10th company tactica

[Jackelope King]

My biggest roadblock is how to get an appropriate Vet Sgt Scout model, how to model it, and what to actually arm him with in the game. I can't help but think Powerfist, but use a warhammer from somewhere instead (a mini Thunderhammer, if you will) AND a combi-flamer. I instantly balk at spending that much on such a cheap model, but 5 scouts are dirt cheap anyway, so I guess it's not too bad to go nuts on the Vet Sgt.

Scouts have the potential to put huge numbers of cheap units on the field, but its the vet sergeants that bring the real killing power to the battles, if your not paying for expensive cloaks, then there is no problem with arming him with fist and combi-wepaon, or sword and meltabombs....

As for the powerfist, if you can find a IG one, they work quite well, infact all Imperial guard spares come in handy when working with scouts....

 

GC08

I've been building all my scouts from combinations of Cadian IG models and Fantasy Wood Elf Glade Guards. Lasguns don't need much modification to pass as really simple sniper rifles (I threw a few scopes on a couple of them). They can also be trimmed down to make some very passable sawed-off shotguns. Cadian squad sprues also give you a total of three chain sword/laspistol arms, and if you have spare bolt pistols really easily (I recently upgraded all my sergeants to robed Dark Angel Veterans). All told, it's a pretty simple and neat-looking conversion, and not too expensive.

[greatcrusade08]

I've been building all my scouts from combinations of Cadian IG models and Fantasy Wood Elf Glade Guards. Lasguns don't need much modification to pass as really simple sniper rifles (I threw a few scopes on a couple of them). They can also be trimmed down to make some very passable sawed-off shotguns. Cadian squad sprues also give you a total of three chain sword/laspistol arms, and if you have spare bolt pistols really easily (I recently upgraded all my sergeants to robed Dark Angel Veterans). All told, it's a pretty simple and neat-looking conversion, and not too expensive.

 

Cool, ive been using some cadian bits on mine actually, i guess great minds think alike ;)

Its as you say though, if you have the bits and it saves money it can only be a good thing...

 

GC08

[Tyron]

I tried writing a list for this army and came out with this.

 

Captain 100

 

10 Scouts 180

9 sniper rifles, heavy bolter, camo cloaks

 

10 Scouts 227

8 sniper rifles, heavy bolter, camo cloaks, telion

 

9 Scouts 137

combi-flamer, ccw, bp, 5 shotguns

 

9 Scouts 137

combi-flamer, ccw, bp, 5 shotguns

 

4 Scout Bikers 110

cluster mines, combi-flamer

 

 

5 Scouts 90

camo cloaks

 

Land Speeder Storm 50

 

Ironclad 145

flamer

 

Drop Pod

 

1 Vindicator 115

 

1 Whirlwind 85

 

1 Whirlwind 85

[greatcrusade08]

Captain 100

 

10 Scouts 180

9 sniper rifles, heavy bolter, camo cloaks

 

10 Scouts 227

8 sniper rifles, heavy bolter, camo cloaks, telion

 

9 Scouts 137

combi-flamer, ccw, bp, 5 shotguns

 

9 Scouts 137

combi-flamer, ccw, bp, 5 shotguns

 

4 Scout Bikers 110

cluster mines, combi-flamer

 

5 Scouts 90

camo cloaks

 

Land Speeder Storm 50

 

Ironclad 145

flamer

 

Drop Pod

 

1 Vindicator 115

 

1 Whirlwind 85

 

1 Whirlwind 85

 

This is a good list, youve added in a mix of heavy firepower that scouts lack, but if i may i would like to give you some pointers....

firstly i presume the 5 man squad is going in the Storm, i would arm these will all shotties, im not sure if the cloaks are necessary as you wont get to use them until they disembark, that being said if its a later turn objective grab the cloaks may pay for themselves...

The Ironclad will be out on his own becuase of the single drop pod coming down on first turn, so i would suggest infiltrating the bikers to back them up, perhaps followed by the two ccw/shottie squads in turn 2

I would either outflank the storm, or use it from the start in a co-ordinated push with the bikers and ironclad, otherwise it will get wasted pretty quick. Id be tempted to upgrade the HB to a heavy flamer or MM depending on your enemy... maybe save points by getting rid of the cloaks on the guys inside the storm...

When i write up a list like this i always take a chapter master for the OB, but thats just personal preference.....

 

good luck

GC08

[Tyron]

Yeah I couldn't afford the points for a chapter master, I wont use this list as I think it would struggle a lot against most armies but it was just something i toyed with after reading this thread. It's a shame they never made a character leader for scouts or done something to make scouts a decent army.

 

Thanks for the tips though and yeah the 5 were gonna be objective grabbers in cover getting 2+ save :P

[greatcrusade08]

I wont use this list as I think it would struggle a lot against most armies

 

From my own experience scouts struggle against MEQ's although i did pull off a hail mary against a DA force, simply because i had all scoring units and he ran out of turns in which to kill me, i think i had 5 models left but still won the game on objectives....

Scouts do really well against deamon forces, just through sheer numbers, and i would suggest this to be true of some eldar and IG armies.... but this has yet to be tested....

 

GC08

[Ryjak]

Scouts for Patrol Games

 

Over the weekend, I was thinking it would be great to turn my Scouts (which usually sit on the shelf in preference to Tactical Squads) into a Patrol Force. In case you're unfamiliar with the Patrol rules, here's what they're using at Adeptecon this year for a tournament:

 

Armies are no more than 400 points

You must have one Troop choice

You may have one HQ choice, but no more than one

Armies are not required to take mandatory unit choices. All other unit restrictions (i.e. 0-1) apply.

You may spend remaining points from anywhere in the Codex.

No model can have more than 2 Wounds.

No model can have a 2+ save.

No Special.Unique/Named Characters are allowed in the Combat Patrol event.

No vehicles with a total Armour value greater than 33. This is calculated by adding the Front, Side and Rear armour numbers. (Only count the Side once).

 

So, with that in mind, here's the basic army I was thinking of taking:

 

2 5-man Scout Squads, armed with BP & CCWs (It's the models I have)

2 Land Speeder Storms

Whirlwind (plan to make a custom model that will look like a Scout Outpost, with Camo Netting and a radio antennae for when they call for fire. The netting will conform to Whirlwind dimentions)

 

All that comes to a base cost of 335 points, leaving 65 points to upgrade these units. What would you suggest I do with those 65 points, especially considering the forces I can expect to face? (Light vehicles and infantry)

[Jackelope King]

My favorite configuration for Land Speeder Storms is with Heavy Flamers at +10 points. It has the advantage of negating the BS 3 issue as a template weapon, and it's a great way to thin out the enemy before the Scouts charge in.

 

You might also consider giving the Sergeant in Scouts squads a power fist (to get the extra wounds to actually take advantage of those launchers on the LSSs). I really like to give my Scout Sergeant a Power Fist alongside a shotgun so that he can get two shots off at BS 4 before he charges. The more enemy models you can kill before the assault phase, the fewer there are to risk wounding your Scouts, so the more likely your opponent is to fall victim to those launchers on the LSS. The fists will also give you some options against light vehicles when you assault.

[greatcrusade08]

JK is on fire....ouch....

anyway as above but throw a few meltabombs around with some spare points, these things are brilliant on scout squads.

 

GC08

[Ryjak]

Unfortunately, I don't quite have the points to give both LSS Heavy Flamers (+20) AND both Vet Sgts Powerfists (+50)... I'm 5 points over! I suppose I could downgrade one Vet Sgt to a Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, and Melta-bombs for exactly 400 points. Or I could get really crazy and give each Scout unit and LSS a "specialization" and improve my overall flexibility while sacrificing redundancy:

 

Assault Package

Scout Squad with BP/CCW, Sergeant armed with shotgun and Powerfist

LSS with Heavy Flamer

 

Distance Package

Scout Squad with BP/CCW, 1 Scout armed with a Heavy Bolter, Sergeant armed with BP, Powersword, and Meltabombs

LSS with Heavy Bolter

 

Artillery Support

Whirlwind

 

This concept probably isn't maximized, but I was thinking the HB LSS could sit back and shoot with 2 HBs (and the Whirlwind) for the first few turns if I didn't want to close with someone right away, allowing the other LSS time to manuever to an ideal attack position or hit an isolated/pinned unit with the Heavy Flamer and Fist.

 

But maybe it'd be better to spend those 10 points for the squad Heavy Bolter on a second Heavy Flamer, or maybe trade out the Vet's Shotgun for a combi-flamer?

[greatcrusade08]

Distance Package

Scout Squad with BP/CCW, 1 Scout armed with a Heavy Bolter, Sergeant armed with BP, Powersword, and Meltabombs

LSS with Heavy Bolter

 

I understand the direction you want to go, but this doesnt make much sense, instead of the HB on the scout squad, which can only fire when the LSS is stationary, use the ten points to upgrade the weapon on the LSS.

Its better to go for a rapid fire shotty or boltgun (i prefer shotties especially as you have a power weapon for assaults), to get 2 shots instead of the HB's 3, plus you retain maneuverability and if you moved 12" and you are engaged in CC they need 6's to hit you.

Think of it like a bee buzzing around enemy units delivering painful stings into the soft parts, once the LSS is taken out or you want to 'push' onto an objective the power weapon and meltabombs come into thier own... which is why you really want shotties for pre assault shooting goodness.

Sure compared to the assualt nature of the 'assault package' this wont be as effective, but you get a huge number of shots at 12" and pre assault shooting (a combi-flamer on sergeants is very useful, especially for attacks into cover), then an assualt with 12 attacks, 4 of which are power weapon and WS4..

Infact if its possible run an assualt with both units for 27 attacks, (4PW, 3PF) and 2 LSS cerberus launchers confering -4LD, its enough to make most people blink ;)

 

GC08

 

Edit: for the same points id run the two 'specialised' LSS teams like this:

 

Assault Package

Scout Squad with BP/CCW, Sergeant armed with combi-flamer and Powerfist

LSS with Heavy Flamer

 

Distance Package

Scout Squad with shotguns, Sergeant armed with BP, Powersword, and Meltabombs

LSS with Heavy Bolter

 

The assualt team gets up close and personal with the dual flamer tactic in assaults, the distance team keeps its range just within the 12" mark, shooting up the next units ready for the assualt squad which would now be on foot, the choice you have would be to leave the disembarked assualt unit on foot and have the flamer LSS run interference, or to re-embark them for another go in the following turn making use of the Cerberus launchers and greater range of the transport.

This will ultimately depend on your opponent. But your distance unit is the back up, as already within 12" they can instantly move up and charge in a single turn, providing instant reinforcements to your assault unit

[Ryjak]

I knew my initial idea wasn't very good, but I think it inspired a pretty good set-up. Your Assault Package is 170 points, your Fire Support package is 145 points, which gets me to 400 points after throwing in the Whirlwind. Thank you for paying attention to my point limits and goals.

 

So I guess the question now is: would I rather run this set-up, or have two Assault units with two Heavy Flamer LSS, BP/CCW, 1 Powerfist, 1 Power Weapon, and 1 Meltabomb? I really like your overall set-up for this Patrol, greatcrusade08, but I think I'll have to go with two Assault units to start, just because of the models I already have. I already have to figure out if I want to try scratch-building two Land Speeder Storms, or wait until GW releases the actual model.

 

Anyone happen to know when the Land Speeder Storm kit is supposed to be released?

[greatcrusade08]

So I guess the question now is: would I rather run this set-up, or have two Assault units with two Heavy Flamer LSS, BP/CCW, 1 Powerfist, 1 Power Weapon, and 1 Meltabomb? I really like your overall set-up for this Patrol, greatcrusade08, but I think I'll have to go with two Assault units to start, just because of the models I already have. I already have to figure out if I want to try scratch-building two Land Speeder Storms, or wait until GW releases the actual model.

This will work pretty well, as individual units they have many uses, the sheer number of attacks makes them pretty strong... Getting the balance between what you want to use and what models you have is always difficult, i use alot of proxies in order to experiment with different set ups, its pointless buying models and then working out you dont need them.

As for the LSS just use speeder proxies, much like firing from rhino hatches, you dont 'have' to show the scouts in the transport.

 

Anyone happen to know when the Land Speeder Storm kit is supposed to be released?

I heard it was part of the "2nd wave" of SM models to be released along with the new ironclad models, conservative estimates are between July and September, but brother Taul once told me it was the start of the new tax year when everyone has more money, in the UK thats the end of April, but hes in Australia so im not sure..

 

GC08

[Brother Tual]

hehhe sharing my secrets? it makes perfect business management sense - release stuff when people have extra cash lying around and pump the stores with new shinny toys that we all 'need'...

 

 

anyway - onto the scouts -

 

5 shottie guys charging MEQ is better than 5 CCW weapon guys -

 

2 x str 4 shots with saves + 2 CC attacks at str 4 intiative 4 hitting on 4+ (they have to have a big kick up to make you hit on 5's)

 

vs - 1 shot at str 4 and then 3 x str 4 attacks at intiative 4 -

 

The numbers are the same BUT shooting as you go in reduces return attacks, where as your combat attacks dont.. intiative 4 - this opens you up to more losses and a lower combat modifier result -

 

Vs intiative 3 (IG, Tau... anything else?) the CCW scouts are on top but only because they get more attacks in combat and gives a bigger kick to the modifier.. but vs these troops you dont NEED that extra kick... in fact, you dont want to smash them up too badly - you want to hang in combat so you dont get hung out and shot to bits...

 

 

Vs intiative 5 - the shotty scouts shine brighter - you get your shots in before they strike - the CCW scouts are going to be reduced heavily with each loss -

 

 

the other kick shotties have over CCW scouts is that they do the drive by alot better - its hard to take out a speeder in combat - most combat troops need 6's to glance the thing or cant hurt it at all... lasguns just make your speeder sparkle a little brighter, and that can only make Marneus smile, he will probably get in on the action to make his Bling bling ... bling... Drive bys are perfect for LSS with your scoring units on-board - last thing you want is to be stuck just off the objective with something dumb like scarabs or something equally as annoying.. Harlies HATE LSS with 5 shotties on board... trust me on that one..

[Ryjak]

Just wanted to point out that while Shotguns are generally superior to BP/CCW on the charge, espeically out of a LSS, the BP/CCW will perform better in a protracted engagement. They'll also kill more guys if the Bolt Pistol's AP5 comes into play. Of course, you probably don't want your Scouts in a protracted engagement, but sometimes the best laid plans fall victim to that 40K disrupter: dice.

[CaptinLoken]

I been playing a few games recently with my Scout army. There is a few things still left in this thread that we could possibly push out. SO NECRO if you must.

 

The first point dug up from the grave is Combat Squads. I wasn't able to see in the C:SM where you can't split a squad and put one of these units in a Storm. The issue draws mainly because I been using full units to always leave me the option at the beginning of the game to possibly split or keep them together. I know that for many cases the codex's differ. Example Drop pods in the New BA dex only allows 10 models. Striking difference from the Standard dex which allows 12. I am only suggesting that the Valina marines may have this option still open to them since they lack special chapter rules.

 

Second point is that of Camo Cloaks.

 

I been running a large number of Camo Cloaks in my army and been playing aggressive in the first few turns of the Dawn of war Missions. Most recently I used about 4 combat squads and removed most of my enemies units on the first turn. This was achieved by using rules and camo cloaks.

 

Telion has an acute Sense so there is almost no need to set him in infiltrate. He will with his squad notice enemies from a range and be able to most likely fire. The next note is that If you do set a ML with 4 other scouts they will be 18 -12 inches in the front of the enemy army and be in the eye of the storm. It is a risky move to shove a unit out here but for scouts it could work. The idea is turn 1 Spot an enemy transport drop the target and if and most certainly when the enemy comes onto the board next turn "Go to ground with Camo Cloaks." Thou it is a bit of a use of the wording in the rule book. The stealth rules state that it adds +1 to your cover save. This is like a last ditch save for your scouts. IF your getting hit with any weapon AP 4^ it is almost better to go to ground if your a 5 man team. If your going to lose scouts due to AP 4 weapons especially heavy bolters which you wouldn't be getting to much of a save and losing 3 models in a 5 man squad its better to lose a turn then lose a squad. And the only way this is possible is with camo cloaks. It is investing in the unit to improve the unit.

 

I agree full with GC on the fact that if your not using cloaks effectively you will be burned for not having the models in place of. This is the situation where you could and would use them effectively. Any situation where there is 3 pieces of cover 6" close to one another scouts can use this as Leap frog tactics to take cover and most commonly gain 3+ cover saves like marines. Dollar compared to dollar scouts are better in cover than Marines. This is only due to the bonus stealth. 1 point of difference means a cover save that is annoying to enemies, soaks up fire and creates distance as an ally for scouts.

 

So Thou GC is correct that if your spending 130 points in a game to field camo cloaks you need to know when to use it and when to not. I just been playing with the cloaks recently and found some dirty Go to ground movements. Less of a suicide and more of a HIT and hide move. This can also be aided with GC suggest Combat tactics where you deploy 18" away from enemy in front of cover and take a wound fall back into that cover and regroup. additionally nasty.

 

Also a random point ... Telion has a BS of 6 meaning he has a re-roll of a failed hit. This isn't as great of a find but wasn't mentioned above. If your have a bad roll of snake eyes you can re-roll hoping for a 6. It does apply to the model that Telion passes his BS skill towards. It can happen and as GC said it is applying rules to be helpful.

 

Last note is that when ever you run for an objective it is better to plan that it could happens before the game starts. Place objectives at the beginning of the game near cover or at least 3 " close to one objective insures those plots are able to bonus with the cloaked advantage. I would always suggest placing objective out of cover but near cover is useful for a scout army. This is just from my little experience so far.

 

Again thank for all of the above previous posts as well GC for the initially posting this. I wouldn't have started a 10th company with out it.

[greatcrusade08]

I been playing a few games recently with my Scout army. There is a few things still left in this thread that we could possibly push out. SO NECRO if you must.

 

The first point dug up from the grave is Combat Squads. I wasn't able to see in the C:SM where you can't split a squad and put one of these units in a Storm. The issue draws mainly because I been using full units to always leave me the option at the beginning of the game to possibly split or keep them together. I know that for many cases the codex's differ. Example Drop pods in the New BA dex only allows 10 models. Striking difference from the Standard dex which allows 12. I am only suggesting that the Valina marines may have this option still open to them since they lack special chapter rules.

 

I dont have the rulebook (it wont be in the dex) with me, but all units can combat squad and half ride in a transport.. its the benefit of taking razorbacks with tactical squads.

What they cant do is outflank whilst embarked since the squad has to outflank as a whole ten man unit.

 

Second point is that of Camo Cloaks.

 

I been running a large number of Camo Cloaks in my army and been playing aggressive in the first few turns of the Dawn of war Missions. Most recently I used about 4 combat squads and removed most of my enemies units on the first turn. This was achieved by using rules and camo cloaks.

 

Telion has an acute Sense so there is almost no need to set him in infiltrate. He will with his squad notice enemies from a range and be able to most likely fire. The next note is that If you do set a ML with 4 other scouts they will be 18 -12 inches in the front of the enemy army and be in the eye of the storm. It is a risky move to shove a unit out here but for scouts it could work. The idea is turn 1 Spot an enemy transport drop the target and if and most certainly when the enemy comes onto the board next turn "Go to ground with Camo Cloaks." Thou it is a bit of a use of the wording in the rule book. The stealth rules state that it adds +1 to your cover save. This is like a last ditch save for your scouts. IF your getting hit with any weapon AP 4^ it is almost better to go to ground if your a 5 man team. If your going to lose scouts due to AP 4 weapons especially heavy bolters which you wouldn't be getting to much of a save and losing 3 models in a 5 man squad its better to lose a turn then lose a squad. And the only way this is possible is with camo cloaks. It is investing in the unit to improve the unit.

This point is very much open to debate and really down to whoever uses them.. one of my old tenets was keep them cheap, so i only ever put cloaks on units that need them, basically telions unit as thier cost makes them more valuable.

3 points a model doesnt sound like much, but over four units and you could buy another ten man squad.. if you want saves stick them in cover, sure with camo cloaks and go to ground they will be harder to kill, but flame weapons and close combat ignore cover, a good general will take them down regardless.

Let a suicide unit be as cheap as possible, otherwise your giving valuable points away.

 

I agree full with GC on the fact that if your not using cloaks effectively you will be burned for not having the models in place of. This is the situation where you could and would use them effectively. Any situation where there is 3 pieces of cover 6" close to one another scouts can use this as Leap frog tactics to take cover and most commonly gain 3+ cover saves like marines. Dollar compared to dollar scouts are better in cover than Marines. This is only due to the bonus stealth. 1 point of difference means a cover save that is annoying to enemies, soaks up fire and creates distance as an ally for scouts.

In some situations scouts with cloaks work great in cover, but cover also works against you in certain circumstances.. it also blocks LOS.

There is also no gaurantee your terrain rolls will get you the 6's you need to 'leap frog'.

Im not against cloaks but you need to know what your doing with them.. if your getting a 2+ or 3+ save the enemy will likely either send heavy flamers your way (no save at all) or assault you.

snipers have the advantage of range, meaning that you can negate assaults and the low range of heavy flamers long enough to deal with them.

 

Basically im saying put them on snipers but dont worry about the little guys.. keep them cheap and casualites wont matter as much

 

Again thank for all of the above previous posts as well GC for the initially posting this. I wouldn't have started a 10th company with out it.

thanks mate, always nice to know im appreciated.. despite not being a huge fan of cloaks its good that someone has a viable tactic for them, id definately like to hear how you progress with them.