed thier mindset and im curious to see if the sons of Magus turned away from psychic powers.

 

Edit: Oops, forgot to read the earlier post. Can't wait to hear about the Thousand Sons.

[Brother Captain Alaric]

Looking forward to the next update.

[Skritz]

I was wondering: Any "official" info on the traitor color scheme? I think we all have our own version in our heads but im curious to see Aurelius own take on it.

[Kelbor-Hal]

Man, this anticipation is killing me... Ihave to admit I like this alternate heresy more than the real thing. Keep up the good work :D (Waiting for the color schemes too, it could be interesting.)

[Skritz]

I noticed some interresting deviation in the storyline.

 

From IA-Emperor's Children:

Modifications such as the Tilvius APC or the brutish Vindicator are looked upon as at best a corruption of the purity of the venerable Rhino chassis. Even smaller variants in weapon system such as the Predator Dominator and the Land Raider Incinerator are shunned.

[Kelbor-Hal]

Ok, I'm getting a bit impatient here. Does begging speed up the process? :)

[Aurelius Rex]

Apologies for the absence from this thread - it has been caused by getting something really special organised for the Dornian Heresy. I can't say too much at the moment, but it will involve two and hopefully three new articles, an easier to read format and stonking original artwork of the Dornian Heresy legions. :D

 

More details soon. :D

 

Aurelius.

[Skritz]

original artwork

 

This just made my day. :P

[Kelbor-Hal]

It's 'kay, boss. You's da bigest an' da meanest. (The two words - "original artwork" - kicked me back to level ork :D -> I only hope they're going to go by the high expectations of mine.)

[ZSpartan]

I just read through the whole thing you guys have posted and it is great. In some ways better than official fluff, I think that if this was the background for the Ultra's they would be my fav. chapter by far. Great work gentlemen keep'em coming :)

[Draketh Firewind]

Yes I must say that this is all exellent and agree that this does make more sense then the currest Horus Hersey in some places though personally can not wait for the Space Wolves Alternate history to come out!

[AGPO]

I really like how the different traitor chapters all have a new feel to them - you haven't just turned the Space Wolves into the World Eaters, the Blood Angels into the Death Guard and so on.

 

How much do you invisage the Ultramarines changing? Their relationship with the Tau struck me as interesting. Ultramar's relationship with other races would no doubt shape their progression - are they more welcoming to Xenos than the Imperium? Without the AdMech to hold them back I wonder where their technology would go? Would the Rhino and Land Raider variants still be in service along with the bolter, or would they be equipped with more advanced technology. The Ultramarines would probablly have no access to post-heresy gear such as mark VII armour, land raider crusaders and vindicators. I'd see Ultramar forces as using a blend of crusade-era, traded Tau and new technology.

 

It'd be interseting to expand this altverse with a few IX articles on the likes of the Tau and Eldar. Also the Imperial Army and how it has changed over 10,000 years, as well as what happened to other orders and characters like the Grey Knights would make good reads. Would Sigismund have launched his own equivalent of the 'black crusades' (I know this name is already spoken for). How would Ultramar have responded? Would it have stepped in like the Eldar to defend the galaxy against Chaos, or would they have been opportunistic and tried to claim more new worlds from the Imperium? Were they simply too tied up with the Tau and the Nids? Maybe Lord Solar Mecharius dedicated his crusade to reclaiming Ultramar rather than the Galactic Fringes.

 

The Malal inspired Salamanders sound great, I've been doing mock ups of the various traitors on Marine Painter since I read it and the Khornate Space Wolves really caught my interest - plus Space Wolves on Juggers gives you a good reason to ditch that crappy 'Thunderwolf' model.

 

Some quick questions though:

- Dorn seems quite unpopular in the alt'verse, whilst in the norm'verse both he and Horus are highly respected. Do you intend to write some alt'verse Primarchs who actually like and respect Dorn? I'm just having a little trouble seeing how he inspired this rebellion and got to be the Emperor's Praetorian if he's always rubbing people up the wrong way.

 

- Have you got any thoughts on how the colour schemes of the traitor legions would change? I'm guessing some would change utterly (ala Word Bearers in the norm'verse) while others would stay pretty similar (ala Night Lords). Do the Space Wolves, White Scars and Blood Angels follow the 'cult marine' archetypes in the norm'verse, or do they get their own identity like the Ravenguard? Here's some schemes I've been kicking around on army painter for the SW, Salies and WS

 

 

- As the norm'verse Black Templars and Black Legion carry the heraldry of Sigismund and Horus/Abaddon respectively, who gets what aspects of each armies' character in the alt'verse? (It's difficult to know how to explain this clearly, s I shall refer to the norm'verse forces by name and the alt'verse legions as 'Sigismund's Legion' and 'Abaddon's Legion' respecitvely.) For example, the Black Legion retained the eye of Horus as their icon when they changed from the Sons of Horus. Obviously this icon is reviled by Sigismund's Legion, so do they retain the 'Fist' icon of Dorn, take the Templar Cross of Sigismund or adopt something new, the chaos star maybe? Likewise do Abaddon's legion keep the eye (in it's pre-heresy form), take the Templar Cross (as the symbol of an ancient Terran order), or maybe take their own symbol.

 

- As Jetbike technology still exists (as it is maintained by the Emperor's Children and - one can assume - the Ultramarines) does this mean it is still common place. Would Space Marine bike squads now be redundant?

 

- Would scouts exist, and in what form? Obviously the chapters in the norm'verse changed their methods of recruitment but would the same call for more stringency (perhaps led by the examples of the ECs and the Raven Guard) occur in the alt'verse. Maybe the neophyte system of the BTs would be adopted. If they don't exist, who does the recon for alt'verse legions? I'm guessing Ultramar chapters follow the norm'verse codex, just with different gear.

[Kelbor-Hal]

Boy, this sure takes long...