vindicator yey or ney?

[dark_angel_345]

Hey guys what are your oppinions on these things?

Im looking to add a bit of armour to my 1000 point khorne list

Im looking for either a vindicator or a preditor

I will get a defiler one day but im just looking at these two for the time being

mainly fight marines and orks

So a nice high ap pie dish would be welcomed

So what do you guys recomend?

Thanks

[doctor_wu]

vindicators are good and fun. However they are scary. They are good against marines as they get no armor save. I think the vindicators are better than predators. The pie plates are nice. Deamonic possession is also nice. I like ramming with mine. Then I say it is possessed by a deamonete.

[minigun762]

Typically the Vindicator is a better bet. Buy it Daemonic Possession and you're good to go. The biggest drawback is the weaker side armor, so screening it with a Rhino isn't a bad idea. On the other hand you can simply rush it forward, pop smoke and use it as a fire magnet.

[Cale]

A vindicator is pretty routinely better than a similarly-expensive predator. Definitely ye.

 

The only thing I use predators for is cheap, mobile lascannons. 105 points buys you a twin-linked lascannon that moves 6 and fires from a pretty resilient chassis. Nothing in the codex provides better lascannons for the price. But, in general, I do like vindies better.

[Kushan Blackrazor]

I prefer Predators as my lists favor stand-off and shoot tactics...the vindicators really only come into their own when you aggressively move forward with them. But I would agree points and statistic-wise they're probably the better buy.

[Schultzhoffen]

I play Death Guard and Black Templars. Templars are a CC army similar in some ways to a Bezerker army and I really wanted to add a vindicator but I asked myself one question: Do I really want a vehicle that will shoot an Ordinance pie plate that can scatter onto my rapidly advancing army? This question led to others: My army aims to be in CC by Turn 2, how many shots will I get? Wouldn't a tri-las pred would be a MUCH better bet v armour as my troops handle infantry?

 

In the end I went shooty dread and x2 Multi melta attack bikes, but you get the drift.

 

However, my Templars number more than 70 marines (1850pts) on the ground so the very real threat of friendly fire looms large for me. Perhaps not so much for you, depending on your list, transports, etc.

 

I agree that a Vindicator is a wonderful psychological weapon that will force your opponent to rethink his battle plans and for that reason alone is worth taking.

[the jeske]

vindicators are too easy to destroy , because of their weak side and rear armor . any form of drop pods /outflankers etc just blows them up . predators are ok when they are a cheap dakka pred [what generally means anti tank/anti meq is covered by other units] . las preds cost too much pts and a simple shakes makes them do nothing . possesion lowers their chance to hit [and does nothing to improve the blowing up problem] and makes them cost even more pts . one fits in a 1850 lists ..problem is hvy support should be spamed so 2 are needed [minimum]. this forced a player to cut on meta choices and HQs/troops . chaos has one form of lascanons and its oblits .

[Sons of Horus]

vindicators are great especially for games that use a lot of terrain. the massive demolisher cannon has very short range but it will most likely wipe out anything under it. i would prefer obliterators though since they are more versatile.

[Dràyhèn]

Vindicator is a great psychological weapon and it's nice to force someone to rethink his plans, and does massive damage to anything foolish enough to get underway. They're fun to play, especially with lash(es). However as jeske pointed out, their side and rear armour is a bit too vulrenable, anything that uses ds or other means of dropping, will surely crack 'em up with little effort. You really have to use two at least to make them work. But in fun games, go ahead and pick one. Surely oblits would be better, but vindies are funnier to use IMO.

[Cale]

vindicators are too easy to destroy , because of their weak side and rear armor . any form of drop pods /outflankers etc just blows them up . predators are ok when they are a cheap dakka pred [what generally means anti tank/anti meq is covered by other units] . las preds cost too much pts and a simple shakes makes them do nothing . possesion lowers their chance to hit [and does nothing to improve the blowing up problem] and makes them cost even more pts . one fits in a 1850 lists ..problem is hvy support should be spamed so 2 are needed [minimum]. this forced a player to cut on meta choices and HQs/troops . chaos has one form of lascanons and its oblits .

 

Eh, oblits are flatly easier to kill than a Predator. Even two of them--which is more expensive than any predator worth playing--are going to drop to the majority of anti-tank weapons faster and more reliably than will a pred.

 

I do like oblits, but if what you want is a lascannon, the Predator for 105 points is a flatly better investment than an Oblit for 75.

[Epic Thoughts]

If it was my choice, I'd go with a dakka pred every time. Cheap and effective. An autocannon predator also tends to get a lot less attention, and subsequently, take a lot less fire, then a vindicator will.

[minigun762]

Its funny people's opinions on things. I can't say that someone is right or wrong, but for me if I was to use a Predator (other than the Dakka Predator) I still hold that the AC/LC combo is the best. 130 points for 3 heavy weapons with a 48" range and unless you're firing at a Land Raider, the AutoCannon isn't wasted.

Its main allure is how cheap it is. If someone wants to deep strike something in to kill it, thats fine because that thing will probably be about as expensive.

[doctor_wu]

I think the Autocannon lascannon would be a good one but i have yet to try it out. I still like my vindicator though.

[eyescrossed]

Could someone tell me what daemonic possession does? I'm miles away from a CSM codex and I'm starting chaos marines right after my daemons.

[storm bringer]

I'm new to CSMs but as I undertstand it Daemonic posession allows your vehicle to ignore shaken or stunned results, but your BS drops to 3. What I'm not clear on is if that means BS3 all game (I hope not!) or just when you would have taken a shaken/stunned result? Can someone enlighten me?

[Cale]

All game.

 

From a fluff perspective, you've gotten rid of the Marine crew entirely and replaced that with some foul Warp Entity. The warp entity never gets shook up, but it's also just not as good a shot!

 

Ultimately, DP is worth it on the Vindicator, since it uses the Blast rules, and the Land Raider, since all its weapons are twin-linked anyway (3/4 to hit is a drop from 8/9 to hit, but not really that much of one).

[minigun762]

Ultimately, DP is worth it on the Vindicator, since it uses the Blast rules, and the Land Raider, since all its weapons are twin-linked anyway (3/4 to hit is a drop from 8/9 to hit, but not really that much of one).

 

True, a TL'd BS3 weapon is still superior to a normal BS4 weapon by 9% approximately.

 

Defiler comes stock with the Daemonic Possession but again all its weapons are either Blast, TL'd or Template so the BS3 means little.

[the jeske]

I do like oblits, but if what you want is a lascannon, the Predator for 105 points is a flatly better investment than an Oblit for 75.

hmm against a sw pod list or mecha eldar the pred is going to get stuned and will never get used + i will still have to hide it [what is rather hard with the LoS rules we have right now] . Oblits can be deep striked against those army builds .I can cover oblits from incoming fire with rhinos , I can do the same thing with predators . I dont really worry about the squads that actually see the oblits on the turn they shot , because a pack of 4/6 oblits does huge dmg per turn on any foot slogging squads and I can still give them a +4 cover [easier to hide half an oblit then half a pred]. + its not just the lascanon . its not the 4th anymore [no cheap las minimax etc] . oblits have plasmas that work great with lash , they have plasma guns that can double tap at short range and meltas etc a single, even tri las pred will struggle to stop a land raider ,2 deep striking oblits do the job much better . they even have flamers [but I give you that that I used them like 3 times maybe since the codex came out] . oblits just are more bang for the buck .